[Guide] Trapping the Prey: Snake 3.5 Matchup thread

BND

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
174
#43

Also, Ftilt is his fastest move with a potentially large reward (I.E. not jab) out of crouch cancel, not necessarily the best.
 
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cisyphus

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
672
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
#44
Gonna just post this right here.

7:3 Wario
Relatively sluggish movement, a lack of projectiles, and only moderate punishes possible on Snake makes Wario struggle considerably in the matchup if the Snake chooses to space out Wario with safe moves like grenade, upb, back air, and nair. Meanwhile Snake's combos on Wario and control of the stage make for an easy time eliminating stocks.
7:3 Bowser
Bowser has much the same difficulty as Wario in that his lack of strong movement bogs him down against Snake. This difficulty alone isn't bad considering Bowser's strong punish game, but his immense size and combo weight make for an absolute nightmare against Snake's throw combos, aerial juggles, and disruptive multi-hit attacks.
7:3 Jigglypuff
Jigglypuff again lacks any strong projectile to combat Snake and similarly falters in vertical mobility. A great boon to her matchup against Snake is her difficult combo weight and low profile, preventing a large amount of Snake's big punishes. However, that weight also makes for extremely early KOs off the top—Snake's mainstay method of kills—vastly rewarding a Snake for playing conservatively and carefully against a Jigglypuff who frankly struggles to find any answers.

6:4 Yoshi
Yoshi gets combo'd hard in this MU, provided the Snake is cognizant of the double jump armor and works to bait and punish it. Apart from that, Yoshi lacks any concrete methods of dispelling Snake's projectile walls and struggles to find a good way in. Additionally, getting a C4 means death for Yoshi considering its ability to break DJ armor even at low percents, making gimps against Yoshi extremely potent. One C4 into a back throw off stage is a stock against Yoshi. Yoshi's juggling and sharp edgeguarding play tilt the matchup ever so slightly back into a doable range, however.
6:4 Wolf
The major problem that Wolf encounters is Snake's frightening punish game: chain grabs guaranteed to 80% as well as a vast array of edgeguarding tools and tactics make quick work of Wolf's stocks all too often. Similarly, Wolf's main projectile is slow and unassuming as well as lacking in usefulness considering Snake's low-profile crouch eliminating the omnipresent SH laser WD approaches common to Wolf's gameplay. Once Wolf gets in, he has to take the stock to death, or else Snake is sure to live much, much longer.
6:4 Ice Climbers
Ice Climbers plainly struggle in 3.6 due to the loss of numerous elements of their punish game. Combine this with Nana's shoddy AI and Snake's apt control of the stage via projectiles, and it becomes near impossible for Icies to close out a stock, devolving play into campfests into grab punishes on both sides, tending to favor Snake in the end.
6:4 Zelda
Zelda's lack of movement and extreme floatiness are again the core problem of the matchup, although her punishes on Snake, when refined, are quite devastating, it's difficult to resolve many of the issues present in the gameplan should Snake be aware of these options. He's quite content to bait out side-b's and neutralizes them without difficulty in order to continue the extended neutral game.
6:4 Ganondorf
Ganondorf can only win if the Snake gets impatient or inaccurate. Burst movement and interesting techchase concepts via Ganon's specials make for a less imbalanced matchup than expected, but a mid-combo weight and relatively linear recovery make the punishes Snake has on Ganon nearly match Ganon's own punishes on Snake. Without projectiles and without disjoint, Ganon can struggle against a patient Snake's solid neutral game walls.
6:4 Squirtle
Squirtle is extremely light with an extremely bad defensive gameplan: terrible rolls and mediocre attack speed overall create a lot of issues when faced with Snake's down throw. Without that fact, Squirtle would win the matchup 4:6 through his extremely strong ground movement, solid projectile array, low profile to avoid many of Snake's options, and strong punishes against Snake in all realms of the game. However, a single grab from Snake against Squirtle is essentially a guaranteed loss of stock provided the Snake is smart about his techchase.
6:4 Zero Suit Samus
Fastfalling with a tether recovery is not a good look for ZSS here: Snake chaingrabs for a free 50%, ducks her projectile, and punishes any bit of off-stage inaccuracy dearly. Compound this with an inability to consistently land kill moves against a character that struggles to find the blast zones, and the matchup becomes increasingly hopeless for ZSS. Her boon therefore becomes the presence of a projectile and disjoint to combat Snake's projectiles and actually approach and punish him.
6:4 Kirby
Kirby struggles without a reliable projectile or noticeable disjoint as well as a relatively slow ground speed and a pitiful vertical air speed, resulting in Snake effectually being able to remain untouchable above Kirby for the duration of a set. Snake essentially plays keep away and forces Kirby to constantly approach and vie for a trade, which granted Kirby has a knack for obtaining and closing stocks out. Once Snake gets a stock lead, he should never lose.
6:4 Dedede
Yet another heavy that struggles to do anything against Snake: Dedede's access to a projectile only minimally helps as he mostly lacks a neutral game at long range to deal with Snake. Add into this Dedede's fast falling speed and large size and Dedede gets punished extremely hard by Snake while threatening very little against Snake.
6:4 Roy
Despite Snake's marked difficulty against other sword/disjointed characters, Roy is far easier for Snake to deal with than others. His mediocre recovery and poor fall speed make punishes on Roy hurt every time Snake touches him while Roy's punishes simply do not compare to other Fire Emblem characters' against Snake. Roy devolves to gimmicks and reads to combat Snake, who needs only patience and punishes.
6:4 G&W
Game and Watch struggles in much the same way that Roy does, although it comes more from his extreme floatiness combined with key exploits and baits from Snake. G&W's only OOS option puts him extremely high on the map—perfect for a C4 KO—. His long-lasting hitboxes struggle against Snake's explosives (grenades in particular). His mediocre ground speed compounds that issue, and Snake's down throw absolutely ruins G&W's pitiful defensive options, forcing many difficult circumstances throughout. Should the Snake play smart, G&W should never have a chance to use his fabled RNG-combos.

