Grand Viper, W-T-F.

[comboking]

hhaa

Especially considering your match vids, having playing Marth doesn't mean you were good at it.[/quote
your right

 

[Fizz-sama]

I know how to space perfectly, I was a Marth. =P

I mean, you can whiff the Quick Draw and then do any attack. Why the up tilt? They can shield just as easily as if you did a Quick Draw and then a forward tilt. And the up tilt isn't particularly fast.

Because his utilt is one of his quickest moves...

 

[Captain Sa10]

How about we name it:

"Oh sHIZ ITS DOCTOR TRAN!!!"

 

[Zareidriel]

"HE'S JUST HANDING OUT THE HOT DlCKINGS!!"

 

[Captain Sa10]

"dont For Get Those Hickory Smoked Horse Buttholes!!!"

 

[Timat the Slayer]

first off, naming an "approach" is lame in and of itself. I mean, it's character specific first off, not exactly an AMAZING approach (considering if the person is even slightly good they can kick the **** out of you for it), and seriously, you up tilt.

The fact it's even named is a problem, and the "grand viper" is a bad name. This isn't Guilty Gear, this is smash.

And if anybody wants to come back with "Well what about wavedashing?" I'd like to point out, I said 'Character Specific'. Wavedashing was possible with all characters, unlike this trash. It's not even useful!

Why don't I do an up tilt to Up-B and call it "AWESOME RISING"?

 

[Miller]

first off, naming an "approach" is lame in and of itself. I mean, it's character specific first off, not exactly an AMAZING approach (considering if the person is even slightly good they can kick the **** out of you for it), and seriously, you up tilt.

The fact it's even named is a problem, and the "grand viper" is a bad name. This isn't Guilty Gear, this is smash.

And if anybody wants to come back with "Well what about wavedashing?" I'd like to point out, I said 'Character Specific'. Wavedashing was possible with all characters, unlike this trash. It's not even useful!

Why don't I do an up tilt to Up-B and call it "AWESOME RISING"?

Awesome Rising, made me lol

 

[Fizz-sama]

Call it whatever you want. If you like it, fine. If you don't, pay it no mind. This thread shouldn't have even gotten' this "long."

 

[Irae]

Or we keep it named the "grand viper," and rename his down throw the "hillbilly nutcracker," his b move "hernia" and his b-air "ball kicking."(Even though it isn't a kick.)


Yeah, that sounds right.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

You people are seriously whining over a nickname to a move one guy gave an approach because he happened to think it looks like a move in Guilty Gear (which it does)?

*facepalm*

 

[Parthenon]

first off, naming an "approach" is lame in and of itself. I mean, it's character specific first off, not exactly an AMAZING approach (considering if the person is even slightly good they can kick the **** out of you for it), and seriously, you up tilt.

The fact it's even named is a problem, and the "grand viper" is a bad name. This isn't Guilty Gear, this is smash.

And if anybody wants to come back with "Well what about wavedashing?" I'd like to point out, I said 'Character Specific'. Wavedashing was possible with all characters, unlike this trash. It's not even useful!

Why don't I do an up tilt to Up-B and call it "AWESOME RISING"?

And then you remembered the Ken Combo and shut your face up mirite?

 

[Zareidriel]

And then you remembered the Ken Combo and shut your face up mirite?

Except that Ken didn't name the Ken Combo. He started using it, kicked ultra major *** with it, and people were like, "That guy is so epicly super amazing that he deserves a combo named after him!"

Ken didn't wake up one day and say, "I should make a combo and name it something."

Once any of us are near the level of Ken, we can talk about having honorary moves named by/after us. Right now, we all suck. =P

 

[Parthenon]

Except that Ken didn't name the Ken Combo. He started using it, kicked ultra major *** with it, and people were like, "That guy is so epicly super amazing that he deserves a combo named after him!"

Ken didn't wake up one day and say, "I should make a combo and name it something."

