• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Grounded Footstool Combo(s)

hyperstation

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
Brooklyn
Required Reading for Class: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197100 , by Godismyrock

First of all, I hope this is new. I was very excited to find this. I've never come across any information about footstool techs for Ganon before, and after reading Godismyrock's excellent thread (with videos) above, I decided to go to work. Except for use over the edge for the slowest spike KO ever (joke), I don't make much use of footstools in my game, but after reading the above thread last night, I was lying in bed thinking about how ganon might incorporate this tech.

Godismyrock correctly states that in order to use this, a character must have a momentum altering or halting aerial. The most obvious in my mind was Lucario's dair, for instance. In terms of ganon, I obviously thought of the aerial wizard kick...and guess what...it works. It works really well, in fact.

The best testing I've done is on lvl 9 cpus, but I'm nearly confident this is a new true combo for Ganon. The cool down/stun on a footstool is universal, I believe, and every character I've tested it on works flawlessly.

The timing on the move is pretty lenient. The optimal timing is a wizard kick just pixels above the footstooled character's head. This yields 15% damage and pops them upwards, like any aerial wizard kick. However, if you input the wizard kick too late, the character can get a shield out in time. Every time a CPU got its shield out, the quake effect of the wizard kick still got them (under their shield, I suppose).

This seems pretty viable in game. One of the best attributes to ganon's game, tech chasing, could see this incorporated seamlessly. Whenever a character ends up right in front or behind you in a tech chase, double tap jump really quickly and slam down+B, then get back to the chase. The tech seems especially viable at mid-high percentages as the pop-up from the quake will be more significant, keep ganon well spaced during his landing lag.

A final note: watch the video Godismyrock made and look at how you can use it to shut down MK's glide. His glide attack is one of his few KO moves, so there's a chance we can start to limit his options with this. Difficult to do, I imagine, but if one starts to place emphasis on this move, it would become second nature and might in fact act as a good counter to that nasty glide attack...you never know.

P.S. - would you all be interested in a tech video showing correct wiz kick cancelling off stage and on stage, SHFFed fairs and nairs, and this footstool tech? I'll make it if someone will capture the footage for me so I can upload it.
 

Gleam

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
654
Location
Burlington, NC
Once again, Ganondorf just gets better and better. Looks like I've got more things to put in my List now because of this.
 

Swoops

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,000
Location
Tempe, AZ
NNID
SwoopsTii
>_> Not too burst your bubble but the footstool to wizkick thing has been brought up before...I just dont know why no one kept the info going, but thanks for posting this stuff up. One thing I have thought of is at 0%, stomp>footstool>wizkick. I havent tried it on a human but it might be useful...it sure looks f*cking cool.

Looking forward to that video though.
 

hyperstation

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
Brooklyn
No bubbles have been burst, my friend. I figured that somewhere along the line this was brought up, but I hadn't seen it.

Another thing I thought about was that one can footstool out of a hit that trips your opponent. I can't think of any offhand that would definitely qualify, but I believe that a gerudo would qualify. I need to do testing. I bring this up because you mention the stomp>footstool. As it is hard to footstool a moving target, it would be good to figure out how we might use this combo in tandem with other techniques such as dair and gerudo. I think that the footstooling tech can get pretty rich, and I'll do my best to unpack everything for which we might use it. If anyone encounters another use, please post it here.

Whatchu got, Swoops? I know something in that big ganon data-spreadsheet of yours will shed some light on this tech.
 

Swoops

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,000
Location
Tempe, AZ
NNID
SwoopsTii
Gerudo>footstool would work as a mindgame follow up for gerudo, but I don't think I could see it working as anything else. Hmm...I'm gonna do some testing of d-tilt>footstool. D-Tilt puts them at such an awesome disadvantage at earlier percents that it has great follow ups. D-tilt, gerudo, u-air, dash attack, wizkick, stomp, grab, u-smash...all are great follow ups that can be mixed up after an early percent d-tilt...I'll see if footstool is one to add to that list.

Out of trips would be kinda cool...but Ganon rarely forces trips :p, except with decayed moves. Besides I'd rather have a gerudo or stomp off of a trip, but it's there if a trip occurs.
 

hyperstation

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
Brooklyn
I found out something potentially useful today. At low percentages, following the wiz kick out of the footstool, your opponent with be launched either in front or behind you a small amount. Since there's lag on the kick, you have time to read the direction in which your opponent is being launched, then do a stutter step fsmash that's tilted down. It hits the opponent while he's still laying on the ground and pops them up in the air for some juggling.

This is by no means a guaranteed followup. In fact, the footstool tactic is perhaps better at mid-high percentages as quake will bounce your opponent up higher, allowing you safety during it's landing lag, but I decided it was worth mentioning nonetheless. I am pretty sure that some (all?) characters can air dodge during the bounce from quake to recover, and not land flat on the ground, but it's my experience that one of the footstool combo's greatest assets is the element of surprise. The whole thing happens so fast, and no opponent I've used it on has reacted before they're already laying on the ground.

On that note...yes, I've managed to use it in game several times. It's actually not that hard to incorporate at all. It requires foresight for certain spacing situations which make the footstool part especially easy to set up. I had a few wifi matches recently where I used the footstool combo effectively at various percents as part of my tech chasing game, but the games exceeded 3:00 so I couldn't save them to show you guys. Hopefully I'll have a replay soon that incorporates it.
 

mariofanpm12

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
997
Location
Louisiana
Like Gleam said, Ganondorf just seems to get better and better, little by little, slowly but steadily.

If we keep this up, then maybe, just maybe...
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
6,416
Location
Miamisburg, OH
NNID
Fromundaman
3DS FC
2105-9186-1496
Okay, nooblet question time! Are Guerudo and FC the same thing? I've been looking all over the forums for this but can't seem to find it, so I figured I should just ask and get called a noob after all. (If so, would that work with footstooling? It seems like it would be very difficult to time that perfectly...)
 

Swoops

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
1,000
Location
Tempe, AZ
NNID
SwoopsTii
Yea they are the same thing. Some call it murder choke ala sliq, some say flame choke or FC, and some like me choose not to say the gay combination of words, "Flame Choke," and use the good old fashioned word Gerudo.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
6,416
Location
Miamisburg, OH
NNID
Fromundaman
3DS FC
2105-9186-1496
All right, thanks very much for the info!

But can't they get up from that faster than you could footstool them? (I'm asking though I haven't tried, as I don't have internet at my house, thus can't go check and post again today.)
 
Top Bottom