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grab, pummel percents

username12345678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
156
hi guys. im sorry if this is a stupid question or its in the wrong place but i was wondering. for a character like say sheik. what is the percentage for pummeling? like you can do X amount of pummels directly after a grab at X percent (without the person mashing out of the grab) before you can throw them? im wondering because i have a friend coming over tomorrow to smash and my doc and sheik rely heavily on grabs. any input would be greatly appreciated :)





P.S if anyone dosent know but has a hunch where i could find this info that'd be awesome too!
 

Aceplayer

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 24, 2009
Messages
478
Location
Michigan
I've found that you can for sure get a 100% pummel per about 50%. If they aren't that good at mashing I'd say every 30-35% = 1 is a good choice.
 

Hazygoose

Smash Lord
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Nov 5, 2005
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straight outta Locash
i think that would be a really subjective "fact" since every input aids in helping someone get out of a grab. i'm not sure if there is a cap on those inputs, if there were i would assume it would be 14/sec or something (luigi's tornado cap IIRC) but even if so, i've never seen a translatable list of how much time each input saves you from being released from a grab. it's most likely not linear either, since not mashing out at all takes sooooo long for the grab release. if someone ever tested this i would be super duper impressed, but within the context of conventional competitive play, i think ace's rule of thumb is probably pretty good. if they aren't trying to mash out at first you get a free jab, and one jab for each 50% sounds accurate if the person is mashing for their life.
 

username12345678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
156
thanks alot guys. ill try a pummel every 30% because he usually dosent try to mash out of a grab


*unless im using IC's and try my pitiful wobbling*


thanks again!
 

Kason Birdman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
2,240
Location
519, Ontario
Remember that the longer you pummel them though, the longer they get to think about what throw you will do and how they will DI it and be able to DI it a lot better.
Sometimes it's just better to get the throw off and catch them offguard with bad DI
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
after 15 or so you can get 1, after 50ish you can do 2, after 100ish you can do 3, it's easier to fit in an extra pummel at higher percents if you don't hear them spamming to get out of it. It's also nice to sometimes not pummel your max amount and throw them while they are spamming, in hopes of flubbing their DI.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,534
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The back country, GA
Not that I've ever really tried to do this, but I always cannot help but hear my opponents controller. If they aren't trying to break out, I pummel them until they do, then throw lol. Most of the time I only sneak 1 or 2 in extra and then throw though.

Level 9 cpu's can give you a decent idea of how many pummels you can get in, they break out of the grab almost as quickly as the fastest humans.
 

CableCho57

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
1,656
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Goleta/Santa Barbara, CA
Remember that the longer you pummel them though, the longer they get to think about what throw you will do and how they will DI it and be able to DI it a lot better.
Sometimes it's just better to get the throw off and catch them offguard with bad DI
Yeah I actually prefer to just throw too because I don't think the extra percentage is worth the fact they might di out of a possible combo. Particularly foxs upthrow on fast fallers or maybe falcons dthrow on floaties
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
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Feb 27, 2008
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I pummel unless the extra percentage points will cause a combo to be escapable.
and of course if they can get out.

pummel takes 26 frames, stuns them for 3 frames.

Mew2King said:
"t" = time(in frames) stuck in a grab, "b" = amount of times victim presses buttons to escape quicker, and "d" = damage of victim.

t = 1.6d + 76 - 6b

At 0%, without any usage of the analog stick or any buttons, it takes exactly 76 frames (1.26666...) to escape a grab. On average, every damage more an opponent receives, the time they're stuck in a grab is increased by 1.6 frames. Since the game doesn't have fractions of a frame, it goes like this for every 5% an opponent receieves(and then the process/pattern continues). +2 frames, +2 frames, +1 frame, + 2 frames, + 1 frame. That's how it works. I also found that every flash when Mew2 grabs you occurs exactly 24 frames apart (and the 1st one starts on the 3rd frame of the grab), which is the exact same speed as Falco's laser when it's shot on the ground rapidly (except for the 1st shot, which starts on frame 23). Also, here is a general list of what affects escaping a grab by how much.

