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Help improving?

WinterShorts

The best NEOH Yoshi
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
1,777
Location
Akron
NNID
Jelwshuman
3DS FC
4382-2513-9345
1. The vast majority of the time (and by vast I mean like 98% of the time), battling CPUs is never the way to practice. CPUs do two things wrong for practicing:
-They have a lot of inhuman things that you would not normally see against someone, like perfect shielding extremely consistently, not running, etc.
-They stick to one specific playstyle / they never change anything they do in response to what you're doing, which is bad because you want to play / have knowledge of every playstyle you can think of. I see that you played a CPU Yoshi, for example. There are a couple variants of playstyles that yoshi player could be. They could be playing super defensive and throw out a lot of eggs or have good spacing, but then find the right opportunity to strike. Or, like me, they could be super aggressive, all around your face, using yoshi's command grab, b-reversing it, and throwing out a lot of attacks with good frame data like his nair (which hits on frame 3 btw), up-air (which also his on frame 3 btw), and a foward-air with a big hitbox which could spike you at anytime.

You could apply that to any character you will find. Fox, another example, has a huge punish game, so there could be Fox players who play to bait out your attacks and then find an opening to combo, or be super aggressive and use Fox's amazing frame data. Or even a fox with a super defensive playstyle. Again, you could apply this to any character in the game. It's all about what they do with the character and is something to keep note of.

2. You're taunting and tea-bagging. On a computer. If you truly cared about improving, then you wouldn't do that in the first place. Time like that would need to be spent on focusing on the game and what your opponent does.

3. I also see a lot of spotdodges, which can come off as predictable once your opponent knows you're doing it. Lemme give you an example as to why that could be bad. My friend, whose smash tag goes by the name of H-man, is an extremely good player who has a great Mario. He actually told me a Mario secret after a couple of games. Mario players go for a lot of grabs during the beginning of the game, because this is how Mario players usually get their combos off. It's also how they condition their opponent to spotdodge a lot, because that alone will counter grab. If they know you're doing this more often, Mario players can come to you expecting a spotdodge, you do said spotdodge, and they charge an up-smash right where you're at.

I mean stuff like the above can apply to anything to do too much of. Tend to shield a lot? they'll go for a grab. Tend to roll? They will for sure read it and knock you off. Go for the kirby suicide? They're totally not going to approach you and fall for it. Do anything near the center of the stage? They'll run away from it and properly punish (I see that a lot within good players because they don't have to commit to an option they can lose like shield or spotdodge). Dash attack much? Jump over it and punish properly. Pretty much anything in the game of smash can be beaten by an option you most likely have.

I'm typically the guy who sucks at explaining thins so i'm here to practice this and give you advice. I hope this helps :)
 

ISuckAtSmash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
9
Location
USA, Maryland
NNID
TridentGameplay
I have to admit. This helped. You seem quite good at this game, and I feel like I'd like you to train me a bit. May I have your nnid?
Also, the teabagging and taunts were simply because this was gonna be uploaded. No other reason.
I'd LOVE to try doing doubles with you (for fun!)
One more thing, I hate scummy kirby's that go for kirbycides, personally, I don't do that much at all.
Anyway, going back to my first point, may I have your nnid, so i can practice with you?
Thank you for your input!
:kirby:
Edit: Fixed grammar
 
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WinterShorts

The best NEOH Yoshi
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
1,777
Location
Akron
NNID
Jelwshuman
3DS FC
4382-2513-9345
I have to admit. This helped. You seem quite good at this game, and I feel like I'd like you to train me a bit. May I have your nnid?
Also, the teabagging and taunts were simply because this was gonna be uploaded. No other reason.
I'd LOVE to try doing doubles with you (for fun!)
One more thing, I hate scummy kirby's that go for kirbycides, personally, I don't do that much at all.
Anyway, going back to my first point, may I have your nnid, so i can practice with you?
Thank you for your input!
:kirby:
Edit: Fixed grammar
Sure.

NNID is Jelwshuman. I may not be active on smashboards all the time but i'm getting back to the site a little more I think.
 

HYP3R

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
1,487
I'm a Kirby main as well so I might be able to help you a little bit. Here are a couple things I noticed...

You want to save Kirby's down air for punishing laggy moves. Throwing it out all the time in neutral is not safe against shield and Kirby is extremely vulnerable after he lands.
You also want to save your smash attacks for higher percents when you know it will kill. Kirby's smashes are all really powerful and can even kill at like 90% sometimes. If you use them all the time it will be staled and the kill power will be significantly reduced, you may even be forced to kill with Up Throw at around 130%. This is all depending on weight and rage of course, but the point is to save your smash attacks for when it counts.

