GwJ's Findings

[GwJ]

I haven't really watched the forums as much as I used to so I apologize if anything I note here is common knowledge already, but there's stuff that changed since Brawl, obviously, and I'm going to note below general stuff I noticed that's different. (custom stuff isn't being included here)

We all know ROB's stock Up B is objectively weaker since it has a massive horizontal movement nerf, and while the whole "tap b repeatedly to get more bang for your buck in fuel" thing seems to be nerfed as well, it doesn't appear to be AS nerfed as I thought it was. (Potato phone video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62dNo7dbosI)

While in Brawl, it felt like you were able to get about 100% more lift by tapping, in Smash 4 it appears to be about 67%-ish. I was able to get a little bit higher than in the video, but that was by tapping an ungodly amount.
​

ROB cannot autocancel his dair when he moves off the stage, dairs, then moves onto the stage again. If you try that here, ROB will end up below the stage as there's more time before he can start moving horizontally again.

If the opponent does not DI, ROB's Dthrow -> Uair is a true combo on Ganon at 110%+
If the opponent does not DI, ROB's Dthrow -> Uair is a true combo on Mario until 84% inclusive

Nair is no longer a viable kill move

Bair isn't as bad as I thought it was. I think it's worse than Brawl's easily since there's no hitbox in front of ROB, but it kills and the increased pop in horizontal movement it gives you makes it feel a little safer.

ROB's Uthrow is now like Kirby and MK's. If, on the descent, ROB's bottom would collide with another platform (such as one of the platforms on Battlefield), the throw will "land" on that platform instead of just clipping through the platform like it did in Brawl. This makes the Uthrow a more potent kill move on certain stages.

There's no lag on a short hopped Nair or Fair, and there is on a short hopped Uair and Bair.
Nair is ROB's least laggy on land aerial move.

Uair is a more potent kill move now that it has the first hitbox that pops the enemy up.

You can no longer B-reverse the gyro on the ground. Instead, it'll just make ROB roll in the direction you inputted now.

You can B-reverse everything else exactly like you could in Brawl.

Fthrow and Bthrow are no longer kill moves, leaving us with just Uthrow.

If you bair into your opponent and they hit the front of you, they're still sent backwards.

Gyro moves back and forth when it's grounded and still spinning

Laser doesn't travel as far.

Side B is a lot better. It's safer on hit and the last hit knocks the opponent far enough away that they cannot hit you before you recover. It also technically can kill at high enough percents.

If you read your opponent properly, short hop into side-b can be a viable response depending on the situation.

The sourspot on Dair seems to be bigger, but I cannot verify that now.


I'm sure I'll find more, but these are my initial findings. Long story short, Uair da bess

 

[Syde7]

10th post for link.

Ah, good to see that someone else has similar findings to my assessment I posted in the General Discussion thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-general-discussion.367269/page-11#post-18139537
A few differences, most notably about N-air being a viable kill move.

 

[GwJ]

Why do you think it's a kill move? When I've used it, it hasn't really come close to killing even in the 100%+ range. I feel like the only time it can kill is when your opponent is really high up and you're not able to just Uair them.

 

[Syde7]

Why do you think it's a kill move? When I've used it, it hasn't really come close to killing even in the 100%+ range. I feel like the only time it can kill is when your opponent is really high up and you're not able to just Uair them.

Not saying I disagree with you. Just that I noticed it was a difference in our assessments. I'm actually inclined to agree with you. Functionally, I see it as a comparable kill move as it was in Brawl simply bc of how I happened to use it, in such a way that it staled and wasn't a great KO move in Brawl bc of that; and it being not a great KO move in Sm4sh bc of the nerf in that regard.

More succinctly: Your assessment was empirically correct. I was stating that it was comparable in KO power to Brawl's, bc it was often times staled for me, and that staled state is comparable to its unstaled state in Sm4sh. So, In that particular facet, I was speaking from "my playstle" perspective as opposed to raw data, which I shouldn't have.

 

[GwJ]

All good, I was just curious.

 

[GwJ]

Some more stuff I gathered:

As was the case with one of Chibo's matches apparently, you can pull down an opponent with the middle hits of ROB's Uair. I wasn't able to get a meteor, but from what I saw, whatever direction ROB is moving in is the direction the middle hits will pull the opponent towards. Move down and it'll pull down, move right and it'll move right, etc.

A fully charged gyro travels a smidge more than 50% of Battlefield's length.
A no-charge gyro travels about 1/3 of the way into the circle in the middle of Battlefield (the circle on the floor that glows and stuff)
The more you charge it, the further it can go up to the outer edge of the circle (maybe like 65% of the length of BF). A GYRO CHARGED ALMOST FULLY GOES FURTHER THAN A FULLY CHARGED GYRO (Think DK's punch)

As we should all be aware, the gyro drifts to the left and right when it's on the ground (after it was shot from ROB, not thrown). I shot it 50 times facing left and 50 times facing right to see if it ended up left, right, or in the center of the landing point. Here's my data:

Facing Right:

Left: 9
Right: 26
Center: 13

Facing Left:

Left: 16
Right: 18
Center: 16

This data looks odd, doesn't it? When facing right, there's a clear bias towards moving to the right, or away, from R.O.B. Very significant in fact, a 52% chance of moving right, 18% moving left, and 26% staying centered.

