Harder to get Kills? (Needs Advice)

[GrnFzzTgr]

Maybe it's just me sucking, but does anybody else feel like it's a bit difficult to get kills with Kirby before you're at high damage yourself?

Currently I seem to have the biggest issues against characters like Yoshi, Ness and Greninja, also Little Mac really wracks up damage quickly and hits hard consistently.

I tend to rely on tilts, grabs and combo attempts to build up damage, but then I find myself not really trying to go for kill moves when I finally get the opponent in the red, usually because my damage is pretty high at that point and it feels too risky. Unfortunately sick I use back air as a space move it tends to get staled too. Any advice as a Kirby main?

 

[Unknownkid]

Sort of. Your most reliable kill move is Fsmash and I guess Bair (Hanmer too but godspeed). So you want to keep those two fresh until it is time. Most of the time, you will be relying on simple gimp moves like Nair, Dair, and B to get easy kills. Try using dtilt, ftilt, and UpB for spacing. Punish opening with Fsmash and Bair. Try using the walls in omega mode to your advantage. Essentially, hit them off the wall to give them a weird angle to recover from.

Yoshi has super armor on his second jump. So once he is off stage, I will normally jump up and perform a Kirby-cide on him.
Ness and Greninja can be drill down with Dair (The former is easier).
Little Mac is silly. Majority of his attack cannot touch you if you just duck. Bair always beats his Side B. His recovery, in general, is just bad. So more gimp opportunities.

I personally have more trouble with killing Villager. Thank god you just punch gyroid without getting hurt.

 

[t!MmY]

My awesome combo I used this last weekend at my first SSB4 tournament:

D-air to D-smash!

You're welcome.

 

[WootSnorlax]

You should focus a lot on your off stage game. Don't only rely on using any smashes to kill unless you know you're going to land it as a punish, instead try to gimp them. If they are high percentage you can try to throw them off stage and approach them from the air because that's where you have the most advantage. You can dair to footstool most characters in this game with relative ease. It might take a bit of practice but in the end it's worth it.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Thanks for the advice guys! I'll try to take it into account!

My awesome combo I used this last weekend at my first SSB4 tournament:

D-air to D-smash!

You're welcome.

Ah, yeah, I've used this combo before! It's pretty nice. It's too bad I have trouble down smashing immediately, haha.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Hmm the biggest problem I have with Ness is it feels like all his moves out prioritize any of mine.I also have no real answer to fast characters. Marth, Lucina, Zero Suit, Shiek, etc. How do you punish and approach little mac?

 

[Asdioh]

Ness is easy, you beat him onstage and gimp the heck out of him. Just need to learn his habits. If he likes to run away and pk fire, you run after him and grab. Greninja I honestly think destroys kirby, he has speed and pretty good priority. I need more practice with that matchup but I can't see it being in Kirby's favor, he's also quick to recover and good at gimping, Hydro Pump is OP. I think Kirby beats Little Mac solidly, but I like to call them Laggle Mac because I've seen some of them with awful connections online, and they abuse extreme lag to land easy smashes and KO punches Anyway, grab him or get him in the air some other way, then beat the crap out of him and don't let him recover.
I haven't played a Yoshi yet, but I know that matchup was a nightmare for Kirby (or at least me) in Brawl. Kirby was forced to approach, and Yoshi's pivot grab beat literally every approach Kirby could make. Yoshi's pivot grab is laggier in this game, but the rest of him seems pretty buffed so this might be a really tough matchup, Yoshi seems like a good character.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I admit I'm not that great. I guess I'm fairly average.

With Little Mac seem to find myself getting cause in the super armored smash attack, and rush attack most often. I can DI out of the infinite jab spam. He moves really fast it's hard for me to do much of anything. before I have high damage. Speed characters seem to be a big problem I have.

I'm also finding it really hard to punish rolls, As soon as I starting putting on pressure, it seems like people start spamming the rolls and I can't keep up. The lack of an instant down smash isn't helping me either.

Another thing with Ness is I kind myself getting cause in PK thunder jungles, even when I attempt to air dodge through. I haven't really run into PK fire spam, just nesses who love to use the aerials and dash attack, and PK thunder.

On the other hand, every Kirby I've run into so far has been awesome! Most of them have better reflexes than I do, but the fights are still really fun.

My for Glory record is pretty much destroyed at this point! I was at 80% wins, now I'm down to 53% and falling @_@

Any more advice? I'd also be willing to add people to my FC and battle with them, could give me advice after matches!

Also is it me and terrible reflexes, or is it a bit harder to do some inputs than it was in brawl? Like a reversed short hopped back air, pivot grab, down smash, and short hopped fair?