Once any of us are near the level of Ken, we can talk about having honorary moves named by/after us. Right now, we all suck. =P

Doesn't change the fact that there was a character-specific move that got named. Not to mention Elliot didn't name it the Grand Viper anyways. Someone else came up with that name after watching him use it, and he decided to post this information. Just because it happened offline doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[asam28]

Parthenon, that ladder in front of you leads to Metal Gear.......Parthenon? Parth? PAARRRTTHHH!!! (cool game over music) :D

also lol who gives a **** if people use silly phrases.

 

[Zareidriel]

Doesn't change the fact that he nor any of us here can fight Ken and even hope to win. Newb players don't get their own moves, regardless of the circumstances. Once he's won the MLG, I'm sure no one would object.

 

[ithrowthings]

I faced gvipr online. He lost twice to my sonic... He also killed himself several times and really wasn't that good.

 

[Parthenon]

Doesn't change the fact that he nor any of us here can fight Ken and even hope to win. Newb players don't get their own moves, regardless of the circumstances. Once he's won the MLG, I'm sure no one would object.

How well-known a player is has no bearing on how valid the techniques he uses are. You have some weird biased ideas that you refuse to let go of.

Hylian, a melee player, is somewhat famous for inventing and naming several techniques, despite the fact that he isn't as good as Ken, nor does he win at MLG.

I faced gvipr online. He lost twice to my sonic... He also killed himself several times and really wasn't that good.

He killed himself several times because we were ******* around. You can't honestly tell me you watched me and still thought I was trying in my matches. I taunted more times than I attacked, and I lost more stocks jumping off the edge and Cyphering off-stage than you guys took off of me. I'm almost insulted that you thought he suicided because of lack of skill.

 

[ithrowthings]

How well-known a player is has no bearing on how valid the techniques he uses are. You have some weird biased ideas that you refuse to let go of.

Hylian, a melee player, is somewhat famous for inventing and naming several techniques, despite the fact that he isn't as good as Ken, nor does he win at MLG.



He killed himself several times because we were ******* around. You can't honestly tell me you watched me and still thought I was trying in my matches. I taunted more times than I attacked, and I lost more stocks jumping off the edge and Cyphering off-stage than you guys took off of me. I'm almost insulted that you thought he suicided because of lack of skill.

First off, the match against Marth I lost and I'll admit that. But the Ike player was trying and struggling with every fiber of his being. If he wants a rematch, I'll gladly play him again. Second ly I've never heard of this Hylian of whom you speak. I may have heard of some of the moves he's "named" but I doubt it. Not to mention there's no combo named the "Hylian" Naming a move after yourself, pure balls my friend. pure balls.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

I faced gvipr online. He lost twice to my sonic... He also killed himself several times and really wasn't that good.

You DO know this is about the nickname of a combo/approach for Ike and not a Brawl player...right?

 

[Metroid_01]

First off, the match against Marth I lost and I'll admit that. But the Ike player was trying and struggling with every fiber of his being. If he wants a rematch, I'll gladly play him again. Second ly I've never heard of this Hylian of whom you speak. I may have heard of some of the moves he's "named" but I doubt it. Not to mention there's no combo named the "Hylian" Naming a move after yourself, pure balls my friend. pure balls.

He was a Samus player. A missile technique was named after him. Dont talk when you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[RoK the Reaper]

Well, I've had a moved named after me before, but because someone credible named the move; no one objected.

The move was called the "RagnaRoK (Back when I was known as RagnaRoK instead of RoK)". Which they yelled every time I performed Roy's Downsmash. Because I did the downsmash way more than an average Roy player Wobbles the Phoenix named it and used it in several places he played in friendlies when he used Roy. Also, it has been used by a few people and Sethlon even recognizes the term. So, You must be epic and recognized and the move named by a large group of people; or one person that kicks ***.