However, look at facing left. 32% to move left, or away, from ROB. 36% to move right, or towards, ROB, and 32% to stay centered.

The first test shows a clear bias and the second test is basically completely evenly split. My conclusion is that the direction of the drift is really just pure RNG. I don't think there's any specific direction it's more likely to go. If there IS a bias, it would appear to be a slight inclination to move right.

If the gyro drifts in the same direction the entire time it's able to drift (something like 80%-ish of its active time), then it can travel about 120% of the radius of the circle in the center of BF.

How long is the gyro still active (before it goes poof and vanishes) from the moment it lands on the ground (timing starts when it stops bouncing and is stable):
Full charge: 7.25-7.50 seconds
No charge: 5.00-5.25
Intermediary times rise proportionally.

Gyro damage after it's already landed on the ground (when it's spinning in place):
Strong (majority of the hitbox time, like 65%): 5%
Weak (rest of the time): 2%
Middlepoint: 7%

There are a few frames between the point where the gyro does 5% and when it does 2% where it will do 7%. There are audio cues to how much damage it does to help you know when you got it. Strong and weak sound different. Middlepoint either sounds like weak or is unique as well.

How much horizontal movement does ROB have using his UpB?
I gauged this one by standing on the leftmost edge of BF and using the UpB as far as I could and measuring it as a proportion of BF.
If you hold the B button during his UpB, ROB travels the horizontal distance of 55% of BF before landing
If you tap the B button during his UpB, ROB travels the horizontal disance of about 110%, double of holding

Fully charged side B can travel up to about 50% of the length of BF.
ROB's full jump has a horizontal movement of about 110% of the circle's diameter on BF assuming ROB starts and ends on the same vertical plane.

ROB's roll is about 60% of the circle on BF.

 

[Mister Eric]

You can no longer B-reverse the gyro on the ground. Instead, it'll just make ROB roll in the direction you inputted now.

You sure? I can still do it. And it's even easier when I have a fully charged gyro. But I can do it even without fully charged. The input is just more strict. Go test it out.

Some more stuff I gathered:
As was the case with one of Chibo's matches apparently, you can pull down an opponent with the middle hits of ROB's Uair. I wasn't able to get a meteor, but from what I saw, whatever direction ROB is moving in is the direction the middle hits will pull the opponent towards. Move down and it'll pull down, move right and it'll move right, etc.

Makes me wonder about catching someone with an up-air, fast falling to the ground before it ends, and trying to string something else with it.

The more you charge it, the further it can go up to the outer edge of the circle (maybe like 65% of the length of BF). A GYRO CHARGED ALMOST FULLY GOES FURTHER THAN A FULLY CHARGED GYRO (Think DK's punch)

I tried finding something like that in Brawl and never could. Great find!

As we should all be aware, the gyro drifts to the left and right when it's on the ground (after it was shot from ROB, not thrown). I shot it 50 times facing left and 50 times facing right to see if it ended up left, right, or in the center of the landing point. Here's my data:

Facing Right:

Left: 9
Right: 26
Center: 13

Facing Left:

Left: 16
Right: 18
Center: 16

This data looks odd, doesn't it? When facing right, there's a clear bias towards moving to the right, or away, from R.O.B. Very significant in fact, a 52% chance of moving right, 18% moving left, and 26% staying centered.

However, look at facing left. 32% to move left, or away, from ROB. 36% to move right, or towards, ROB, and 32% to stay centered.

The first test shows a clear bias and the second test is basically completely evenly split. My conclusion is that the direction of the drift is really just pure RNG. I don't think there's any specific direction it's more likely to go. If there IS a bias, it would appear to be a slight inclination to move right.

I really wonder if it's RNG. I will play with this myself as well.
It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't.

How much horizontal movement does ROB have using his UpB?

I wonder what the distance is if you up b > fair > repeat.

Or if you face your back in the direction you want to travel and dair.
I will play around with that stuff too.

Thanks for all the help.


Edit: We honestly need a general compilation thread for all of ROB's new findings and tricksies.
Idk whether to post stuff that I know here, or save it for elsewhere. Idc really, I just want ppl to be able to find it.

 

[Syde7]

Regarding the U-air and pulling the opponent in a certain direction:
I've had moderate success (may just be an inadequacy in my opponent) with a falling U-air or SH U-air into the opponent making sure to hit only with the weaker hits, reading which direction they are shifted to and following up with an F-smash in that direction for (often times) a KO. Tried it with a standing & running U-smash with less success ,though its still somewhat do-able, I think... don't quote me on that. I've much more success with the F-mash because of the distance it covers.

Falling U-air is safer but there's more variables in terms of how far they'll go in what direction so the success rate once you land the hits isn't terribly high.

SH U-air is less safe due to the opponent being able to shield & get a grab punish or other OoS option, but have found a higher success rate once you land the hits.

 

[GwJ]

Does anyone know if you have ending lag on SH Uair? I know a falling Uair probably will depending on how early you started it, but not sure with SH Uair.

 

[Mister Eric]

Does anyone know if you have ending lag on SH Uair? I know a falling Uair probably will depending on how early you started it, but not sure with SH Uair.

No landing lag if performed quick enough.