5:5 Peach
Peach is a very odd matchup that requires quite a lot of precision from Snake overall, but seems entirely doable. Item play can be a really major focus if the Snake chooses to platform camp, which tends to be the most potent strategy given Peach's extremely poor vertical momentum. On the other hand, a ground based game vs. Peach requires a competent method of dealing with turnips and quick punishes on Peach's laggier moves (turnip pull, down smash). Peach is extremely floaty and dies off the top incredibly early, a fact to be abused greatly by Snake. Her hitboxes, shield pressure, and edgeguarding swing the matchup to be very manageable and frightening on both sides.
5:5 DK
Donkey Kong's massive hurtbox and fast fall speed are at the core of his difficulties in the matchup. His decent ground speed and solid grab punish opportunities swing this heavily into his favor, however, as do his defensive options and capabilities.
5:5 Falcon
Literally the only thing Falcon has against Snake is maneuverability. A Snake savvy to all of Falcon's tricks can beat out his aerials with grenades, movement, a strong shield game, and his own hitboxes and Falcon's grab straight loses to Snake's crouch. Meanwhile, Snake's punishes on Falcon are absolutely massive and include chaingrabs up to around 70%, easy techchases, even easier edgeguards, and reliable kill setups off the top and off the sides. Falcon meanwhile needs momentum alone to carry Snake off stage for a KO. It's a volatile matchup where it theoretically is in Snake's favor, but requires more precision than Falcon's gameplan, resulting in a more or less even game. That said, Falcon can die off of a single grab regardless of percent and has to be careful and smart.
5:5 Falco
Contemporary Falco concepts like laser zoning, shield pressure, and cheeky combos are actually extremely difficult against Snake, who tends to have good answers to all of these things. All but Falco's lowest SH laser whiff against Snake's crouch, which begs a more committal approach from Falco, which invites Snake to react and punish—and the punishes here are absolutely massive on both sides. It comes down to reactions and reads, and Snake more often than not simply lives longer than Falco does, making up for the more prevalent dependency on reads required of him.
5:5 Sheik
Before 3.6, this was a hard matchup for Snake due to the throw mixups. It was difficult to ever call Sheik's choices 100% of the time, but now the DI is simplified and Sheik has to work much harder for her KOs. Meanwhile, Snake's punishes on Sheik and his neutral game against her are as strong as ever, with guaranteed KO setups omnipresent and edgeguarding simplified to "throw off stage, back air, back air, dead." Mind you, the reverse is true, and with Sheik's techchasing, it tends to be easier to get into that situation. The problem of course lies in getting that grab, as Snake duck's under Sheik's standing grab, meaning dash grab is the riskier but more rewarding choice more often than not. Invariably, Snake's stronger grasp on the neutral makes up for Sheik's slightly stronger edgeguarding tree and the matchup rests even.
5:5 Link
Campfest 101. get ready to trade hits and throw projectiles for 7 minutes, otherwise you'll be comboed to death as Link. Link has all of the tools to deal with Snake's anti-aggression metagame: a wealth of strong projectiles with subtly different counters, disjoint via his sword, and even a shield to block rouge tranq attempts. However, his weight is a core issue that haunts the matchup. Combine that with his somewhat laggy options and the matchup gets increasingly hard once Snake closes the gap. However, at a distance, Link is almost certainly the favorite.
5:5 Mewtwo
