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Help against Long Range and Roy

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
As embarrassing as these vids are for all of the world to see, I needed them so I could get some help. I have Bad DI. I cant seem to DI away from things when I try. Im doing something wrong but not sure. Maybe you guys can help me on that as a bonus? DI is my biggest weakness.

And Here in these set of Vids I have no clue how to right Roy. Not knowing how to right Long Range people+ Bad DI+Zelda= >____<!!!!!!!! Help please? Thanks in advance for those that can take there time to help. I have the play list here. Just watch the ones where I use Zelda. I only won one fight out of all these vids I used Zelda............:embarrass

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2EDE5A72AFE61E5F
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
I saw one of the videos. Biggest problem I noticed is spacing. Zelda is NOT Peach, and shouldn't be that close to the enemy for the majority of the game EVER... Keep your distance, and make sure that Roy can't close with you. If you space right, Roy would do about 3% per attack to you, and you'd do 20% (kick). Not a bad trade, huh?
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
Ninja link's roy is pretty fast but if you noticed he uses his range against you as a defense. I don't play against Roy but I'm sure the DI works somewhat like Marths so here it is.

DI+Away from Aerial Combos. Depending on where you are at you may want to DI up+Away

DI Away from his forward throw. Remember his Sweetspot is inside his sword more.

If he hits you with a big hit and knocks you off, Aim for the upper right or upper left corners by holding Up+ or not accordingly. Like there were a few times he star K.O.'d you with forward smash. You don't want to hold up on those after.

Also if Roy is above like 40% don't Down+Throw unless the edge is close behind you for tech chasing. Don't upthrow either. He's kinda heavy but not heavy enough to land kicks in when he gets high like that. Just throw him off the nearest edge and either play with din's fire and explode it infront of him to send him back(Oppose to behind him which sends him toward the stage). Or time your kick as he approaches from above. And ledge hog if he's coming from below and roll into the stage. as he up+B's

Try fox-trotting away if range is your problem. As Marth approaches me with F-air spam it looks intimidating to run through as I'm sure you're experiencing with Roy. Fox trot away, avoiding the end of the sword. Fox trot back in with a shield. Analyze your opponent. Know what he likes to do. I noticed after l-canceled forward airs he did a few forward tilts. After your fox trot. Run back after the forward tilt, or after whatever move he has that has a bit of lag. And shield as you near him more than likely Zelda's run is so slow he can get another ground move. But if you shield it at this time that normally puts him at kicks length.

This tactic prolly work on only ninja link or pple who play like him. If you played against a roy who spams grabs. this wouldn't work as well. But since your approaching and Ninjalink was using aerials and tilts to keep you away. Running in and shielding after a laggy-ish move is your best bet. IF he start to grab, as you approach then think about another option, such as going back to your run in and kick. I noticed you did quite a bit of kicks in the air but they were punished cuz you can't l-cancle in the air. Remember Zelda who has potential in a split second to kick is feared. So Roy will hold his shield anytime you jump at him. Because it's ez to shield Zelda. (Do this when you expend him to shield your kick). after you jump try and hold your kick until you almost hit the ground.

1.) This gives you a chance to shield poke the bottom of his shield with a kick.

2.) Now you can follow up after your kick more safely whether it's shield, Naryu's love's priority, Spot dodge, Jab w/e.

3.)More than likely if he's smart he'll keep shielding til the kick comes. Just remember your option. Analyze how you were getting punished.

Also he read you like a book when you came over the edge. Aim for upper platforms if he's edge hogging. I noticed he is patient and waits to see if you ACTUALLY sweetspot first. Before coming over the edge. So not going for the sweet spot was a good idea. But if platforms are available go for them. Not next to him on the ground. Unless you had no choice.

Remember your options of coming over the edge. Don't repeat them mix them up. According to your opponents patterns.

If he likes to challenge your kick coming over with a spaced F-Smash. Maybe you should jump over and Triangle dodge it. Or Wave-land ---> Shield.

If he starts getting in the habit of Shielding your kicks when you come over. Try a waveland grab, Or a reverse off the edge waveland to bait an attack then jump back in for a kick. Or you can be like me and try something ridiculous(As in dumb and funny looking) like Jump over waveland run past them and pivot a F-smash to their back. People like to let go of shield after Slow Zelda runs passed them.

If he starts coming at you REALLY close(Unlikely cuz spacing is his deal). You can also, Drop, immediately jump back a bit. Kick into the stage, and DI back into the stage and grab the edge w/o having to Up+B. and Zelda kicks the edge of the stage.

Ledge Stall, then Roll in after he trys to smash attacks you but fails and hits ur invincibility frames.

If he's close on your shield. Up+Smash out of it.

If he's far are your shield but fairly close. Naryu's love out of your shield *While shielding jump then immediately hit B*

Or the old kick out of shield if you're certain you'll hit. cuz if you don't he'll just shield and bust his own move out of shield. Atleast Marth and peach does that to me.

Even if Ninja Links reads this advice and trys to counter it. I just explained to you you're options it's up to you to choose the right one matching his pattern of play. for that Match.


*Edit* I know Roy's game is to be close, But since you said spacing was a problem I told you how to treat it like I would marth.
 

