Hell Rise (new AT)

[krazyzyko]

There's a faster way to attack from the ledge into the stage than ledge get up attack:

1. Grab ledge
2. Buffer ledge jump as soon as you grab the ledge.
3. Down B ASAP (mash down B because the timing is really tight)

Ganon will appear on stage with the ground quake animation of his air down B launching the opponent upward.
If opponent is too close to the edge, you might slip off. But in that situation it would be better to ganoncide or Up air.

 

[Koskinator]

And this i say wholeheartedly

Nope

 

[Theosmeo]

Could you show a video of this? it seems like that´ll just leave you with a bunch of lag :/

 

[krazyzyko]

Could you show a video of this? it seems like that´ll just leave you with a bunch of lag :/

It's as fast as this:
https://youtu.be/wPvcK5OULf4
But now the ground quake has a hitbox and you don't slip off stage unless your opponent is standing by the ledge.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ledge Hop > semi-instant Spike-hitboxed down+b on stage is great during Trump Battles.
The "quake" is kinda worthless, tho. Sorry.

 

[Theosmeo]

Ledge Hop > semi-instant Spike-hitboxed down+b on stage is great during Trump Battles.
The "quake" is kinda worthless, tho. Sorry.

But it would be such a nice setup if they just took of 10 or so frames of lag, I would even be fine with a decrease in off the top KB if it was only a slightly dumb idea to land with down b rather than a suicidal one

 

[MGK]

This trick has been around for a while but doesn't serve much as you only slide off and regain your invincibility from the ledge if your opponent stands right next to the ledge. What makes it worse is the quake doesn't have a hit box. So it's mainly used to re get your invincibility again. This might be useful against Villagers tree to avoid it but the risk seems too great.

You can also do this trick on a platform where the quake comes out but you still go underneath the platform. Still no use for this either as the quake has no hit box. Maybe a bait though? Who knows.

With landing the down B, seems overall too great of risk to go for it unless your in trouble and going for the kill.

 

[_Magus_]

This trick has been around for a while but doesn't serve much as you only slide off and regain your invincibility from the ledge if your opponent stands right next to the ledge. What makes it worse is the quake doesn't have a hit box. So it's mainly used to re get your invincibility again. This might be useful against Villagers tree to avoid it but the risk seems too great.

You can also do this trick on a platform where the quake comes out but you still go underneath the platform. Still no use for this either as the quake has no hit box. Maybe a bait though? Who knows.

With landing the down B, seems overall too great of risk to go for it unless your in trouble and going for the kill.

It can be used as a mind game, but then again, any option can.

 

[Koskinator]

if i see this thread with a bolded title one more time
One more god damn time



Just let it die my children

 

[Vermanubis]

I'll give this thread a bit longer so you guys can work out your ideas, but then I'm merging it into the AT thread. It's just difficult to close it when I see the dissemination of ideas happening here, knowing it, historically, doesn't translate to the AT thread.

 

[Theosmeo]

I guess this could be used as a way to mixup edgeguards. When you slide off the platform you could Bair immediately to surprise someone, also there's that bit in castle siege 2 where there's a grabbable ledge over the destroyable platform, if you slide off that edge and you dair> usmash on that platform it'll be an easyish KO.

Still pretty situational

 

[_Magus_]

I see this more as tech to learn in order to look fancy rather than a tech with distinct, useful competitive application. It looks cool but even in situations where it's usable there usually are better options.

 

[Koskinator]

If you land it, the enemy pops into the air, takes like what 4%? and then has enough time to jump away before you are out of lag
This is honestly so terrible

 

[Swoops]

Go to bed Grandpa, you just don't get it.

 

[Koskinator]

God damn hipster ass ganons tellin me to go to bed illshowthosewhippersnappers

 

[MagiusNecros]

Seems pointless honestly. The lag you suffer afterwards is not worth it. Besides when I don't up air I ledgefist.

And if an opponent suspects this thing you are doing they can block and punish accordingly.

 

[krazyzyko]

The quake does have a hitbox now. Idk since which patch but it currently does. Unless your opponent is right by the ledge where its better to U air or ganoncide. I just use this as a replacement for ledge getup attack. Which is way faster and launches opponent upward.

 

[Naroghin]

Although, remember that getup attack has better range in all directions and is active longer. Also, launching people up isn't terribly useful when you spend the whole follow-up window squatting.

I've been playing around with this in training and it looks useful in cases where I know I'll need something like getup attack but comes out quicker and only hits on the ground for an instant. That isn't often, but I suppose a mixup is a mixup. I would seriously reconsider replacing all ledge getup attacks with this (this was my inference from your post, forgive me if it wasn't what you meant).

 

[krazyzyko]

Although, remember that getup attack has better range in all directions and is active longer. Also, launching people up isn't terribly useful when you spend the whole follow-up window squatting.

I've been playing around with this in training and it looks useful in cases where I know I'll need something like getup attack but comes out quicker and only hits on the ground for an instant. That isn't often, but I suppose a mixup is a mixup. I would seriously reconsider replacing all ledge getup attacks with this (this was my inference from your post, forgive me if it wasn't what you meant).

I would use hell rise here and there but the timing is tight and it would become predictable if I do it too often, since it only works right after a ledge grab.