Help finishing a fixed version of Summit

[Mccdbz5]

So I've been working on making a version of the Summit stage with a few others that is competitively viable, and have made some good progress. These are the changes I've made so far:

- The stage is frozen so that it does not progress through its hazards, though the background still changes
- Made the ice and platforms so that they're not slippery
- Made the platform on the bottom left not collapse
- Got rid of the clouds that occasionally pass through the stage
- Got rid of the ice berg that drops under the center block of ice
- Made the edges grab-able

I think that's about all the changes I and others have gotten done so far. Now here's where I am seeking help; I don't know how to push the center block of ice to the background, or lower the platforms a little bit. This is a video I made to show the stage, so you can see exactly what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxCboYCfUK4

At the 0:21 mark, that is where I drop through the middle block of ice. You'll see that rather than Donkey Kong overlapping the ice, he appears behind it. You'll see that I took out all of the collisions in the ice, but I just need that block of ice to be pushed back, so that the characters overlap it. Throughout the rest of the video, you'll see all of the other edits that have been made, like having the ice not be slippery. I would also like to lower the three platforms just a LITTLE bit. As they stand now, you have to use two full jumps to get on top of the platforms. I want to have them a little closer to the ground and see how that works. With that being said, is there someone who could possibly make these two edits, and help me complete this stage? I feel like it would be great to have a competitive version of Summit for Project: M that is still Summit; not a different stage or version to replace it. This is basically what I want the stage to look like:

Basically like that, but maybe with the bottom right platform a little higher (like at the height the left platform is at). If someone wants to take a crack at these edits, here is a download link to the stage:

http://www.mediafire.com/?17r9tmpiiyn0beh

And here's the .rel file it needs to work, in case someone wants to try it in game:

http://www.mediafire.com/?l52pba3xrpyvx3p

 

[hotdogturtle]

Your ideas are very similar to a concept that was made several years ago called Summit+. You may be able to look at that one for inspiration/help or use it as a base (don't bump the thread though, it's like years old lol).

If you want to edit your stage from scratch, I believe that you'll have to follow a basic guide to vertex editing in order to edit the actual 3D model of the stage. I don't know of any way that will let you remove just a chunk of the stage that's connected to other parts.

 

[Mccdbz5]

Yeah that's actually where I drew my "inspiration" per say haha. But if you look at the video I posted, I already have everything else finished, except for lowering the platforms and pushing the middle back. I'm sure lowering the platforms isn't too difficult. And I'm not exactly trying the remove that chunk of the stage. If you look at this clip, you'll see that someone has done what I'm trying to do already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_wOCPM6HmE

This is actually from AmericanHobo3 (one of the guys who made the version you linked me to). If you go to the 0:08 mark, you'll see that when the Ice Climbers on the left run right, they pass through the middle of the stage without overlapping the chunk of ice in the middle because it's pushed back, as if it's part of the background. If you look at the video I posted, that's the problem I'm having. I got rid of the collisions, but I just don't know how to push the middle ice block back like AmericanHobo3 did. I asked him about it in the video, and he said the middle part has to be pushed back on the Z-Axis. Now I've tried learning how to do that exactly, and let's just say I haven't done so well...Haha

 

[Kati]

Why not use summit+ as a base and reapply all of the changes you managed by yourself? There's a good chance that you could extract hobo's modeldata for the main stage and import it into your own. Also what version of brawlbox are you using? I find 0.67 allows for the easiest editing of polygons and models in regards to their position and size.

 

[Mccdbz5]

I tried doing that, but the problem is that that version of Summit that was created was used with the freezing code that was used in Brawl+. I don't know how to implement that code to Project: M stages, and don't know how to edit it from the stage he had it at. And I believe I'm using the newest version of BrawlBox. Honestly, my stage hacking know-how is very limited. I'm not very good at this stuff, which is part of the reason why I'm asking for help haha.

 

[Kati]

Yeah I wouldn't bother with the freezing code because then you would have a hard time convincing others to play your stage. How did you go about preventing your version from moving?

*edit*

I just imported frozenhobo's model into your version. I'll test it tomorrow. If you want to try it yourself in the meantime, replace your stage's modeldata[2] with his model data[1]

 

[Mccdbz5]

Yeah exactly. And a guy on another forum did that part. The stage isn't actually frozen. If you watch the video I posted, you'll see the background change as it does in the normal version of the stage. We just managed to keep the stage from progressing through its normal hazards and stage changes. And that sounds great! If you wanna just test it out tomorrow and let me know, that works. Just make sure you apply that .rel file I posted or the stage won't work. I appreciate the help though.

Edit: I just tried it out, and the stage came out all discombobulated. Like the stage was crooked and half sideways. I can make a video of it and show you if you want. Or you could try it out yourself and let me know if I did anything wrong.

 

[Kati]

Yeah that sounds like what would happen when the freezing code wasn't applied to summit+. I'll try importing the polygon itself rather than the whole model.

