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Havok: Cleared Up

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Pouring over the <a href="http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/info/info01.html" target="_blank">15 Second Movie Presentation</a> from the DOJO, I stared to notice some things that were not as apparent to me previously. It may be Havok, or it may simply be the new way Sakurai is designing Smash. Either way, it’s worth taking note of.

In Melee, when you were hit by an explosion, you typically flew away in the same way every time. No matter what part of the explosion hit you, you would fly up and out at about a 45 degree angle. This doesn’t make much sense. If an explosion is a force expanding in all directions, then depending and how it hits you, you should be able to fly in all directions. Brawl has fixed this. Check out this first example.
<ol>
<li>Fox’s first shot mostly hits the ground. The explosion moves out from there and clip Bowser in the jaw. Bowser flies up diagonally. But because the blast wasn’t a direct hit and Bowser is quite heavy, he only flies up a little bit.</li>
<li>Fox hits him directly in the stomach. This is a much stronger hit, and Bowser flies off at a correct angle to the explosion.</li>
<li>Link gets blasted right at his feet. Guess where he flies? That’s right! Straight up!</li>
</ol>
<p align="center"><a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok1.gif" title="havok1.gif"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok1.gif" alt="havok1.gif" /><!--more--></a></p>
In this second example you can see how the same explosion can send players in various directions.
<ol>
<li> All three characters are near the bomb.</li>
<li>Samus is furthest away taking a weaker shockwave of the blast. Kirby and Zelda take the blast at full force.</li>
<li>Samus is merely knocked out of the air and skids to a stop. Kirby is blasted out at an angle that’s more parallel to the ground while flying much faster than Samus. Because Zelda is below Kirby and the bomb, she is blasted down, colliding with the side of Eldin Bridge, and rebounds in the opposite direction.</li>
</ol>
<p align="center"><a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok2.gif" title="havok2.gif"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok2.gif" alt="havok2.gif" /></a></p>
In this example, Pikachu uses his final smash, Volt Tackle, to ram DK and Mario. Notice that Mario and DK fly at the same angle that Pikachu attacks at. The preservation of angles and momentum is exactly what I’ve been saying Smash needs.
<p align="center"><a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok3.gif" title="havok3.gif"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/havok3.gif" alt="havok3.gif" /></a></p>
<p align="center">&nbsp;</p>
<p align="left">It’s all so clear to me now. I hope my arrows will help you see all of these subtle changes happening as you watch the video in real time.</p>
 
H

homelessvagrant

Guest
Yes exellent kirbykid, this and the last post show how more intuitive smash will be. I’m glad you notice this and am happy that C. Falcons fair will actually knock the opponent in the right direction.
 
L

Lava

Guest
I’m pretty excited about the potential of Havok, but I must say this because it won’t leave my mind.

For example no. 2, it’s possible that the characters were at different percents. (Plus Kirby is lighter) Regardless though, a bomb usually won’t send you horizontally anyway, so just the fact that it looks like they’re flying in the right direction is a huge improvement.

It’s kind of hard to believe, but it seems even if the game looks to play largely the same, it will FEEL completely different once we finally get move a character around with our own hands. Ah… making contact with my first few attacks… it will be a sweet, surreal, and satisfying experience. My brain nerves will explode in ecstasy. (Now all can see the crippling effects this game has on it’s hardcore fans. Heh.)
 
F

Froilen

Guest
great discovery… a bom in your head send you down? thast may be somting interesting.
 

CORRUPTiON

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
159
Whoa thanks for this info. I would have never recognized it myself. This would make a drastic difference in how we would normally play smash. Much more realistic in a sense.
 
H

homelessvagrant

Guest
I believe this may help in setting up combos as well. smash professional will get that much better than they are now.
 
S

Sneaky 2.0

Guest
I still don’t agree with Footstool Jumping…. it sounds cheap if the one being jumped on can do nothing.
 
H

homelessvagrant

Guest
Well in order to be able to foot stool jump the character has to time the move procisely allowing the recovering opponent to knock them away.
 
