Help against General Campiness

[Stewie1288]

I played at a local tourney recently (admittedly I think i was one of the few on the AT wagon), and I won doubles (friendly fire off lol), and got 3rd in singles.

I lost to two different players (1st and 2nd place). They were related and both of them were EXTREMELY campy, to the point where their movement was like 70% dash dancing and 30% rolling. Yes. I said rolling. One was Ganon the other Jiggs. Main reason I think I lost was simple inexperience.

I'm looking for some good general tips to approach campers. More specific tips versus a campy Ganon are welcome too. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Grunt]

Camping with Ganon and Jiggs?
That makes no sense, just approach with f-airs and you should be fine.
​

 

[Retroking2000]

dash dancing and rolling , why did it work on you

you knew thats all they did .

All i am saying is that you use a attack they roll , and hit you back that is such a old smash style of playing ,

the reason why they are hitting you back is because you are using a move to attack with that has just enough lag for them to roll behind and hit you back

you posted' on what they were doing what sort of attacks were you doing

i believe thats where we can help you

also you said you lost to inexperience

you didnt you lost because you didnt know how to punish roll spammers ,

if thats the case just use little lag moves and marth is notorious for spacing , space attacks to make them react prematurely , try to fake them out try not to hit them but barely so they are tricked into reacting once they roll '' nuff said ''

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I tend to run in with an auto-cancel nair to a reaction of some kind if someone's dashdancing a lot.

But it depends on the situation.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I tend to run in with an auto-cancel nair to a reaction of some kind if someone's dashdancing a lot.

But it depends on the situation.

 

[Stewie1288]

After a few days of reflection I think I may have simply over-thought the situation and given them more credit than i should have. The old addage "don't use mindgames on people who don't have any" deal. I just need to the easy things that work.

On different but slightly related note. Why is ganon a nearly even matchup for Marth? (according to match-up charts i've seen.)

 

[Retroking2000]

because they have the same range , its like fighting another marth lol

 

[Tomato Kirby]

After a few days of reflection I think I may have simply over-thought the situation and given them more credit than i should have. The old addage "don't use mindgames on people who don't have any" deal. I just need to the easy things that work.

I think mind-games would still work on them, though, since they became predictable and easy to read.


I can see why Jigglypuff might camp, although I cannot see a pressing reason for Gannondorf.

 

[Stewie1288]

@Tears: Does Ganons fair have comparable range to a marth?

@Tomato: I couldn't see why he would camp either. That's the main reason it threw me for a loop. =P

 

[TerenceLau]

ganon's d tilt can out range a marth. ganon only has spacing and range, therefore he needs to be more campy rather than being aggressive. dash dance to grab against a ganon, use u tilt to out prioritize his aerials, do aerial to jab/utilt or even dash dance grab up close to punish his missed grabs.

against jiggs, there's really not much for jiggs to do at a close range with marth. marth can out range jiggs in his sword range. just dash dance and look for a grab to f smash, play it safe.

 

[ArcNatural]

Another thing about Ganon, he wins the aerial clang game. He only needs 2-4 hits to get you off the stage, and that can easily be done if he clangs with you in the air. This matchup is kind of defensive and campy on both sides. If you try to be the aggressor and your evenly matched players you have a good chance of losing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

vs ganon nair, force him to go over it and then punish.

or dd camp and don't get hit ganon is really slow, his aerials are dumb and covered by jabs but if you do space and react fast enough you can grab in the lag or just wait for a ground move that isn't jab.

jiggs just space and cover yourself.

 

[Ace83]

there are some great vids on youtube of how to fight a good ganon with marth. among all the great ganons out there i need not mention, i can recall tipman, magus, and linguini having a few decent marth battles on youtube (versus marth players like m2k, maverick, dark falchion, etc). its basically an even match (i'd say 55/45 marth..), and one of the funnest in the game imo. don't underestimate the range and priority of ganon's aerials.

 

[Stewie1288]

Yeah. I'm beginning to give more credit to Ganon than I used to. I'll have to search up those videos. Seems like a spacing game to me. Boooring matches. *thinks of Jiggs v peach matches*

=)

 

[Proverbs]

If you're having trouble against Ganon, just use Link. The Master Sword will surely take him down!


Seriously, though, Ganon shouldn't be a real problem for Marth. Although he has about the same range, his attacks are much slower. You have the ability to dodge and react faster than he. I'd use that to your advantage. And, unlike what a previous poster said, I'd recommend being aggressive. Not overly of course, but if the Ganon's going to camp, you have to move in, but be smart about it. It shouldn't take too long to be able to read an opponent as predictable as you make them sound. Just see through they're spacing games and wait for a hit to connect. Once it does use the fact that Ganon's weight and slow attacks make his reaction even worse and keep comboing him as much as you can. Do what you can to push him off the edge, too. Ganon's weight makes recovering a problem at any point. If you can put the pressure on him when he's off the edge, you might be able to lead him to a premature death.

Anyway, that's my advice. Take it for what it's worth, but always with a grain of salt. I haven't had any experience against good Ganon's but this is just what I know of the two characters.