Help! Cant chain grab falco!!

[JJnew]

this is the deal, we both play with every weapon skills, mind game, everything invented on the melee. yet one of my strongest weapons agains a shfflaser falco is the chain grab from 0% to 60+%(ofcourse with utilt and smash) but seems like on between 18+% I can't keep grabbing, he DI up and just inside me if I try to grab I get shined and uaired. I have tried DD and JCG (like I usually do with everyone I chain grab) but before getting to the part of grab I get shined.

When I ask him how he do it he tells me he DI up and just hit shine once on the right timming... (thats how he can do the shine uair combo so fast).

I have tried get one of the range of the shine but still get hit... can anyone help me?

btw can anyone tell me whats the best way to avoid lasers,

I have tried:

run/dash attack, yet he shoot lasers low so I get stopped, and everytime I manage to get under some lasers I miss the dash atack, since he moves both foward and backwards (really hard to read, yet working on it) and after I miss a dash attack I get a 50%+ combo from him... sad.

timming the power shield so I reflect lasers, this one is really hard, I manage to return 1/4 of the lasers yet is no use, I have also tried to combine it with some sort of combo or grab since it stops falco. If I fail to return it I get grabbed...

Jump high so lasers wont hit me, no use, he walk/WD backwards Fsmash after I land hitting (have to hit since if I dont I get lasered)

Stand and shieldgrab, no use also, I get grabbed before I can shieldgrab.

utilting, havent tried this alot since he shoot his lasers while moving foward and at decent close range (and if Im not shielding) he start with his nair, dair,jab, shine, combos. this is also why I cant use dtilt JCG since if he sees me crouching he will jump on the right range so the dtilt wont hit.

Contering (Down B) hmm havent even tryied of this one, yet I recall seeing someone trying it and lasers made marth turn around and hit the counter to the other side.

All I can do Is combining all these and after I break his pace (somehow)keep preasuring with Grabs, Tech chasing, DD, ftilt

 

[Gian]

About the grab, just utilt him and u wont get shined.

and the lasers use counter it is not bad if u use it on the right time.. look its me

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cDKMJP-Sv6g

 

[Lokii]

You can chaingrab falco from like...0-28 without even dashing..just change directions...at like 38 percent he can DI up and shine out of the chainthrow, so once you see him DIing up at around 35 percent, uptilt and regrab, or if he's in tipper range, fsmash...i doubt you can DI up and shine out of marth's chaingrab as early as 18 percent...

If you're actually jumping over the laserz and he's close enough to WD back Fsmash, you should easily be close enough to Fair lcancel grab...your fair has more range that the fsmash... And if he tries to get you w/ the fsmash right after your fair, just lcancel grab. Grabs out-prioritize even smashes, or you could lcancel into dtilt and use the IASA frames and grab him in the dtilt's stun.

You shouldn't really be uptilting an approaching falco, unless he's coming from above you. you're better off trying to shieldgrab. Because marth is so tall, shuffling against him w/ falco usually ends up in hitting higher up on the shield, which allows the marth to shieldgrab...


hope this helped

 

[Marthmaster92]

You can chaingrab falco from like...0-28 without even dashing..

that's usually what i do. i get them to about that percentage, then give an up-tilt to a f-smash. and if you sweet-spot the smash, that'll give you a pretty nice advantage!

also, don't forget that after the forward-smash, you can also shffl some f-airs to get him off the stage.

 

[FrostByte]

Marth's tremendous grab range can put a lot of pressure on space animals. When you utilt at lower %, it will send them forward. From my experience, most falco players don't want to get regrabbed, so they'll roll away from you.

If falco gets too high to be regrabbed, he'll be open to fair combos and will most likely be DI-ing towards you. If they work out your game, hit them with a nair.

Another way of keeping falco under pressure is to fsmash or ftilt them when they start their laser animation. IMO, space animals are the most boring of Marth's matchups. It's all rinse and repeat.

 

[JJnew]

Thanks everyone specially loki for your adice they seems pretty intresting yet, belive me when I tell you he CAN get out of chain grab at 18% he seems to fall just inside me... and Marth grab has a pretty big range infront of marth, yet he lacks of middle and backward grabs range like... peach and shiek. if they fall in middle the only way to grab him is to DD and regrabm yet he found a way to make it imposible. and I have tried to stand and grab on both ways, but I keep missing both of them (ofcourse sometimes I manage to grab them by standing but its because I belive he missed his DI).

utilt at 18% wont hit and if does it will send him flying away, outside your range.

 

[Lokii]

ohh, jj i see what you mean...

if he does that you have to do a DD grab just like you said...it's not really impossible..you just have to be really fast. a pivot grab

 

[Shai Hulud]

ohh, jj i see what you mean...

if he does that you have to do a DD grab just like you said...it's not really impossible..you just have to be really fast. a pivot grab

I don't think you can grab him with a pivot grab at 18%. But I didn't think Marth needed to pivot grab before 28%... If it looks like the Falco is not DIing you grab in the same direction.

 

[Lokii]

what if the falco is DIing up and a little back? like inside of marth...

iuno, i've played falco's as marth who have done this too...where it seems like they haven't DIed, so you grab in the same direction...but falco ends up somewhat inside of you and grabbing in either direction won't do anything

 

[JJnew]

is just as you say Lokii, he does DI inside me (up and lil back) I have tried to look backwards and grab but It also misses, its like a small spot where marth can't grab.

He (falco user friend) told me he learned it while playing against chain grabber fox users. he does the same tactic to get out of fox chain grab. Yet fox can utilt/usmash to build up damage and marth can only u tilt, that its about 10% and maybe do a tech chasing... Thats the best idea I can come up with... since utilting after uthrow at low % will send away falco.

Oh btw I dont play ALOT against this friend so maybe there IS a way to do it faster so I dont get shined... but Im pretty sure thats the fastest I can do a DD JCG.

btw wouldnt a pivoting grab and DD JCG have same delay? I had never though of pivoting grab, but I belive since Im hiting JCG right after I hit the other side of the DD Im probably doing a pivoting grab without noticing (not sure). ( I do the JCG with Y and Z buttons at same time, not like most of my friends that press up and Z, so It wont add any delay while changing direccions on the joystick)

 

[Dark Sonic]

Try jabbing him and then grabbing him again after he lands. It's more effective than most people think. At that percent he'll be reset and will land right in front of you. The jab's ending lag should be over just before the end of his landing lag so you should be able to grab him before he is able to shine. I've tried it a few times and it seems to work rather well so give it a try.

 

[JJnew]

marth has one of the longest jab lags of the game, and it is also one of the less stunning, I really doubt it would work , yet I will try it, I appriciate your help Sonic