Dark.Pch

Smash Legend
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
16,918
Location
Manhattan, New York
NNID
Dark.Pch
3DS FC
5413-0118-3799
I saw one of the videos. Biggest problem I noticed is spacing. Zelda is NOT Peach, and shouldn't be that close to the enemy for the majority of the game EVER... Keep your distance, and make sure that Roy can't close with you. If you space right, Roy would do about 3% per attack to you, and you'd do 20% (kick). Not a bad trade, huh?
I really did not have much of a choice. it was hard to get some space from him and deal good attacks for he is always attacking. Most of the time Im trying to get away from him but could'nt. then with my bad DI............

Ninja link's roy is pretty fast but if you noticed he uses his range against you as a defense. I don't play against Roy but I'm sure the DI works somewhat like Marths so here it is.

DI+Away from Aerial Combos. Depending on where you are at you may want to DI up+Away

DI Away from his forward throw. Remember his Sweetspot is inside his sword more.

If he hits you with a big hit and knocks you off, Aim for the upper right or upper left corners by holding Up+ or not accordingly. Like there were a few times he star K.O.'d you with forward smash. You don't want to hold up on those after.

Also if Roy is above like 40% don't Down+Throw unless the edge is close behind you for tech chasing. Don't upthrow either. He's kinda heavy but not heavy enough to land kicks in when he gets high like that. Just throw him off the nearest edge and either play with din's fire and explode it infront of him to send him back(Oppose to behind him which sends him toward the stage). Or time your kick as he approaches from above. And ledge hog if he's coming from below and roll into the stage. as he up+B's

Try fox-trotting away if range is your problem. As Marth approaches me with F-air spam it looks intimidating to run through as I'm sure you're experiencing with Roy. Fox trot away, avoiding the end of the sword. Fox trot back in with a shield. Analyze your opponent. Know what he likes to do. I noticed after l-canceled forward airs he did a few forward tilts. After your fox trot. Run back after the forward tilt, or after whatever move he has that has a bit of lag. And shield as you near him more than likely Zelda's run is so slow he can get another ground move. But if you shield it at this time that normally puts him at kicks length.

This tactic prolly work on only ninja link or pple who play like him. If you played against a roy who spams grabs. this wouldn't work as well. But since your approaching and Ninjalink was using aerials and tilts to keep you away. Running in and shielding after a laggy-ish move is your best bet. IF he start to grab, as you approach then think about another option, such as going back to your run in and kick. I noticed you did quite a bit of kicks in the air but they were punished cuz you can't l-cancle in the air. Remember Zelda who has potential in a split second to kick is feared. So Roy will hold his shield anytime you jump at him. Because it's ez to shield Zelda. (Do this when you expend him to shield your kick). after you jump try and hold your kick until you almost hit the ground.

1.) This gives you a chance to shield poke the bottom of his shield with a kick.

2.) Now you can follow up after your kick more safely whether it's shield, Naryu's love's priority, Spot dodge, Jab w/e.

3.)More than likely if he's smart he'll keep shielding til the kick comes. Just remember your option. Analyze how you were getting punished.

Also he read you like a book when you came over the edge. Aim for upper platforms if he's edge hogging. I noticed he is patient and waits to see if you ACTUALLY sweetspot first. Before coming over the edge. So not going for the sweet spot was a good idea. But if platforms are available go for them. Not next to him on the ground. Unless you had no choice.

Remember your options of coming over the edge. Don't repeat them mix them up. According to your opponents patterns.

If he likes to challenge your kick coming over with a spaced F-Smash. Maybe you should jump over and Triangle dodge it. Or Wave-land ---> Shield.

If he starts getting in the habit of Shielding your kicks when you come over. Try a waveland grab, Or a reverse off the edge waveland to bait an attack then jump back in for a kick. Or you can be like me and try something ridiculous(As in dumb and funny looking) like Jump over waveland run past them and pivot a F-smash to their back. People like to let go of shield after Slow Zelda runs passed them.

If he starts coming at you REALLY close(Unlikely cuz spacing is his deal). You can also, Drop, immediately jump back a bit. Kick into the stage, and DI back into the stage and grab the edge w/o having to Up+B. and Zelda kicks the edge of the stage.

Ledge Stall, then Roll in after he trys to smash attacks you but fails and hits ur invincibility frames.

If he's close on your shield. Up+Smash out of it.

If he's far are your shield but fairly close. Naryu's love out of your shield *While shielding jump then immediately hit B*

Or the old kick out of shield if you're certain you'll hit. cuz if you don't he'll just shield and bust his own move out of shield. Atleast Marth and peach does that to me.

Even if Ninja Links reads this advice and trys to counter it. I just explained to you you're options it's up to you to choose the right one matching his pattern of play. for that Match.


*Edit* I know Roy's game is to be close, But since you said spacing was a problem I told you how to treat it like I would marth.

Im Just not good against People with swords. Its Hard to Deal good damage on them. and I get comboed like crazy.

Thanks for the advice.
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
I really did not have much of a choice. it was hard to get some space from him and deal good attacks for he is always attacking. Most of the time Im trying to get away from him but could'nt. then with my bad DI............




Im Just not good against People with swords. Its Hard to Deal good damage on them. and I get comboed like crazy.

Thanks for the advice.
Not even good against Link?
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
I'll say the funny thing about kicking is, you can admit that it is something you spam, but it doesn't help the opponent much to know it. If you tell someone for example, that a certain Link is fond of... I dunno... CCing and then spin attack CCCing, they can expect it, and prepare. If, however, you tell someone that all this Zelda does is fair and bair, who cares if they know. First of all, duh. Second of all, knowing isn't make it any easier for you. Anyone who's anyone knows that that's all Zelda does. Kick, kick, kick.
 
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