 

[Mccdbz5]

Okay that sounds good. Let me know how it turns out.

 

[Tuvillo]

To be honest, I quite enjoy this one.

 

[Mccdbz5]

There's nothing wrong with that one, but it's not the actual Summit stage. I wanted a competitive version of the stage, not an entirely different version.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Gonna be honest, the random hazards are dumb the the slippery floor is really fun to mess around with in Melee physics. Too bad nobody ever removes the hazards without the slide.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

lol, I agree with the slippery ice physics being awesome combined with melee physics, but people will pee their pants and cry if you try to include things that are new. Like, case and point, PS2 doesn't transform. At all.

 

[The_NZA]

Anyone want to suggest brstm's for this stage?
Has to be phendara drifts from metroid prime, and probably the metroid metal version as well.

 

[Kati]

Phendrana is far too sacred for smash. All you need is Ice Station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUl0thIKO4

http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/25488

http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/27600

 

[Mccdbz5]

There a bunch of tracks that are great for this stage. These are the ones I use:

Donkey Kong Country Returns: Boulder Roller
http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/5679

Donkey Kong Country: Ice Cave Chant
http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/2642

Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest In a Snow Bound Land
http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/2759

Sonic Unleashed: Holoska - Cool Edge Day
http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/1071

Snowboard Kids 2: Ice Land
http://www.brawlcustommusic.com/11086

 

[Tuvillo]

Cool Cool Mountain, SM64 =D

 

[Kati]

Progress! Should have pictures or the stage itself up soon; however, imo, the platforms are far too high, did you put them up there? if so, what method did you use?

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?0eu4d2vl2fbdk#ef4u9si43f44097,grid

This link is supposed to show a gallery of pictures, but I can only get it to show one. Oh well. The middle of the platform will be put back obviously, but as you can see, I managed to push the frozen stone back.

I won't be uploading the stage itself for a while.

 

[Mccdbz5]

Sounds good! And no I didn't. That's actually where the platforms normally are. I haven't touched them. I actually wanted to lower them a bit but I don't know how to exactly.

 

[Kati]

omg you're right. Wth... I guess I played summit+ so much I forgot. I'll just study brawl+ until I can figure out how Hobo did it. Shouldn't be too hard now that I understand how he moved the stone.

 

[Meme]

I'm really looking forward to this stage... It already has good music with a few exceptions, and since Brawl was announced I wanted a good IC's stage but we got, well that.

On slippery physics, I think it would be nice to experiment with it but only on the platforms, for wavelanding+ice shenanigans.

Keep up the good work...

 

[The_NZA]

I love that idea by Meme. That would be AMAAZING and not too obnoxious.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Icy platforms only... Has that actually ever been tested on an attempted competitive stage? It sounds like something worth experimenting with.

 

[Kati]

A long time ago I downloaded a version of pokemon stadium 2 with a unique platform layout as well as background swap. The platforms were indeed icy, and two were slanted, which allowed for very easy wavelanding stuff. Brawl- has a permanent icy version of ps2, though the floor is also icy, but this could be edited very easily if someone is curious enough.

 

[Mccdbz5]

I tried having the platforms icy before, but honestly it ruins the stage in my opinion. If you're just trying to play for fun, then icy platforms are fine. But I mostly play in the competitive scene, so playing on it competitively with icy platforms just messes you up and acts as an annoying occurrence.

 

[Tuvillo]

B-but, it makes the Ice Climbers better!

 

[Mccdbz5]

Haha I bet it does! But so did you ever make any more progress on the edits Kati?

 

[The_NZA]

Mccdbz5, How are you so sure it hinders competitive play. Surely the amazing wavelanding possibilities opens up some competitive options. And if summit is already similar to another stage in platform lay out (lets say a battlefield), then it almost serves as a good counter option, and people have the choice to pick a stage with that layout without icy platforms and with icy platforms.

 

[Mccdbz5]

I understand what you are saying. It definitely makes it unique. It's just something you would have to try for yourself. I just feel like the sliding messes people up more than it helps them because it's an unnatural occurrence. Some friends and I use to play on it icy before I learned that you could make the platforms normal, and no body really cared for it. Maybe when these other edits get done, we can make two versions or something.

 

[Kati]

The rock has been pushed back. I haven't had the time to shrink the stage, so I am presenting an alternative: the top platform has been deleted. The two platforms on either side are still a tad too high, but this version is playable, and illustrates a potential direction for the stage.

Direct link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?qg9w4qr65o1di7x

BV:
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/Bra...All#ByUserID=3569&Moderated=All&Moderated=All

 

[Mccdbz5]

I like it so far! Although I would like the top platform to be implemented back in at some point. It just feels like something's missing without it haha. But is it possible to push the rock back a little more? I just tried it and it seemed like half of the character was still appearing behind it. If not it's not a big deal.