 

[Asdioh]

Inputs on 3ds are awkward. I can do most things just fine, but for some reason (I think this is smash 4 specific) sometimes pivot grabs become pivot tilts. A LOT of times I try to do a smash and end up tilting, or do a tilt and end up smashing. It's ok, I consider the 3ds version practice for the real version

Ness' PK thunder isn't a problem, you can Dair it and cancel it out. You can probably use any aerial actually. I hear Kirby destroys Little Mac simply by spitting him offstage and gimping him, I haven't tried much of that cheesy stuff though.

I'm 131-23 on For Glory, it's been a fun ride. I actually accumulated 10 of those losses today, all against this one Japanese guy. I was playing a bunch of Japanese people but then this guy was actually good and it was fun. I won quite a few but I'm pretty sure he won more. He played numerous characters, kept going back to Charizard though. I kept getting his Charizard over 200% because I couldn't get a kill or gimp :|

 

[Unknownkid]

I agree. Sometimes doing Up B makes me do Side B instead. This became more potent with Greninja and Yoshi... ugh. Stupid BNF.
Asdioh as soon as Charizard hits 130% Dair to Upsmash/Dsmash will always kill him.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Inputs on 3ds are awkward. I can do most things just fine, but for some reason (I think this is smash 4 specific) sometimes pivot grabs become pivot tilts. A LOT of times I try to do a smash and end up tilting, or do a tilt and end up smashing. It's ok, I consider the 3ds version practice for the real version

Ness' PK thunder isn't a problem, you can Dair it and cancel it out. You can probably use any aerial actually. I hear Kirby destroys Little Mac simply by spitting him offstage and gimping him, I haven't tried much of that cheesy stuff though.

I'm 131-23 on For Glory, it's been a fun ride. I actually accumulated 10 of those losses today, all against this one Japanese guy. I was playing a bunch of Japanese people but then this guy was actually good and it was fun. I won quite a few but I'm pretty sure he won more. He played numerous characters, kept going back to Charizard though. I kept getting his Charizard over 200% because I couldn't get a kill or gimp :|

Better than my score! my win rate is 50%, I can't view the numbers at the moment.

 

[Asdioh]

Well I only found one Yoshi so far but I saved the replay! http://youtu.be/1UNiwvAySZs

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Wow! I'd be no match for you, awesome Kirby!

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

and.. I just ran into my first villager. I beat them but that was so annoying! How do you gimp them? I tried breaking the balloon's but they were still able to recover. This one just kept spamming the same three moves. Loid, Tree, slingshot (to stun me) and the recovery on the ledge. Didn't that used to be called planking?

I've got so much to learn @_@

 

[Unknownkid]

Nice video Asdioh. I love your combos. Do you mind if I borrow a few of your techniques?

Hmm Yeah... Villager. You cannot really gimp Villager unless someone can prove me wrong. You are better off just kill them directly or abuse the ledge mechanics. You can punch the loid and take no damage. Final Cutter goes through the Tree. If you get his power, try pocketing either the loid, bowling ball or tree. Then use them when Villager is recovering.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Nice video Asdioh. I love your combos. Do you mind if I borrow a few of your techniques?

Hmm Yeah... Villager. You cannot really gimp Villager unless someone can prove me wrong. You are better off just kill them directly or abuse the ledge mechanics. You can punch the loid and take no damage. Final Cutter goes through the Tree. If you get his power, try pocketing either the loid, bowling ball or tree. Then use them when Villager is recovering.

Thanks! good to know! yeah, I learned that punching destroys the loud by mistake.

I'm really sorry if i'm asking too many questions, or if it seems like I'm complaining a bit much., but I really appreciate all the input you guys have given me so far. It's so much more helpful than kind of input I got from people when playing brawl "don't get grabbed, don't get hit, get good" >_> Just wanted to let you know the advice is appreciated. I hope the advice you guys give helps others too!

 

[-Jax]

Not a Kirby player, but I was having trouble getting kills with Samus since her kill moves changed from Brawl. What helped a lot for me was going into training mode and checking at what percentage moves kill from center-stage, and from the edge of the stage. Make a mental note of the best (and most landable) killing moves, and make sure you keep them completely fresh so you can use them to their full killing potential.

An example of this you mentioned is similar is the bair. I found that Samus her nair is a decent replacement to it in some situations, although admittedly not as good. The advantage of teaching myself to prefer nair over bair in similar situations is that my bair has a lot more killing power when I actually need it. I can imagine this is even more valid on Kirby, as he doesn't have any projectile spam to clear up his stale move queue.

tl;dr: save your killing moves to kill, try to find alternatives to situations where you would normally use your killing move when you're just racking up damage to keep it fresh.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

That sounds like a nice tip! I used Samus in brawl, but I can't seem to use her very well at all in smash 4. Same with Ness. I think one of my weaknesses is I tend to overspecialize and I end up just using one character, mainly.

 

[TuigiX]

use your down tilt A LOT as soon as it makes then trip go for the FSmash. It takes a bit of reaction but it pays off if you can see it!

