Grab release data

[Red Shirt KRT]

all of this was posted by Lavani

And since it was all done for mega man I thought this would be worth sharing.

So I think we should try and find some setups that work with this?

Ground release: 29f
Releasing animation: 29f (stationary ground release animation, essentially)
Air release: 39f

This means air releases give +10 frame advantage. Though there's a couple extra frames of leeway due to a lack of frame 1 aerial defensive options, the hypermajority of characters can't actually do anything in those frames. But for those that can (or in doubles setups), they also have to account for the fact that every character releases at a different trajectory, and is able to act at a different height. And most of the time grab release stuff is suboptimal and/or situational anyway, but hey, information is information.

Tests were done by being air released by Mega Man from the ledge of Mushroomy Kingdom Ω and jumping as soon as possible, then measuring the number of blocks from the ledge the character lands, using the nearest tip of their foot as the point of measurement. The stage is 20 blocks wide; a character with a ranking of 5 flies 1/4 the length of FD before being able to act.

Height also varies by character. There isn't a nice number to put to this, but they will be labeled with some approximations based on how high up they are able to act from:

Note that being released by a shorter or taller character than Mega Man can cause slight height variations. Landing from a grab release results in a hard landing, which can add or subtract overall lag depending on where in the animation the character lands. Mii sizes, Monado Arts, and presumably other movement-changing mechanics do not affect grab releases.

not included due to poverty.

Land
Greninja 4.33

Low
Charizard 4.0/4.5 (head/feet)
Sheik 4.33
Fox 4.33
Meta Knight 4.33 (note: arcs VERY high)
Mega Man 4.5
Zero Suit Samus 4.9
Captain Falcon 5.0

High
Donkey Kong 3.33/4.0 (face/hand)
Ness 3.66
Mewtwo 3.8
R.O.B. 3.9
Ganondorf 4.0
Bowser Jr. 4.0
Mii Brawler 4.0
Kirby 4.1
Pac-Man 4.2
Game & Watch 4.33
Mario 4.33
Duck Hunt 4.33
Bowser 4.33
Wario 4.4
Dr. Mario 4.5
Ike 4.5
Dedede 4.5
Little Mac 4.6
Falco 4.66
Peach 4.7
Shulk 4.7
Villager 4.7
(Dark) Pit 4.7
Palutena 4.9
Luigi 4.9
Samus 5.0
Toon Link 5.0
Diddy Kong 5.0
Link 5.0
Wii Fit Trainer 5.0
Lucario 5.0
Pikachu 5.1
Robin 5.2
Marth/Lucina 5.3
Zelda 5.3
Yoshi 5.5

Very High
Jigglypuff 2.33
Olimar 4.33
Sonic 4.5
Mii Gunner 4.6
Rosalina 4.8
Mii Swordfighter 5.33

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I'm wondering what the land means for greninja? Will this leave time for us to hit him with an upper? I won't be able to test anything out for a few days.

Also it looks like jiggs dk and ness fall close to us so that might be something to look at?

 

[Lavani]

Well now I have to keep an eye on this thread!

I should probably note that there wasn't any real significance in using Mega Man for my tests beyond liking his hold animation. I doubt Mega Man has anything significant (if anything at all) guaranteed off a grab release, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

tbh I think if Mega Man has anything at all here you'd be looking at air releasing Pac-Man into usmash with your back to a hydrant, unless there's some Crash Bomber/Leaf Shield gimmicks that wouldn't work with throws for whatever reason.

I'm wondering what the land means for greninja? Will this leave time for us to hit him with an upper? I won't be able to test anything out for a few days.

Greninja has a couple extra frames of lag because he lands, it's nothing huge.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Never been able to get anything really useful out of grab release, but we'll see if this helps with anything.

 

[Rush 2112]

I don't quite understand this. Could you explain some things for people who might not know the difference between ground release and air release. And what exactly is the frame count? How long it takes for them to touch the ground? How long until I can act? How long until they can act?

 

[ENKER]

Agreed. The terms "air release" and "ground release" are new to me. Researching now.

Edit: Here we go!
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Grab_release

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

That is a great read thanks for the link ENKER

So only air releases will be worth looking into it appears.

Haven't ever really grab released someone I'd like to lab this a little bit.

 

[Lavani]

I don't quite understand this. Could you explain some things for people who might not know the difference between ground release and air release. And what exactly is the frame count? How long it takes for them to touch the ground? How long until I can act? How long until they can act?

Ground release is where the character slides across the ground. It's identical in length to your own animation releasing them, so both characters can act at the same time.

Air release sends the character in an arc through the air. This gives you 10 frames of advantage as it's a longer animation for them, but considering the distance they fly it's still really hard if not impossible for most characters to follow up on.

Greninja lands on the last frame of his air release on flat ground, and suffers 4 frames of hard landing lag (39-42f) because of it.

The rest of your questions are answered in the post the OP quoted, but one other thing of relevance: ground vs air release is determined by a character's height when you grab them off the ground. If you grab them from the air and their feet don't touch the ground, it forces an air release. If your opponent mashes up or jump to escape, it forces an air release. If they escape while you're pummeling, it forces a ground release.

 

[Megamang]

Meh, i'd say you're almost always better off going for the throw for the percentage. Due to our slow but strong pummel, people will get grab released, so its nice to know your options! We don't have a fast jab so we probably aren't going to win a jab war, but if their jab isn't ranged enough pellets might win... but again, its a low reward situation. I'd probably buffer a shield in hopes to powershield them if they have a frame 1-3 jab, then grab them again. The second grab can be demoralizing and can condition less shielding, which is nice for megaman.

Notable exceptions might be Bayonetta, due to her lackluster CQC. She will probably also shield for the same reason we do, or maybe pull out a d-tilt (fastest CQC that hits us, safe on shield, leads to good strings) or pull out a Witch Twist for high damage confirms and its quick (frame 4) startup. Here a SH Uair might be a really nice punish on the Witch Twist, or a really quick RAR bair.

Another nice character to grab release is Cloud if you get a grab to hold him off the ledge. If it does the release and he doesn't have a jump, im pretty sure he straight up dies. You can powershield his Climhazzard and grab him, if he spaces it poorly. This isn't that rare, since a pellet hit at the ledge can make him panic, and dropping all the way to climhazzard after a pellet hit actually isn't totally safe either. Megaman has some great stuff at the ledge vs cloud, explore your options.


While we are on the topic, Yoshi's will often grab release- jab you. Be ready for that . I think a shield comes up in time and they rely on the mixup factor, but if you are being pummeled you probably want to rotate the stick (so you don't buffer something with buttons) and then buffer shield as soon as you realize you are about to get out. The timing on getting out is hard to explain, but you should get a feel for it from practicing mashing a little. You will be totally surprised how well you can escape grabs, and how few people mash properly. Check out Beefy Smash Doods for best mashing techniques!

 

[Unclesatan]

All I can think of guaranteed wise is sticking crashbomb and getting an air release into cb into the normal cb followups. Still interesting to know, thank you for this info

 

[p1ay6ack]

i know these are pseudo follow ups on air/ground release but im curious whats more effective to go for? for air release, what moves work better in this situation?for ground release, what moves work better here?