Grappling Bowser: Some changes to Bowser's Side B

[Blue Mage]

With the coming of Roy, I sense that we can see another balance change, and changes in general in the future of P:M.

I am really loving Bowser in P:M currently, and one of the things I love about him is his Side B. It makes me feel like I am playing a grappler, which is my most favorite character archetype in fighting games. While playing, I thought of some ideas that would give Bowser more options off of his command throw, and hopefully improve his game.

So, here's my suggested changes:

• Side B now has 2 versions depending on how hard the stick is pressed (like Samus' Missile)

Tilt + B: Has a larger grab box and it comes out very fast. The claw swipe comes out fast and doesn't send them very far, so it can be combo'd after. However, tilt + b grabs can only armor 1 weak hit, and they don't do much damage, and claw swipe has no armor.

Smash + B: Small grab box, comes out slow, but the grabs do more damage, knockback, and can armor through any hit. The claw swipe comes out slow, but does a lot of damage, good knockback, and can armor against 1 weak hit, but offers no combo potential.

• Up and Down options for Side B

Side B + Up: Bowser performs a backbreaker style grab, where he puts the opponent above his head, jumps up into the air, and slams them over his shoulders when he crashes to the ground. Bowser then tosses them aside and they land on the ground far away. This throw does the most damage out of all his throws, but it does not offer many combo options.

Side B + Down: Bowser performs the old Side B he had from Brawl, only with a few tweaks. He doesn't jump as high and he cannot move around in the air. When Bowser slams the opponent on the ground, they will stay on the ground in an untechable knockdown instead of flying away. Bowser recovers faster than the opponent, so he can keep them guessing as they get up off the ground.

• Side B in the air is now different

When Bowser catches someone in the air with a Side B, he will now throw them straight down to the floor. The opponent will bounce when they hit the floor, but they have the chance to tech it when they hit the ground. Bowser can combo off of this when they miss the tech if he's close enough to the ground. This grab will stop Bowser's air momentum, and is affected by tilting or smashing the stick.

This last change isn't related to Side B, but I thought I would stick it here anyway.

• Being able to jump-cancel Bowser Bomb in the air, and canceling it gives him an extra jump in the air (like Falcon and Ganon's Down B).

Having Bowser Bomb be jump cancelable (only during the very first part of the move, not while Bowser is falling) would allow Bowser some more air options. It would allow him to air stall, and fake the opponent out by going for fake Bombs. Adding an extra jump after the down B would help with Bowser's somewhat awful recovery.

These are all the changes I've thought up. Any thoughts or ideas? I don't know if these are any good, but I love the thought of playing a legit grappler in Smash.

 

[Blue Mage]

(also sorry for the random small text. I dunno why that happened. I tried to fix it a billion times in the preview.)

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

So you would cancel Bowser's down B with a jump, additionally giving him an extra jump? or is the jump cancel the extra jump?

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

So you would cancel Bowser's down B with a jump, additionally giving him an extra jump? or is the jump cancel the extra jump?

I'd like to assume he wishes to give Bowser some kind of jump refresh similar to how Ganon gets a jump refresh on his aerial Ganon kick.

It would improve his recovery slightly, but I don't see such a change breaking the character, for it would be very linear and still easy to punish.

And I don't mean Bowser moving in a straight line. He should descend slightly with each jump cancel on his Bomber.

But not such a descent as to make the stall useless, but not to little that he can fly around the stage with obnoxious air hopping.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

The OP compared this would-be mechanic with Ganon or CF's, yet they have nothing to do the way they were explained. Such a mechanic would also in theory give Bowser infinite jumps since Down B startups can be cancelled with jumps..

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

The OP compared this would-be mechanic with Ganon or CF's, yet they have nothing to do the way they were explained. Such a mechanic would also in theory give Bowser infinite jumps since Down B startups can be cancelled with jumps..

Well, Samus has infinite jumps. But who complains about Samus?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Except Samus doesnt have infinite jumps

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

If Bowser had a Samus jump, it woudln't make him stupid because it would have a slow startup.

And that would make him easy to punish if people try to abuse it ON stage.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Except Samus doesnt have infinite jumps

What you're describing sounds like Samus's bomb jumping.

There's no limit to how many you can do. when trying to return to the stage.

 

[Blue Mage]

Hello everyone.

Sorry I wasn't very clear in my description. What I meant to say was that when he's expended all his mid-air jumps, his down B grants him 1 extra jump.

I was a bit reluctant to add this change in though. The main one was that I wanted air Down B to be jump cancelable, but I decided to add on the jump change as well.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I really don't get it. What does Bowser gain from practically getting 3 jumps? it seems a bit broken more than anything.

 

[Blue Mage]

I guess so.

Is there any way I can delete this thread? It's not going over as well as I would have hoped.

 

[Anonistry]

Please don't delete it yet. To be honest I think others are zooming in too much on this one suggestion that isn't even technically part of the main conversation, which is grappling Bowser. I can say that I'd love a grappling Bowser. In fact, I have to hand it to the Brawl- crew, I was jelly that they had, in fact, made just that (of course, with Brawl- power level, but hey. )

If any character was to become a command grappler of the classic Zangief-esque style, it'd be Bowser. He is slow, big, and has to work his way in. At least for me, there is no reward more fitting for that than succeeding and letting the other poor sob eat ground, hard. I'll admit, the biggest problem is and will be how different the multi-level nature of Brawl, and the fact that it is KO and not health out that determines victory, can affect a classic grappler style. Nonetheless, I'd just love it to death if we had one like that. Dedede has a sweet chain grab game, and the new Mewtwo coming up sounds like he will have the chance to play his own unique brand of grappler, but it still sometimes is just no substitute for being the big hulking guy whose biggest threat is a single move that scares the opponent's pants brown.

 

[Abeebo]

Don't feel embarrassed for suggesting your ideas, Mage. That's really all we non-pmbr members can do. We throw out all ideas and hope for the best.

Side B + Down: Bowser performs the old Side B he had from Brawl, only with a few tweaks. He doesn't jump as high and he cannot move around in the air. When Bowser slams the opponent on the ground, they will stay on the ground in an untechable knockdown instead of flying away. Bowser recovers faster than the opponent, so he can keep them guessing as they get up off the ground.

THIS would be so damn baller. The animation I can give or take, but the fact that the move puts the opponent in the knockdown position can be so damn rad for Bowser. Snake could be jealous. Only thing is that Bowser is way bigger than anything. So for him to (relatively)safely command you to be that close to him when you're laying down, it may or may not be an unfair tactic. BUT for that same reason, Bowser could have a unique mix-up to make more use of his slow-but-strong nature and he would be the baddest of asses. More so!

 

[Sea Buoy]

I think these are some pretty good ideas and gives Bowser a better identity as a in-your-face brawler. Bowser can be extremely strong in close range situation and would improve his gameplay because opponents would have to think twice before rushing him down. It would create almost a safe aura for Bowser that would change up the opponent's approach.

 

[Matthew]

I would give the up throw option (headbutt) of the koopa klaw grab the set knockback it had in melee. This would give bowser guaranteed finishers on spacies. I would also give Bowser armor on the aerial Koopa Klaw just like the grounded version.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I do like the side-b idea, nice innovation.

 

[geno]

Sounds pretty good! All I want though, is for the aerial Klaw to have a down throw option that hops Bowser up a little so it can be used as a risky, yet safe if landed, ultra stylish dunk.

 

[Anonistry]

It kind of hurts to have recently read that apparently side-b may just be what is being suggested in SSB4: reports suggest it can KO in as little as 100% (pretty theoretically damn little, given Bowser.)