 

[Parthenon]

First off, the match against Marth I lost and I'll admit that. But the Ike player was trying and struggling with every fiber of his being. If he wants a rematch, I'll gladly play him again. Second ly I've never heard of this Hylian of whom you speak. I may have heard of some of the moves he's "named" but I doubt it. Not to mention there's no combo named the "Hylian" Naming a move after yourself, pure balls my friend. pure balls.

Elliot chose the GVIPR tag after he posted the guide, not before. He named his tag after the combo, not the other way around.

I don't even think Elliot played against you twice. He left after only a few matches because he had class. I went undefeated against you guys and I can attest to Elliot's skill with Ike, he regularly beats me. And you know he'll rematch you any time.

You were like a joke to us and you lord yourself over Elliot, who is possibly better than me. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Zareidriel]

There is a simple, logical theorem to explain.

First, we establish some facts.

I play Ike.

No one we know plays Snake. We didn't even know what Snake's moves are.

We beat Elliot, most of the time at least, who plays Ike.

We do not beat Snake.

Hence, it is only logical that we were able to defeat the more skilled player because we were familiar with the moves and strategies of that character. We lost to the less skilled player because his moves and strategies are completely alien to us; even if your strategies are very different from those of other Snakes, we were still unfamiliar with the basic moves. For example, we didn't know that Snake's upsmash, the mortar, came back down after it was shot upward.

In conclusion, things should be settled when we rematch. I don't want to make any claims, but my friend plays Snake as an alt, so I should hope to do better.

What flaws do you find in my argument? Please respond courteously, I don't want the Ike forums to gain a bad reputation. =P

Edit: For anyone interested, on the subject of custom moves, my friends have seen a few moves I've done and named them. A few examples of such amazing moves are the Grand Zareidriel, the Hillbilly Nutcracker, the Napalm Death, and the Triple Mega Ultra Zareidriel. They can be found in the No-Nonsense Ike Manual. 8D

 

[Fizz-sama]

I honestly think it has somewhat of a negative reputation already. :/

 

[Zareidriel]

It kinda does, ah well. XD

It's better than no reputation at all, like the Wario forum or something. xDD

 

[Parthenon]

There is a simple, logical theorem to explain.

First, we establish some facts.

I play Ike.

No one we know plays Snake. We didn't even know what Snake's moves are.

We beat Elliot, most of the time at least, who plays Ike.

We do not beat Snake.

Hence, it is only logical that we were able to defeat the more skilled player because we were familiar with the moves and strategies of that character. We lost to the less skilled player because his moves and strategies are completely alien to us; even if your strategies are very different from those of other Snakes, we were still unfamiliar with the basic moves. For example, we didn't know that Snake's upsmash, the mortar, came back down after it was shot upward.

In conclusion, things should be settled when we rematch. I don't want to make any claims, but my friend plays Snake as an alt, so I should hope to do better.

What flaws do you find in my argument? Please respond courteously, I don't want the Ike forums to gain a bad reputation. =P

I'm fine with you, ITT's post just bothered me.

None of us play Diddy or Sonic or ROB, but that did not stop us from playing well against them. I actually didn't even know that Diddy's side-B was a throw, or that ROB could angle his lasers, or that Sonic's up-B could hit people, until those matches. Being unfamiliar with the moveset does not excuse the entire match.

I find it hard to believe you didn't know Snake's upsmash came back down the 20th or 30th time I used it. The one KO I remember getting with it was against ROB and it was literally the very last match I played. You should know by then what his moves do.

Sure, there's something to be said for nobody knowing how Snake plays the first time I used him, but I used him exclusively for the entire day. The shock should've worn off after the first few matches.

Additionally, our Metaknight player went undefeated, and I know you aren't unfamiliar with him.

Just don't knock Elliot because he stepped out before everyone got used to the lag. I mean, when he uses side-B under Final D and suicides, it's pretty obvious he's not an idiot. He just didn't expect the lag to screw him over like that, and it was literally his first ever WiFi match.

