Grab with R or Z+A?

[kuenzel]

Which is better in your opinion? which do you use anyway? I use R, but my brother says its easier to Z+A so you can grab right out of a sheild. i argue that when hes shielding to grab, i can always grab him first. What do you think?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

You should both honestly learn to use either, freely.

They both have their uses-- R can be used in a dash-grab, such as with CF (a key asset to his move list, btw), and general grabbing, and shield-grabbing turns the tide easily.

Neither one is "better" than the other, you'll run into trouble if you don't use both.

 

[felix45]

what box of fox said. neither is better, they're both just good in different situations.

simple examples.

for R grab spammers like DK and CF need it for their dash grabs. its just faster.

for shield grab say someone does a dash attack. just wait for it to hit then grab.


both have their uses as shown in very simple examples above. just learn to use both.

 

[kuenzel]

in response to the Z+ A is good against dash attacks, does that mean dash attacks should just not be used because the are easy to see coming, then easily counterable because of the lag? Is there a way to go directly from a dash to a smash like in melee?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

There isn't, most dash-a attacks have enough non-cancelable lag that shield grabbing is an easy strategy.

Conclusion-- don't use dash attacks, unless you are SURE you will make contact.

 

[felix45]

what? you can grab someone if they dash attack your shield in melee as well. only way you cant is if the person doing the dash attack spaced it so they end up behind your shield. there is never enough time for them to do a smash attack afterwards unless you are just plain stupid or something. and even then if they openly smash your sheild after openly dash attacking it you can grab them after the smash attack...


also I'm not saying to not use dash attacks. go ahead and use them, I do. just dont openly dash attack into someones shield because you will get grabbed.

anyone who has played me has probably died from dash attacks too, they work great depending on your character as a way to edge gaurd. I've killed people by knocking them off at around 50% from pure dash attacks many times. its a good mind game too because I'm sure they get pissed that I keep doing something that takes almost no skill to kill them so easily.

edit: wait did you mean by "is there a way to go directly from a dash to a smash like in melee" as in just running across then smashing? well during a run you can upsmash at anytime and if you pivot you can do any smash as well if that is what you meant.

 

[kuenzel]

ya thats what i meant, cause in melee you can push down really fast then do any smash derectly from a dash. Nothing like that in smash 64?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Nope

Felix is right though, if the dash attacks work well, then don't hold back. I just said don't use them too much because my personal playstyle rarely ever uses dash attacks, b/c I fear shielding grabbing so much lol.

 

[kuenzel]

In my fighting style i use it quite a bit (cant resist w/ C. Falcon) but every time i do, before i even hit the person i regret it. maybe i should change my style.

 

[Thino]

you shouid. you would get shieldgrabbed.
from my little melee experience my dash attacks get shieldgrabbed as well , even with fox ('s usmash)

 

[PikashoX]

doesnt shield grab cut in half the damage done?

 

[Wenbobular]

Yes.
Yoshi has the most hilarious dash attack though I was playing Dre and doing Windmill of Fury, Yoshi style...winning too...

 

[kuenzel]

Windmill of fury? what is that, his ownage bicycle kick? or combo'd dash?
Sheild grab cuts the damage in half??? I never noticed! so then, unless your grabbing out of a block, you should always throw with R? or will it throw the person the same distance no matter how much damage it does?

 

[felix45]

they should go the same distance but I'm not 100% sure on it

 

[cmasterchoe]

Certain characters have longer lag time with their dash attacks, DK and luigi are probably the best examples (or worst depending on how you look at it). I say CF and Fox can probably get away with it, maybe mario too. Link's boomerang to dash attack is def a staple of his play.

As grabbing is concerned, one thing that is useful is that if you time it right, you can counter a smash attack. I've grabbed a smashing kirby, CF and fox countless times. You'll here the sound play through but the opponent just slides right into your grab, so if you shield grab its a convenient counter for smash attacks as well.

 

[Wenbobular]

No one here goes on the SSBM forums do they...Windmill of Fury is a broken Samus tactic.
Watch and be amazed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnT_eaOVNJ4
No one really gets away with dash attacking into a shield. Like...nobody. Unless you're facing a Samus, you can expect to get thrown.

 

[Thino]

i loved the "MINDGAMES !" part

 

[Asylum]

I use whichever I need to use at that given time to give me better results.

 

[RedYoshi92]

I use the R button for grabbing.

 

[nesshero]

it seems like Z+A grab does half damage, but only sometimes... could someone clear this up?

 

[_kSo_]

never tested, I'm sure it can easily be figured out. I'd do it now but im at work.

as far as never using dash+A. Nuh uh. DashA is actually a great edge guarding tactic. Similar to the nair, it has a "sex kick" property that has a hitbox that stays out for a longer period of time than a normal attack, giving you that many more chances to hit the opponent. For example, most people will grab the edge on their way back for invicibility, then jump off and do an aerial. This is because they predict you will edge guard with a minimal frame move such as a smash attack (because you are standing). Great mind game - just do dash A and when they try to release the edge, they will get hit by the attack. Don't do it too often, they will catch on and you will be severely punished

works great if you're fox

 

[moogle]

Yeah, dash attack is pretty much my favorite move with Fox.

 

[Wenbobular]

Dash attack is basically my favorite move with Yoshi.

 

[Fabrian]

yoshi's dash attack is actually a combo starter O.o if you know how to use it.

 

[Thino]

Dash attack is my favorite move with luigi

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I edgeguard with falcon's gun

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Yoshi's dashing A is so annoying. You can't shield grab it because it goes right past you, and it lags you enough so that you can't turn around fast enough and do anything other than smash, so you usually just have to jump up.

 

[Mike B.]

I use Z+A to grab from a shield and I use R to grab when I'm running at someone.