Other than that there isn't much else I can say, it would be a lot easier for me to give advice if I saw a match against a real opponent.
 

ISuckAtSmash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
9
Location
USA, Maryland
NNID
TridentGameplay
Alrighty. Ill go online soon
(but i dont wanna **** up my for glory records)


Edit: If it appears that I SUCK during the match, that is due to slow wifi.
Edit 2: It appears that I cannot go into online smash, but I will keep trying.
Final edit: I give up, it won't work. Maybe it will tomorrow.
 
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SosaN1K

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
4
Wanna spar against me I'm new to the smash scene and need a sparring partner?
I main Diddy Kong and Kirby
 
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SosaN1K

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
4
I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not but my NNID is hyperwisp
Nah I wasn't but I'll still spar with you I need a lot of work on my Diddy and my Kirby lol I'd be happy to train spar anytime even though I know I'm gonna try my butt whooped but I'll add you now
 

KirbCider

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Messages
688
Location
East Texas
There's honestly dozens of ways to improve. The most important is to just practice daily/whenever you can. Other than that...

1. As WinterShorts WinterShorts has already stated CPUs aren't really the best way to practice. They're good for certain things like getting certain combos down or practicing techs in your spare time; however they will ultimately give you bad habits if you rely on them.

CPUs really don't act like human players who will know dozens of techs, combos, mix-ups, and especially know how to adapt.

2. There's dozens of videos and guides on multiple characters. Take the time to read or watch these guides or even watch actual matches of said characters. You'll probably discover something you have never known or see something you didn't even consider was possible. Don't focus on your own mains either, as it would be beneficial to know other characters strengths and weaknesses as well. You'll have to realize what you can take advantage of and what you can't as there's a lot of "Safe" and "Unsafe" options.

3. Work on your faults. A lot of us have bad habits that we may not even realize until we watch a replay we may have saved or until someone points it out for us. Never be afraid to share your replays here and ask for advice. Everyone here is willing to help out.

4. Seriously, just practice. You can read up on so many guides or watch videos day and night, but unless you put in the physical effort and time to practice you won't get very far. We all start somewhere and we improve over-time even if we don't see any improvement. SmashBoards can be your greatest tool. We have character specific threads with vast information, dozens of members willing to help you (especially if you seek advice), and we even have a Thread where you can find opponents to play.

Take advantage of everything you can find, because it can and will help you out in the long run rather than just winging it.
 
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Lunanix

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
71
Location
Holomdrum
NNID
lunanix
Just to further emphasis what the other people are saying,

One of the best ways to improve on Smash outside of practice is watching videos, this includes content from top players (in your case Kirby players), tutorial channels such as Beefy Smash Doods, My Smash Corner etc, and watching Tournaments both Live stream and vods (of course it really doesn't matter when you watch it as long as you do. Live streams do tend to help you immerse yourself into the tournament more, or in my opinion it does). Also Smashboards has guides for most Characters in Melee and Smash 4, read them and you can learn a ton about your characters, there is some really useful stuff in there.

You can learn a ton from doing this, even just the simple stuff like combos and strings. You can see what players go for out of certain options etc and then incorporate that into your own gameplay.

Practising is a given, you have to practice. Whether that is CPU, For Glory, Anthers Ladder, LAN with your Friends. All of this helps, but of course there are pros and cons to each.

CPU's don't act like humans, they are programmed to do certain actions based on certain events. This becomes very easy to understand over time and really only helps you develop your own ability to move and character understanding. It does however allow you to test some combos since lvl9 CPU tend to be able to air dodge or perfect shield probably every time. Other than that its not generally a good idea to practice on CPU.

For Glory gets a lot of backlash, but at the end of the day you are playing against real people. This will help you understand what options real humans go for instead of learning patterns of CPU's, this does however limit your practice to Omega and Final Destination stages whilst also and quite commonly introducing lag which can make things usually very safe into extremely unsafe options.

Anthersladder (Or Smashladder) over comes the FG issue, allowing you to play other users in a more competitive environment using legal stages. It also allows you to actually communicate with your opponent which is really useful since you can ask how they found your play and ask for advice (Or even learn to dish out advice since if you can understand how your opponents are going wrong you can better yourself during game). You get to play a real variety of characters as well as players throughout the world assuming they have good enough connection. Again though this comes with its flaws mostly consisting of Lag since its online play but mostly its just a real pain to set up. Since you have to go in and out of online mode to add players. Get over that and you can really make the most out of Anthers as its a really useful tool.