 

[Zareidriel]

No one can get used to something the first time they learn it, it's human nature. Now that I go back and think about what happened, and studied Snake's moves myself, I am learned about them. But everyone falls into the same traps multiple times in one session of play; as an aspiring undergraduate neurologist, I can tell you that the brain will not recognize and learn things immediately, it is during long sessions of inactivity that those begin to sink in. Unless you are thinking about each move consciously; but doing that is impossible, when there are such a quantity of moves to learn and know what to do against, especially in a character like Snake's case, while simultaneously performing combat to your best ability.

And yes, actually, we were completely unfamiliar with Metaknight as well. My one friend only played him for the lulz, and only once; none of us play Metaknight. And it was our first Wifi match ever as well, none of us were used to it, but I adapted pretty quickly.

 

[blue_dragon]

I'm fine with you, ITT's post just bothered me.

None of us play Diddy or Sonic or ROB, but that did not stop us from playing well against them. I actually didn't even know that Diddy's side-B was a throw, or that ROB could angle his lasers, or that Sonic's up-B could hit people, until those matches. Being unfamiliar with the moveset does not excuse the entire match.

I find it hard to believe you didn't know Snake's upsmash came back down the 20th or 30th time I used it. The one KO I remember getting with it was against ROB and it was literally the very last match I played. You should know by then what his moves do.

Sure, there's something to be said for nobody knowing how Snake plays the first time I used him, but I used him exclusively for the entire day. The shock should've worn off after the first few matches.

Additionally, our Metaknight player went undefeated, and I know you aren't unfamiliar with him.

Just don't knock Elliot because he stepped out before everyone got used to the lag. I mean, when he uses side-B under Final D and suicides, it's pretty obvious he's not an idiot. He just didn't expect the lag to screw him over like that, and it was literally his first ever WiFi match.

On that subject, how much lag have you seen in brawl? And has it made a match unplayable.

 

[blue_dragon]

I'm fine with you, ITT's post just bothered me.

None of us play Diddy or Sonic or ROB, but that did not stop us from playing well against them. I actually didn't even know that Diddy's side-B was a throw, or that ROB could angle his lasers, or that Sonic's up-B could hit people, until those matches. Being unfamiliar with the moveset does not excuse the entire match.

I find it hard to believe you didn't know Snake's upsmash came back down the 20th or 30th time I used it. The one KO I remember getting with it was against ROB and it was literally the very last match I played. You should know by then what his moves do.

Sure, there's something to be said for nobody knowing how Snake plays the first time I used him, but I used him exclusively for the entire day. The shock should've worn off after the first few matches.

Additionally, our Metaknight player went undefeated, and I know you aren't unfamiliar with him.

Just don't knock Elliot because he stepped out before everyone got used to the lag. I mean, when he uses side-B under Final D and suicides, it's pretty obvious he's not an idiot. He just didn't expect the lag to screw him over like that, and it was literally his first ever WiFi match.

Sorry, server probs

 

[Parthenon]

On that subject, how much lag have you seen in brawl? And has is made a match unplayable.

Butt-tons. Actually more like half a second. It spikes at times, but I'd say the average for our match was half a second.

No one can get used to something the first time they learn it, it's human nature. Now that I go back and think about what happened, and studied Snake's moves myself, I am learned about them. But everyone falls into the same traps multiple times in one session of play; as an aspiring undergraduate neurologist, I can tell you that the brain will not recognize and learn things immediately, it is during long sessions of inactivity that those begin to sink in. Unless you are thinking about each move consciously; but doing that is impossible, when there are such a quantity of moves to learn and know what to do against, especially in a character like Snake's case, while simultaneously performing combat to your best ability.

And yes, actually, we were completely unfamiliar with Metaknight as well. My one friend only played him for the lulz, and only once; none of us play Metaknight. And it was our first Wifi match ever as well, none of us were used to it, but I adapted pretty quickly.

Again, you were as familiar with Metaknight as I was with Diddy/Sonic/ROB/DeDeDe/Donkey Kong. If your friend played Metaknight even once, that's more times than anyone over here played Diddy. We all have mains and those aren't any of them, but we still managed to take those characters on.

