HDTV makes Smash go slower by about 5 frames

[DRD]

This is a question, but I don't want to put it in the computer cafe because it doesn't have anything to do with computers...Well, we just bought a 37" LCD TV, and I hooked up Ye Olde Gamecube and it seems that the higher quality makes the controller's inputs about 5 frames too slow, much too slow for me to play efficiently. Because as soon as I decide I wanna grab someone, in that waiting time I've been hit by Marth's Fsmash.

Have any of you had this problem? Is there a certain setting/procedure to take so that it will be normal playing speed again, or do you have to use it on a normal TV?

 

[Frozenserpent]

I also seem to have noticed this. It seems that the HDTV, while smooth, actually displays everything a bit delayed.

 

[extrachunky]

i experienced this when I was playing on a projector. :[

 

[Psi]

That's strange. I wouildn't expect it to make a difference. I thought HDTV's showed the same as other tv's except on HD channels. So I would think that a gamecube would look and be timed the same as a regular tv.

 

[GoldenGlove]

Here's the thing. HDTVs don't display 480i (GC's native resolution, unless you have component cables) as a native resolution, so they have to downscale, which takes time, causing the delay. Getting component cables will allow Smash to display in 480p, a native resolution of HDTVs, correcting the delay problem. Personally, I don't find the delay to be too noticable or hindersome.

 

[AlphaKeny1]

I had the exact same problem. HDTV takes an extra step to process the picture and make it a better quality, which is bad for video games. Mostly all of them have a game mode, or its possible to get component cables. For my Samsung, for example, I just had to rename the input channel to Games. The picture looks a lot crappier, but at least you don't experience any input lag.

 

[froz3ntear]

Here's the thing. HDTVs don't display 480i (GC's native resolution, unless you have component cables) as a native resolution, so they have to downscale, which takes time, causing the delay. Getting component cables will allow Smash to display in 480p, a native resolution of HDTVs, correcting the delay problem. Personally, I don't find the delay to be too noticable or hindersome.

thats exactly what happens... whatever is displayed must be converted to the hdtv's resolution. The lag is noticable more or less depending on the tv, but its there... and it makes the game feel nearly impossible to play at higher levels.

Before, hdtv producers didn't even acknowledge this as a problem and only until recently has it been put to light... so on some newer hdtv's there is a game option specifically meant to display 480i.

It's not 5 frames... there isn't a set number... it varies... the most drastic lag on some hdtv's being 30 frames (half a second right?)

 

[EnigmaticCam]

There was already a thread about this earlier. Here's some good information about this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558125

 

[MoogleDude]

would these help at least for the wii then?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...omponent+cables&type=product&id=1156203388826


my family is thinking of getting an LCD

 

[EnigmaticCam]

would these help at least for the wii then?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...omponent+cables&type=product&id=1156203388826


my family is thinking of getting an LCD

I don't know how that works, but this is what ign recommended: http://www.talismoon.com/cgi-bin/version2/engine.pl?page=overview-wii

 

[iankobe]

This also happened to me when the Cube is not DIRECTLY connected to the TV. (Connect through VCR then to TV)

 

[DRD]

So, iankobe, did that fix the problem? Connecting it through the vcr? How does that work?

 

[GoldenGlove]

DRD, he's saying he DID have the problem when he connected to the VCR.

MoogleDude, those component cables would work.

 

[Na!l]

I had the same exact problem. I bought a Wii at launch and it completely fixed this problem for me. However, see if your TV has a "Game" mode, which fixed it on my neighbors TV.

 

[pdk]

Here's the thing. HDTVs don't display 480i (GC's native resolution, unless you have component cables) as a native resolution, so they have to downscale, which takes time, causing the delay. Getting component cables will allow Smash to display in 480p, a native resolution of HDTVs, correcting the delay problem. Personally, I don't find the delay to be too noticable or hindersome.

isn't 480p only available on earlier-model cubes, or was it higher resolutions that were dropped?