 

[Kati]

A tincy bit does clip characters; however, I didn't notice anything, aaaand, pushing it any further will expose the cracks and you'll see the sky....

Think of the platform layout like spear pillar or wario ware or kongo jungle 64.

 

[Mccdbz5]

Oh okay. Well it's fine then. Yeah it's not very noticeable at all, but I just thought if it was possible, why not? Haha but I appreciate you fixing that. I look forward to when you're able to lower the platforms. I think once this stage is completely finished, it would be a nice addition to the other Project: M stages.

 

[The_NZA]

I don't really want to make you put in more work, but I think I and a lot of people would love it if this stage had two versions, one with Icy platforms. If it's possible to affect how icy the platforms can be, maybe there's a perfect number out there that'll make it useful but not obnoxious.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Ice doesn't mess you up because it's random or anything, it's just because you normally play on stages without it but I'm more than happy to learn a bit.

The way the stage is aesthetically laid out doesn't it make more sense to have the ground icy and the platforms solid?

 

[Kati]

lol I used to play with a guy who refused to play on fountain of dreams because it was slippery... supposedly... he even avoided in project M because he thought the pmbr had somehow replicated the slippery floor.... It was very difficult convincing him otherwise.

Anyways, I'm going to test a shorter version, with luck tonight, but at the very least, tomorrow. I was wondering what people thought of summit's horizontal dimensions. I might try expanding it to the sides ever so slightly (no larger than battlefield or Dreamland).

****

I successfully shrunk it. Pictures and thoughts and hopefully a tutorial tomorrow.

***
Zelda standing on the platform's collision which has not been moved:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?raj9x2m6pkhl4c8

frontal view:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2v6v0pc03adv#qz7iazi9x3npx4f

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2v6v0pc03adv#1o9yelbaf64a9ep

The stage has to be both shrunk and lowered in order to connect to the rest of the mountain. Other people should try shrinking the stage so that we can come to a faster conclusion as to what the best height is.
1. Open the stage with brawlbox v0.67 or a newer version.
2. Click on the plus sign beside "modeldata 2." You should see three folders appear.
3. Click on the plus sign beside the folder in the middle labelled "AnmChr(NW4R)."
4. open stgice00. A large list should appear, with little white boxes and question marks beside each label.
5. Click on Stgice00, you should see a 3x3 grid.

The first row deals with the scale of the model, and should be currently set to 1, 1, 1. The bottom row deals with its position in space. Change the Y values for "scale" and "translation" to values such as : 0.85, -10.

The picture shown above have the model set to 0.9, but with no change to its vertical position.

I think we can adopt the solution that summit+ used for the top platform, but first, we should figure out the ideal height for the two side platforms.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm not a fan of the stair-step platform layout. An idea I put on SmashMods got favorable reaction.

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-5141-post-91302.html#pid91302

Non-ice main stage, icy platforms.

 

[Mccdbz5]

I actually like the platform layout of Summit because its layout is like no other stage. I'm not a big fan of laying it out like Battlefield and most of the other stages. And icy platforms, again, is something I don't want. Like I said before, maybe at some point we can make two versions of the stage, but for right now, I just want to finish this version haha.

I successfully shrunk it. Pictures and thoughts and hopefully a tutorial tomorrow.

***
Zelda standing on the platform's collision which has not been moved:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?raj9x2m6pkhl4c8

frontal view:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2v6v0pc03adv#qz7iazi9x3npx4f

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?d2v6v0pc03adv#1o9yelbaf64a9ep

The stage has to be both shrunk and lowered in order to connect to the rest of the mountain. Other people should try shrinking the stage so that we can come to a faster conclusion as to what the best height is.
1. Open the stage with brawlbox v0.67 or a newer version.
2. Click on the plus sign beside "modeldata 2." You should see three folders appear.
3. Click on the plus sign beside the folder in the middle labelled "AnmChr(NW4R)."
4. open stgice00. A large list should appear, with little white boxes and question marks beside each label.
5. Click on Stgice00, you should see a 3x3 grid.

The first row deals with the scale of the model, and should be currently set to 1, 1, 1. The bottom row deals with its position in space. Change the Y values for "scale" and "translation" to values such as : 0.85, -10.

The picture shown above have the model set to 0.9, but with no change to its vertical position.

I think we can adopt the solution that summit+ used for the top platform, but first, we should figure out the ideal height for the two side platforms.

This should be a good reference:

I don't think the platforms need to be lowered all that much. I think Hobo's platform layout in this picture would work well, although I would move the bottom right platform in this picture a little higher because larger characters like Donkey Kong and Bowser will poke through the bottom of the platform.

 

[Kati]

Yeah, if it were up to me, no platform would ever clip with Ganon's head (warioware...) I am going to try to move the top platform further to the right/centre so as not to overlap with the side paltforms.

 

[Mccdbz5]

Okay, that sounds good! Just post the results when you have them.