And if you can't figure out that a mortar comes back down after 20 or 30 fires, I don't know what to say. Your neuroscience argument holds water maybe overall kind of? But the mortar is pretty easy to figure out.

 

[Zareidriel]

Butt-tons. Actually more like half a second. It spikes at times, but I'd say the average for our match was half a second.

Again, you were as familiar with Metaknight as I was with Diddy/Sonic/ROB/DeDeDe/Donkey Kong. If your friend played Metaknight even once, that's more times than anyone over here played Diddy. We all have mains and those aren't any of them, but we still managed to take those characters on.

And if you can't figure out that a mortar comes back down after 20 or 30 fires, I don't know what to say. Your neuroscience argument holds water maybe overall kind of? But the mortar is pretty easy to figure out.

Again, I was just saying that you were incorrect when you said you knew we weren't unfamiliar with him. I'm not saying we're any less familiar with him than you are with us.

20 or 30 is a huge exaggeration. I doubt you used it that many times in 2 3-stock matches. Even if you did, remembering the mortar as well as the effects of his other 15+ moves while simultaneously fighting is the challenge here. You have to agree that neither Diddy, Sonic, Rob, nor Donkey Kong are nearly as tricky as Snake; keeping track of proximity mines, remote C4, the mortar, and the Nikita, sometimes all of those things simultaneously, is not an easy task. Especially the first time someone has EVER fought him.

 

[Metroid_01]

Come on. Ill give you the C4 and mines can be hard to catch on to until you learn to see them...but the Nikita? My friend started some trick where he dropped the nikita on your head in various situations, after he did it like twice, I figured it out and changed my patterns, and seriously...dont tell me you cant remember that the mortar comes back down.

Adjusting your patterns to combat your foe (and learning on the fly) is a tremendous part of being a skilled player, if you really want to john about not being able to remember a simple attack that goes up....and then comes back down, you should rethink your status as a competitive player.

Im seriously tired of hearing everybody make johns all day long. Play again and see what happens and dont whine about it. And put them online!

 

[Zareidriel]

I plan on it. I'm only saying this is an unfamiliar game full of unfamiliar characters right now. Everything will change in a couple months. No johns.

 

[ama(m/t)]

90% of snakes moves are generic physical attacks which have no special properties whatsoever
i can't agree that diddy or rob are less tricky than snake, especially regarding rob's hitboxes and autospacing, and diddy's side b which killed some scrubby jigglypuff at about 20% from an off-the side grab.
i know for a fact that parth spammed up smash nonstop every opportunity he got, 95% of which missed because he just spams it for no reason. either way, you would have gotten to see the missle a bunch of times
it's not even a free for all, and the stages aren't even that dynamic. keeping track of the mines is easy, and the mortar and nikita have extremely obvious animations during which snake is even immobile.

i mean, if you can't adapt to moves over the course of five hours of play, i guess we won't be seeing you in any tournaments ever, where you have to adapt to a player's style in the time it takes for a single set to play

 

[Parthenon]

Just because Snake's the one laying mines and C4 doesn't mean he's immune to them. Did you stop to consider the fact that every single match, I had to keep track of the mines and C4 too? The entire time I'm grabbing and dashing and rolling and FIGHTERING I'm keeping my eyes on the explosive charges, making sure I don't miss an opportunity. My attention is divided in 3 different directions when I play, and Snake requires a lot of multi-tasking since he has a buttload of different explosives he can dish out at once, all of which you have to keep track of so you know when you can put out another.

Those C4s don't blow themselves up, you know.