LANing with your friends and other local Smash players. This means you can practice offline as well as tailor your issues with the other players on a more human to human basis. This is your best choice of practice since you get a bit of everything you need for your practice. Downsides include travel, time, money and player availability. It can cost a lot to travel to friends etc to play, it also takes alot of time but it can really benefit you. Although don't think that is be all and end all, since you will learn that player and may play well against them but you do need a variety of players. This is where tournaments come in.

Tournaments are a great way to play and honestly imo one of the best and most enjoyable ways. You get to meet loads of players who enjoy playing smash just as much as you do yourself as well you get to meet players who are potentially better and some who are extremely knowledgeable about the game. Most players are willing to help those who demonstrate there efforts and really enjoy playing and learning. It tends to cost a lot but its a full day (or more) of pure smash!

Last but not least one of the MOST important parts to improving is remembering that your improving yourself. Watch your own replays(there is a really good tool built into the game itself to save and review game play. Ask how you played during sets and what you can do to improve, and focus on your issues and take in what people say about you. You might not always like what people are saying but at the end of the day if someone is saying your doing something wrong you can take that away and learn from it, come back and be a stronger player than you were before.

I guess one last thing would be, always remember that this is a game and to have fun. I know a lot of players that try to improve so much and get to competitive that they lose all love for the game which in turn stop them practising and improving. If you feel frustrated with the game, turn it off, take a break and come back and try and remember the fun things about this game and remember why you love to play etc. even if you play characters you think are bad, or you don't even know how to play. You'd be surprised how much it helps.

Otherwise good luck, remember to have fun and get practising!
 
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Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
Forget about your FG records. Those don't mean ****. It's not because FG is a bad place to learn how to play and improve. Honestly, it's not a bad place at all. The downside of it is a hit-and-miss when it comes to finding someone good or bad, as well as the fact that you never have platforms. However, FG is still a good place to go to, especially when it comes to convenience. Other than that, I really don't need to repeat the whole, "CPUs are bad for you."

I'm all about mentality. That's the most important aspect in anything you do. Your username should not be taken seriously, and you shouldn't think of yourself that way. All you're doing is perpetuating the mentality that you're a poor player at Sm4sh. Beliefs affect the way people behave and act, so I recommend you only think of, "ISuckAtSmash" jokingly. There's nothing wrong with admitting that your strategies are poor, just don't dwell on the idea that you'll never be good. It's not that you suck, it's that your strategies need to be changed.

You may or may not have heard of something called a meta-game. (Everything is going meta these days. Meta-narratives, meta-cognition, meta-analysis, &c. Quite honestly, it's meta-annoying.) So, meta-game is this fancy sounding word that really just means, "You performed x. It didn't work because your opponent performed y. Try z next time." What does that mean? Well, it means whatever the hell you want it to mean. Variables are just placeholders. Make what you will of what meta-game means. So let's just replace those variables with something a little more meaningful.

"You performed a jab. It didn't work because your opponent blocked it. Try grabbing next time." See? Of course, that won't always work because your opponent could dodge next time if you try to block, but that's where jabbing would help because your opponent cannot dodge consecutive hits. (That's another example of meta-gaming, by the way.) Some things become the staple of your character and may remain that way for a long time. As a Samus main, it's wise of me to do a jab once if I'm close. Because Samus' jab is poor, I'll only perform it once. If my opponent blocks, I'll move away. If my opponent doesn't block, well, I'll still move away or possibly do another jab. Essentially, what I'm doing is poking. I'm trying to determine some kind of effect my opponent will do.

Really, what it all comes down to is learning and having a positive attitude. If you can focus on those aspects and understand what your opponent is doing, you'll most likely perform better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ISuckAtSmash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
9
Location
USA, Maryland
NNID
TridentGameplay
Thank you. Honestly, my username was taken seriously, I wanted people to know that I am unworthy
(I am a HUGE pessimist.)
But thank you for your input. Ill try to stay positive, and change up my strategy.
:D
 

SosaN1K

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
4
Thank you. Honestly, my username was taken seriously, I wanted people to know that I am unworthy
(I am a HUGE pessimist.)
But thank you for your input. Ill try to stay positive, and change up my strategy.
:D
Yo add me on Wii U my NNID IS: N1KSoSa I suck at smash to lol so maybe we learn with each other
 

WinterShorts

The best NEOH Yoshi
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
1,777
Location
Akron
NNID
Jelwshuman
3DS FC
4382-2513-9345
Just to further emphasis what the other people are saying,

One of the best ways to improve on Smash outside of practice is watching videos, this includes content from top players (in your case Kirby players), tutorial channels such as Beefy Smash Doods, My Smash Corner etc, and watching Tournaments both Live stream and vods (of course it really doesn't matter when you watch it as long as you do. Live streams do tend to help you immerse yourself into the tournament more, or in my opinion it does). Also Smashboards has guides for most Characters in Melee and Smash 4, read them and you can learn a ton about your characters, there is some really useful stuff in there.