 

[-Jax]

That sounds like a nice tip! I used Samus in brawl, but I can't seem to use her very well at all in smash 4. Same with Ness. I think one of my weaknesses is I tend to overspecialize and I end up just using one character, mainly.

I think most people want to specialize in one character anyway, I'm trying to play a bit more of Rosalina & Luma cause they seem a lot of fun, but I usually end up picking Dedede or Samus because I know I'll have a bigger chance of winning with them. It gets hard to not give a damn about your lower winrate when learning a new character.

Out of interest, what drew you to kirby? You seem pretty dedicated to him and I never found him very appealing. Could be because my friend mained him so I know what he has to offer though.

 

[SmileyStation]

I think most people want to specialize in one character anyway, I'm trying to play a bit more of Rosalina & Luma cause they seem a lot of fun, but I usually end up picking Dedede or Samus because I know I'll have a bigger chance of winning with them. It gets hard to not give a damn about your lower winrate when learning a new character.

Out of interest, what drew you to kirby? You seem pretty dedicated to him and I never found him very appealing. Could be because my friend mained him so I know what he has to offer though.

People who main kirby generally just use him because they like the character alot. Unfortunately thats why alot of kirby players dont do well competitvely. Its always good to have some counterpicks handy just in case. Brawl gave kirby alot of aweful matchups. *Cough* G&W *Cough* >.>

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I've been a fan of the Kirby series ever since the first Kirby game came out. I had a rough time growing up, but the Kirby games always brought me the most joy during tough times. This has also green a really rough year for me as well, and I played Triple deluxe brought me some peace of mind too. So I guess I have a bit of a sentimental attachment to the pink lump. I've played as Kirby in smash since Smash 64. Subconsciously, I guess the smash bros series is like a Kirby Fighters: Featuring the Nintendo Cast, to me.

The Metroid series is my second favorite Nintendo series as well. Samus is usually my secondary in the Smash games, but I always struggle to use her effectively.

This is going to sound lame, but out of my group of friends. I'm the best at smash, but that doesn't feel like enough to me. I want to be better. Maybe is a low self esteem thing, ah well. I don't want to be the best, and not really interested in attending tourneys, but would like to be able to hold my own somewhat against some competitive players I guess. I figure the only way I can get better is to play against and learn from people who are better than me!

Wow, that was a lot, much more than I needed to explain, sorry for all that!

 

[SmileyStation]

When the wii U comes out we should do what we did in brawl. We should get each others sn or whatever it is for wii u and play each other. I know i played slayerjuan and asdioh a bit during that time and i think viper but i dont remember.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I'd like that! As long as you don't mind playing against a mediocre player! (Hubris, what's that?)

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Wow Rosalinas. I don't even know what to do against those! Anybody have any advice? I can win against bad one, but it's still an up hill battle for me with that luma around, and then when luma dies. Rosalina's stalls until it respawns. I feel like Kirby's air speed doesn't really help me either. I should just rename this thread "Durock asks for advice" haha.

 

[WootSnorlax]

Correct me if I'm wrong but It honestly seems like you are just having trouble adapting to other people's play in general and not just against certain matchups. Just keep playing and when you get frustrated especially against one specific matchup start taking a look at the pros and cons of the character. How many matches have you played so far? Did you only start getting competitive recently?

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I can't really say I'm competitive since I don't go to tournaments, though I did play brawl with some competitive players back when it came out. You're probably right in that play styles could be a big part of it, but I did learn the quickest back when I played with those folks and got advice from them afterwards.

Usually I'd watch a video and read forums to get ideas of what I could do for certain match ups and play styles, while trying to keep to my own playstyle, but since there's so few vids right now. I have to ask questions.

I guess it doesn't really help that I don't know the other characters too well either.

Stat wise I have around 176 battles in for glory, out of those 109 are victories. Among friends, I've lost count, but they're not competitive at all, and don't really care about improving so much. I guess what I can learn from them though is how to try to deal with predictability and projectile spam.

 

[WootSnorlax]

I see, well when it comes to playing online there isn't much you can do except keep playing. You'll lose some matches and you'll win some. Not everyone will predictable for you and some you can just read like a book. Hopefully when the wii u version comes out it will be a lot better hah.

Now if you were to play against people in real life it would be ten times better because of the feedback you can get from them. It is easier for us to analyze what you are doing right or wrong when we can see it in person. Right now it seems that you have so much trouble with many different characters. It is hard for people to just throw you information as the meta game is still in it's infancy and match-ups are still unknown. Just remember that Kirby's fsmash, dsmash, usmash, and bair kill at around 130%. Everything else you will have to learn and adapt to for now. Also Asdioh's videos really help!

Don't get me wrong though, it's good that you're asking questions! More questions = more discussions! Try to pinpoint what exactly is it you have trouble with the most though. Patience is really important in this game and especially so when it comes to playing Kirby.

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Thanks! I really appreciate what you just said. It's much better than the "git gud" crap I get on gamefaqs! Also those numbers about kill percents are great to know!