Mewtwo emulates Link in a lot of ways, but has the benefit of not getting comboed to death by Snake in exchange for a loss of some utility via projectiles. Shadow Ball is useful, but not nearly to the same extent. Mewtwo's solid hitboxes and burst movement make camping with Snake quite difficult, but Snake's punishes on Mewtwo and Mewtwo's large hurtbox size put greater emphasis on Snake's stage control with mines, C4, and grenades—all of which start to KO Mewtwo incredibly early.
5:5 Lucario
And then Lucario is a sort of median between Link and Mewtwo in the sense that he lacks many of Link's tools to keep Snake out, but has all the tools to punish Snake once he gets in. If the Snake isn't aware of Lucario's myriad options and mixups, or is too dependent on the out of shield game, he's going to get hurt. That said, Lucario is of the same basic combo weight as Link, which Snake just eats up at low to middle percents. Another volatile matchup, certainly.
5:5 Charizard
Charizard suffers a lot from his relatively floaty combo weight in tandem with his considerably large hurtbox, creating much the same scenario as Bowser in that Charizard gets comboed heavily and lacks a lot of the disjoint needed to successfully deal with Snake. However, Charizard has the boon of a much better overall recovery, increased ground speed, some valid and usable disjoint (nair, d-tilt, etc.) and an arguably more cohesive punish game which swings the matchup much closer to even overall.
5:5 Ivysaur
Crouch cancel is the single biggest counter to Ivysaur's gameplan against Snake. All of Ivysaur's quick moves are additionally quite weak and easy for Snake to CC into a punish at a vast array of percentages. The additional tether-only recovery works greatly against Ivysaur as it nets Snake a free punish every time Ivysaur is pushed off stage. Combine this with her floatiness and stocks disappear quickly for Ivysaur. That Said, Ivysaur has projectiles and disjoint to combat Snake in the neutral game and can use one mistake from Snake as a way to pry into him and exploit his combo weight fully, often resulting in a KO.
5:5 Samus
Samus is an interesting case in which Snake gets next to nothing off of his grabs against her, which dismantles a large portion of his game plan. However, a slow, tether recovery, predictable neutral game, and a somewhat lacking punish game still make the matchup entirely doable. Snake's stage control similarly locks down the movement heavy Samus style and completely discourages missile camping, while Snake is free to camp to his heart's content, more or less.
5:5 Ness
What Ness lacks in range he makes up for in combo and KO potential: Ness's hitboxes are super strong and super scary, nullifying many of Snake's assets as a defensive tank. Often Snake simply has to depend on abusing Ness's slow, committal double jump with platforms, limiting some of his options in the process.
5:5 Lucas
While Ness's combo game is intimidating, Lucas's is sheer terror. Well-placed PK Freezes and insane follow-ups via Magnet in addition to both a meteor and spike aerial option for edgeguarding create so many rough situations for Snake. On the reverse, Snake destroys Lucas once he gets a string going, and forcing a tether recovery means an imminent KO due to this same fact.
5:5 Metaknight
3.6 has been kind to MK. The transcendent sword, massive juggling opportunities, and relatively straightforward edgeguarding tree gives Snake some definite difficulties to challenge the massive combo trees he gets on Metaknight's unfortunate combo weight. Metaknight will work to force Snake off stage whereas Snake wants to keep the fight on the ground as much as possible, making this a high-tension matchup.
5:5 Olimar
I haven't honestly played this MU enough, but Olimar's disjoint and projectiles make me think his floatiness and subpar recovery don't really matter that much. It kinda feels like Ivysaur a lot of the time.