S

Sneaky 2.0

Guest
Yes, but the one being jumped on still has no say in whether or not they can avoid this meteor smash/immobilization. If I get the timing right, I can make sure they don’t recover with an instant KO and even get a free jump back? That doesn’t sound right.
 
H

homelessvagrant

Guest
Don’t forget about the probable ability to meteor cancel. Plus we don’t really know the properties of the move. It might be harder to do than you think.
 
S

Sneaky 2.0

Guest
At least give us an option to turn it off, I say. I can imagine getting flanked in the one-on-three matches I like to do. One enemy from the left, one from the right, and now I have to guard above myself?
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Sneaky 2.0
I wouldn’t worry about it. Also, Footstool jumping is nothing compared to Fox’s shine in Melee. It spikes you, you can’t cancel it, he can cancel his, he can do it multiply times off the edge, he uses his speed to make it better, and he gets a tiny bit of invincibility every time he uses it. That’s unfair to the MAX.

If you don’t want to be footstool jumped, then come in high, or low, or with some well timed attacks. Heck, you can even time you up-B to avoid it.

If you’re playing a one-on- three match, you deserve to be flanked and out positioned. I can’t believe you’re already talking about taking out something. You don’t even know how it works. This is NOT the right attitude. It’s cool to be concerned, but reserve all brash judgments and comments until we know more.
 
S

Sneaky 2.0

Guest
Kirbykid:

An attack would cause lagging for me if I were trying to recover. :( I’d have to wait for the attack to end to make my next move. Although the Up-B function seems viable though. Still, it’s a way for them to force me to use it early.
 
K

Kinnikuman

Guest
To me it seems that Havok = No wavedashing.
Weird I was just reading about havok yesterday then there’s 2 topics about it…Cool!
 
S

speed demon fox_

Guest
this post was late.
ive seen it almost one month ago.
 
S

speed demon fox_

Guest
well pikachus FS makes since but i think if its hard to control.
yoshi FS (the pikach copcat) stole the idea and made it easier to control, slower, and weaker, but with more range.
 
D

Dyce

Guest
When I heard Smashcast4 and listened to you guys discuss it I was very against the thought of the physics changing so drastically. I think when it was mentioned, Mic had said something about Pikachu being kneed by Falcon and he expected Pika to be knocked off in the direction Falcon was running. I thought this change was going to be a terrible thing, but now that you’ve shown me what the Havoc engine does… I’m all for it.

I guess I just misunderstood. Thanks for clearing that up! Yay Havoc! Yay Brawl!
 
K

Kinnikuman

Guest
Guys! I just noticed something count the number of updates from Ike to Pt then to Diddy every 7 updates! So if My prediction is true that would mean if every weekday has only one update this week Thursday will be a new character!!!!!!!!!

I’m probably wrong though.
DARN!
 
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BigBlaze16

Guest
every1s been talkin about characters they want but what about items or stages?
 
K

Kinnikuman

Guest
I already like the AC stage and I don’t care too much about stages and items so yeah.
*NOOK 4 BRAWL*
 
M

Mr. Identity Crisis

Guest
CLEARASIL IS LIKE SMOKEBALL, BUT IS NICER BECAUSE NOT ONLY DOES IT COVER UP THE SCREEN, IT GET’S RID OF ZITS TOO!
 
B

BigBlaze16

Guest
i think mr resseti wud make a better chracter than nook, but thats my opinoin
 
K

Kinnikuman

Guest
What happened to everyone? I guess Sunday is not a good day for the blog, hmm….
AC CHARACTER 4 BRAWL!!!!!!
 
C

ChozoChampion

Guest
wow glad i checked today i wasn’t going to check till monday because no updates….. anyway i love this new engine im alredy thinking of some killer samus combos with it and the ones i alredy use wont cause ******** flight results( although ill miss the wtf deaths) as for items i could care less they just good for fighting peeps who need a handicap if i have them on will probably only be the smash ball and only if zamus is somewhat decent or unless i can choose when to unleash it.
 
M

Mr. Identity Crisis

Guest
Bomberman would be cool if he could switch bombs. Like ice, water, wind, electric, dark, light, and magma
 
C

ChozoChampion

Guest
yeah bomber man would be cool as long as hes the classic and not the newest version of himself
 
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