 

[Zenjamin]

i experienced this when I was playing on a projector. :[

really?
anyone else had problems with this?


i was thinking on making a smash club here to get use of a projector, so please get back to me on this

 

[Shellshock821]

I have an HDTV and I play smash on it sometimes with my friends. I honestly haven't noticed any lag but then again my Gamecube is directly hooked into the TV so I don't know if that has an effect or not. My friends have commented that it's most certainly different to play on a smaller regular TV then play HDTV and it feels weird. I don't think it's a gameplay thing though, mostly just how big and wide the TV screen is compared to what most are used to playing on.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

He who thinks there's no lag on an HDTV, clearly doesn't play fox

 

[Aeramis]

I have a new RCA 52 inch HD TV, I use the red white and yellow cables that came with the Wii and connect to the front of the TV (Aux channel "Front") to play melee. I was wondering if playing melee on a Wii with that setup would slow it down any? I haven't noticed it any slower but this topic got me wondering.

 

[Shellshock821]

He who thinks there's no lag on an HDTV, clearly doesn't play fox

Actually Fox is probably the character I use the most now, even on that TV and it is completely fine with no problems to play him.

 

[Eggm]

Its not the HDTV part that is making it lag it is the LCD. Every LCD screen i've ever played on HD Or not has had that lag including my laptop monitor.. um.. its REAL annoying, i can't play at all on LCD tv's if you can still bring it back get a plasma HDTV no lag on there.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

As mentioned in the link I posted, and as mentioned earlier in this thread, the problem is with scalability. If the native resolution of the LCD/Plasma you're using is different than the output resolution of the gamecube, then the LCD/Plasma has to scale down the frames, which will cause delay. Some TVs take longer than others, but the lag is there.

 

[iankobe]

really?
anyone else had problems with this?


i was thinking on making a smash club here to get use of a projector, so please get back to me on this

Smash clubs....mmm....and projectors....

Anyway, I also want to know if this happens with the projector also. Do anyone of you know? I believe SOMEONE has used projectors to play smash...right?

 

[DRD]

I've read that article already before you posted it, Ec. Does anyone know of a way to scale down/make the LCD TV lower quality without purchasing a device or something along those lines?

 

[maXXXpower]

Smash clubs....mmm....and projectors....

Anyway, I also want to know if this happens with the projector also. Do anyone of you know? I believe SOMEONE has used projectors to play smash...right?

We used projectors at AZOne, and that didn't make any difference in the gameplay. LCD TVs, however, do lag quite a bit.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

I've read that article already before you posted it, Ec. Does anyone know of a way to scale down/make the LCD TV lower quality without purchasing a device or something along those lines?

Unless the LCD TV has a second native resolution, I know of no way to do this. The Wii supports 480p (The gamecube says it supports progressive scan mode. That's the same thing, right?), so if your TV has a native resolution of 480p (EDTV), you can get special cables for it.

 

[nublet06]

the projector at AZone did lag. those were just so everyone in the room oculd see better. the people actually playing were looking at the tv.

 

[Redd]

So the component cables DO fix lag on HDTV's?

What kind of TV is yours? And does the wii lag as well?

 

[EnigmaticCam]

So the component cables DO fix lag on HDTV's?

What kind of TV is yours? And does the wii lag as well?

I don't have an HDTV yet, but I'm in the market for one so I've been doing as much research as I can about this issue. The Wii will lag just the same as the gamecube, xbox, ps2, or anything that's not outputing at the native resolution of the TV. The problem, however, is that the best resolution output the Wii can do with component cables is 480p, and I'm pretty sure most if not all HDTVs don't have a native resolution that low (they're usually at 768 or higher) .

So I have a few options: (1) get an EDTV, because Enhanced Definition is 480p, (2) attempt to find an HDTV with a second native resolution at 480p, (3) get an HDTV at whatever native resolution and use the VGA input, (4) or get an HDTV at whatever native resolution that has a "game mode" option and suffer through the lag, however small it may be.