I LOVE TO SPAM MORTARS ITS TRUE

 

[Timat the Slayer]

Doesn't change the fact that there was a character-specific move that got named. Not to mention Elliot didn't name it the Grand Viper anyways. Someone else came up with that name after watching him use it, and he decided to post this information. Just because it happened offline doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'm sorry, did I say combo? No. I said Approach. The "ken combo" wasn't named by him, it was named after him, because first off, it was a combo that he could do without any problem, and it wasn't an APPROACH. Secondly, the "Grand Viper" is not even a COMBO. You hit with, count it, ONE, move. The up tilt. It shouldn't have a name, period.

I could give a flaming **** about some other names, but it's a horrible approach that should not stick. I say we just let the bloody thing die out.

 

[asam28]

LAWL. you guys are funny. the entire post has turned into a "who is more skilled" match, when in fact the game has been out for such a short time that everyone is pretty much unskilled. i mean you can't honestly boast one way or the other about skill when your playing friendly,lagging matches. you guys are just dumb ****s. also RoK the Reaper is a **** head. its true

No one can get used to something the first time they learn it, it's human nature. Now that I go back and think about what happened, and studied Snake's moves myself, I am learned about them. But everyone falls into the same traps multiple times in one session of play; as an aspiring undergraduate neurologist, I can tell you that the brain will not recognize and learn things immediately, it is during long sessions of inactivity that those begin to sink in. Unless you are thinking about each move consciously; but doing that is impossible, when there are such a quantity of moves to learn and know what to do against, especially in a character like Snake's case, while simultaneously performing combat to your best ability.

And yes, actually, we were completely unfamiliar with Metaknight as well. My one friend only played him for the lulz, and only once; none of us play Metaknight. And it was our first Wifi match ever as well, none of us were used to it, but I adapted pretty quickly.

sorry but this made me laugh SO hard. its so full of terrible logic. shall we analyze?

first off. LOL ASPIRING NEUROLOGIST JOHNS

more importantly: "noone can get used to something the first time they learn it" *later that post* " And it was our first Wifi match ever as well, none of us were used to it, but I adapted pretty quickly."

do you see the problem? "its impossible to adjust to something immediatly...unless youre me and my friends.....unless it metaknight or snake....yup....perfect logic"

finally. now im not saying that you didnt legitimately beat GVIPR, but I know him pretty well and he does mess aorund an awful lot so id say your chances of a real victory were about 50-50

 

[Mike Hawk]

horrible approach.

 

[JoJoRukus]

I'm surprised this thread has lasted as long as it did... It is a very silly thread. I'm gonna go play Guilty Gear until Brawl comes out and think about how much of a jerk Sol is for stealing Ike's Forward Special to Up Tilt combo... Oh wait...

Grand Viper! Grand Viper! Grand Viper! Super Bike!

 

[Zareidriel]

LAWL. you guys are funny. the entire post has turned into a "who is more skilled" match, when in fact the game has been out for such a short time that everyone is pretty much unskilled. i mean you can't honestly boast one way or the other about skill when your playing friendly,lagging matches. you guys are just dumb ****s. also RoK the Reaper is a **** head. its true

sorry but this made me laugh SO hard. its so full of terrible logic. shall we analyze?

first off. LOL ASPIRING NEUROLOGIST JOHNS

more importantly: "noone can get used to something the first time they learn it" *later that post* " And it was our first Wifi match ever as well, none of us were used to it, but I adapted pretty quickly."

do you see the problem? "its impossible to adjust to something immediatly...unless youre me and my friends.....unless it metaknight or snake....yup....perfect logic"

finally. now im not saying that you didnt legitimately beat GVIPR, but I know him pretty well and he does mess aorund an awful lot so id say your chances of a real victory were about 50-50

You're mixing apples and oranges here. Lag, a slight timing issue, can be adapted to fairly quickly since it's a constant. A large set of moves and their effects that each have completely different timing is a separate issue altogether.

It's like you're criticizing someone that says, "I can do math." in a paragraph, but later says, "I can't do 4th-dimensional higher calculus." While the statements seem to contradict each other, they're completely different. Most people can do general math, that doesn't mean most people can do high math.

Don't talk about things you have no idea about. I'm not making johns about my losses. =P