4:6 Mario
Mario is a tough nut for Snake to crack. His weight discourages combos to some degree, his recovery is wonky and unpredictable at times, his fireballs are disruptive and hard to work around, and his punish game on Snake is absolutely enormous. Take care and patience with this one.
4:6 Luigi
Luigi similarly disrupts a lot of what Snake normally wants to do, but can't just "do Luigi things" against Snake at the same time. Waveland tilts have to be sure to hit, otherwise it begs Snake to tranq and punish. Nair can break out of combos extremely well, but snake can just as easily wait it out and space out a c4 or back air. Down B has some unique combo opportunities but again is threatened by tranq. Luigi does best to play carefully and conservatively, opting to punish Snake's lag and downtime while abuse Luigi's solid edgeguards and aerial gameplay.
4:6 Diddy
4:6 Fox

Fox is in much the same position as Falcon in this matchup but has the benefit of lasers to disrupt grenades and mines, a better grab game, and arguably stronger edgeguarding prowess for when Snake sneaks through KO setup percentages. However, the punish game on Fox is even worse than against Falcon due to the increased potency of chaingrabs and throw combos in general. Overall, Fox needs to play a safe and secured neutral or he's done for.
4:6 Toon Link
4:6 Pit
4:6 Pikachu
4:6 Ike
4:6 Marth
4:6 ROB
4:6 Sonic
 
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BND

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
174
#45
...Might as well.
Note: Any character that I haven't played against (I.E. a lot) on a semi-regular basis, or that I haven't theorycrafted significantly for, gets question marks. It also assumes a good understanding of the given matchup, based on my current understanding of the game, and that both players try to a reasonable extent. Might be updated if I feel like it.

(I haven't played a local version of 3.6 yet so this is based on 3.5 Snake, with placement with regards to buffs/nerfs interpolated.)

7:3 Ganon (on average; up to 8:2, possibly more, depending on ruleset and if you're a terrible person. Otherwise 6:4)

6:4 Roy
6:4 ZSS
6:4 Jiggs
6:4 Ike

5:5 Ivysaur
5:5 Sheik
5:5 Sonic
5:5 Fox
5:5 Falco
5:5 Kirby

4:6 Marth
4:6 Link
4:6 Pikachu
4:6 Wario

3:7 Luigi
3:7 Mario

??? Dedede
??? ROB
??? Pit
??? Toon Link
??? Diddy
??? Squirtle
??? Olimar
??? Ness
??? Lucas
??? Samus
??? Lucario
??? Mewtwo
??? Falcon
??? DK
??? Peach
??? G&W
??? Meta Knight
??? Zelda
??? ICs
??? Charizard
??? Wolf
??? Yoshi
??? Bowser
 
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Kneato

Totoro Joe
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
395
#49
Matchup from :snake:'s Perspective (+3 has Snake winning)

+3:
+2::bowser2::popo:
+1::charizard::olimar::yoshi2::zerosuitsamus::ganondorf:
0::lucas::link2:
:dedede::wolf::roypm::ike::falcon::lucario:
-1::toonlink::mewtwopm::gw::kirby2::squirtle::rob::pikachu2::luigi2::pit::zelda::ness2::dk2:
-2::fox::falco::metaknight::marth::samus2::sheik::peach::mario2::ivysaur:
-3:

?: :jigglypuff::sonic::wario:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

Not my opinion. This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.
 
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