You can learn a ton from doing this, even just the simple stuff like combos and strings. You can see what players go for out of certain options etc and then incorporate that into your own gameplay.

Practising is a given, you have to practice. Whether that is CPU, For Glory, Anthers Ladder, LAN with your Friends. All of this helps, but of course there are pros and cons to each.

CPU's don't act like humans, they are programmed to do certain actions based on certain events. This becomes very easy to understand over time and really only helps you develop your own ability to move and character understanding. It does however allow you to test some combos since lvl9 CPU tend to be able to air dodge or perfect shield probably every time. Other than that its not generally a good idea to practice on CPU.

For Glory gets a lot of backlash, but at the end of the day you are playing against real people. This will help you understand what options real humans go for instead of learning patterns of CPU's, this does however limit your practice to Omega and Final Destination stages whilst also and quite commonly introducing lag which can make things usually very safe into extremely unsafe options.

Anthersladder (Or Smashladder) over comes the FG issue, allowing you to play other users in a more competitive environment using legal stages. It also allows you to actually communicate with your opponent which is really useful since you can ask how they found your play and ask for advice (Or even learn to dish out advice since if you can understand how your opponents are going wrong you can better yourself during game). You get to play a real variety of characters as well as players throughout the world assuming they have good enough connection. Again though this comes with its flaws mostly consisting of Lag since its online play but mostly its just a real pain to set up. Since you have to go in and out of online mode to add players. Get over that and you can really make the most out of Anthers as its a really useful tool.

LANing with your friends and other local Smash players. This means you can practice offline as well as tailor your issues with the other players on a more human to human basis. This is your best choice of practice since you get a bit of everything you need for your practice. Downsides include travel, time, money and player availability. It can cost a lot to travel to friends etc to play, it also takes alot of time but it can really benefit you. Although don't think that is be all and end all, since you will learn that player and may play well against them but you do need a variety of players. This is where tournaments come in.

Tournaments are a great way to play and honestly imo one of the best and most enjoyable ways. You get to meet loads of players who enjoy playing smash just as much as you do yourself as well you get to meet players who are potentially better and some who are extremely knowledgeable about the game. Most players are willing to help those who demonstrate there efforts and really enjoy playing and learning. It tends to cost a lot but its a full day (or more) of pure smash!

Last but not least one of the MOST important parts to improving is remembering that your improving yourself. Watch your own replays(there is a really good tool built into the game itself to save and review game play. Ask how you played during sets and what you can do to improve, and focus on your issues and take in what people say about you. You might not always like what people are saying but at the end of the day if someone is saying your doing something wrong you can take that away and learn from it, come back and be a stronger player than you were before.

I guess one last thing would be, always remember that this is a game and to have fun. I know a lot of players that try to improve so much and get to competitive that they lose all love for the game which in turn stop them practising and improving. If you feel frustrated with the game, turn it off, take a break and come back and try and remember the fun things about this game and remember why you love to play etc. even if you play characters you think are bad, or you don't even know how to play. You'd be surprised how much it helps.

Otherwise good luck, remember to have fun and get practising!
Pre. Cise. Ly.

On that note, I will let you know there was a time when I went to a Michigan regional with from friends from my area. We all met top player Larry Lurr, we were talking, and I remember 2 things from him.

1. He said that since he mastered all the tech he can with his Fox, he said that a lot of his time for smash was watching the game instead and learning more playstyles, so I think that says a lot about the power of watching games.

2. I personally asked him later on about this, and I asked what would happen if you didn't do as well as you hoped in a specific tournament. This was in a regional so he also told me that people think they have to do well and that this is their big moment in their smash career, when in all truth, they should be taking the experience in and have a lot more focus on improving yourself than winning. I never challenged him to any games (I probably should've), but that I thought was incredible and very insightful wise words from a Smash god himself.

Gotta remember that fixing all the habits, learning playstyles, etc. is important to complete the goal: to improve.
 
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