 

[GoldenGlove]

isn't 480p only available on earlier-model cubes, or was it higher resolutions that were dropped?

Yeah, they stopped putting ports for component cables on later-model gamecubes.

 

[yorpy]

my friends TV is a lot slower than mine, he doesn't seem to notice it though, i do and i suck whenever i play him, and when you play as bowser (like i always do) i can't do the combos that im used to doing.

 

[nealdt]

Check to see if your TV has a Game Mode. Many modern HDTVs do, and it will eliminate the lag you experience.

Also, DON'T BUY A COMPONENT CABLE FOR YOUR GAMECUBE until you make sure you have a component-out port on the back. Newer GameCubes do NOT have the port you'll need; it was removed in a hardware revision in May 2004.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

Check to see if your TV has a Game Mode. Many modern HDTVs do, and it will eliminate the lag you experience.

Also, DON'T BUY A COMPONENT CABLE FOR YOUR GAMECUBE until you make sure you have a component-out port on the back. Newer GameCubes do NOT have the port you'll need; it was removed in a hardware revision in May 2004.

Just to clear any confusion, when I talked about component cables I was referring to the Wii.

Also, my understanding is that, while the "Game Mode" option will reduce lag, it will not eliminate it completely. Is that not the case?

Here's a quote from the article I posted earlier:

Another (and much easier) solution is to use your HDTV's "Game Mode" to speed up the scaling process from 480i to your HDTV's native resolution. However, not all HDTV's have such a Game Mode. HDTVs which utilize a game mode are STILL very susceptable to lag despite speeding up the scaling process.

Here is a quote from Samsung’s Dan Schinasi in an interview with gaming illustrated:
"Current 1080p models incorporate "GAME MODE" which minimizes lag time by 30 percent. This feature will be common on most 2006 models."

30 percent, huh? Well, for those of you happy with 30 percent . . .

Is that wrong?

 

[nealdt]

*shrug* I've only used a game mode once, and it did the trick just fine.

 

[kirbstir]

On Samsung's 30" slim fit CRT HDTV (TX-R3079WHX), even with component cables there is an ever-so-slight lag. It still has to upconvert.

For future replies, please include make and model numbers into your responses so we can get an idea of what TVs might lag and what TVs might not lag.

EDIT: And no, IGN's list is not 100% accurate, as they listed the above model as being lag free; it is only lag free when you run a game at its native resolution (1080i).

 

[Jumpfreak]

I've been trying to tackle this problem for a while now.

Running smash at 480p helps but does NOT elminate lag.

Even a mix of "game mode" and component cables does not completely fix the problem.

There is only one way I hear of to completely eliminate lag on an HDTV, and that is to buy a rather expensive piece of japanese equipment that supposedly converts the TV's output alltogether. (not in 480i,p, etc. I think it was called VGR or something)

I've exhausted many options trying to figure this out.

My suggestion: don't play smash on HDTV's if the lag bothers you / affects your play.

EDIT: My model TV is a sony wega xbr970 HDTV

 

[EnigmaticCam]

I've been trying to tackle this problem for a while now.

Running smash at 480p helps but does NOT elminate lag.

Even a mix of "game mode" and component cables does not completely fix the problem.

There is only one way I hear of to completely eliminate lag on an HDTV, and that is to buy a rather expensive piece of japanese equipment that supposedly converts the TV's output alltogether. (not in 480i,p, etc. I think it was called VGR or something)

I've exhausted many options trying to figure this out.

My suggestion: don't play smash on HDTV's if the lag bothers you / affects your play.

EDIT: My model TV is a sony wega xbr970 HDTV

The reason running 480p doesn't eliminate lag for you is because your TV's native resolution is 1080i I checked your TV out and it doesn't have a VGA input either, so yeah, your only option is the japanese converter.

 

[ehjay111]

How many frames aprroximatly are you looking at for lag with the component cables?

 

[Jumpfreak]

1 or 2 frames, its hardly noticeable except for the most hardcore players.