-----Press A, B, L, R, X, Y, or Z - 6 frames is reduced from the time you'd be held in a grab.

-----Press The Analog stick in 1 of the 4 cardinal directions(angles don't count) - 6 frames is reduced from the time you're held in a grab (24 frames is reduced after 1 complete rotation of the analog stick, so 2 and 1/2 rotations reduces the time by 1 second).

---------------0% - 76 (1.2666 sec)

---------------50% - 156 (2.6 sec)

---------------100% - 236 (3.9333 sec)

---------------150% - 316 (5.2666 sec)

---------------200% - 396 (6.6 sec)

---------------250% - 476 (7.9333 sec)

---------------300% - 556 (9.2666 sec)

---------------350% - 636 (10.6 sec)

---------------400% - 716 (11.9333 sec)

---------------999% - 1674 (27.9 sec)

---adds 1 second every 37.5% (without trying to escape it)

---doubles original time stuck in move (76 frames) at 47.5% (without trying to escape it)

---from 0% to 999%, there's approximately a 22.026316 times increase in the amount of times longer Disable lasts (without trying to escape it)
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
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I thought pummels did 4 frames of stun or 6 if you have a shook or ice climber pummel then it's 6. also some pummels take longer.

fastest pummel with most stun in the game comes out on frame 3 is pikachu/pichu and it's disjointed. I know I can wobble with 2 just 2 pichu's doing thier pummels http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwtB2fWHaoU

also you can tell how close they are to breaking out by pummeling them everything it vibres less and it nearly doesn't right before they escape.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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He didn't know you could wobble from 0% to death 2 people at a time with 2 pichus I want to see that happen in a real teams match I think that would nearly beat the wombo combo if I saw 2 pichu wobbling like that in teams.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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it depends on who're playing as pikachu /pichu could pummel you like 3 times in that time and as mario yeah that's about righti'd say pummel speed + 10%=time per a pummel and that would be pretty safe if you throw right after.

Grab Escape Speed Formula (and the factors that affect it)

The formula for escaping a grab (NOT special grabs, like Bowser's Koopa Klaw) is the following. The variables are, as you probably know, "t" = time(in frames) stuck in a grab, "b" = amount of times victim presses buttons to escape quicker, and "d" = damage of victim.

Most Grabs - Starting Time - 7 frames (0.11666 sec)
Most Grabs - Total Time - 30 frames (0.5 sec)
Most Dash Grabs - Starting Time - 11 frames (0.18333 sec)
Most Dash Grabs - Total Time - 40 frames (0.666 sec)

The formula is...

t = 1.6d + 76 - 6b

At 0%, without any usage of the analog stick or any buttons, it takes exactly 76 frames (1.26666...) to escape a grab. On average, every damage more an opponent receives, the time they're stuck in a grab is increased by 1.6 frames. Since the game doesn't have fractions of a frame, it goes like this for every 5% an opponent receieves(and then the process/pattern continues). +2 frames, +2 frames, +1 frame, + 2 frames, + 1 frame. That's how it works. I also found that every flash when Mew2 grabs you occurs exactly 24 frames apart (and the 1st one starts on the 3rd frame of the grab), which is the exact same speed as Falco's laser when it's shot on the ground rapidly (except for the 1st shot, which starts on frame 23). Also, here is a general list of what affects escaping a grab by how much.

-----Press A, B, L, R, X, Y, or Z - 6 frames is reduced from the time you'd be held in a grab.

-----Press The Analog stick in 1 of the 4 cardinal directions(angles don't count) - 6 frames is reduced from the time you're held in a grab (24 frames is reduced after 1 complete rotation of the analog stick, so 2 and 1/2 rotations reduces the time by 1 second).

The characters that shock you when they're holding you(except Ice Climbers with both of them) with they're grab+A move, which include(in no specific order)...

1) Mewtwo
2) Pichu
3) Pikachu
4) Zelda
5) Ice Climbers(with both of them, by pressing A really really fast)

...stun a grabbed foe for for 5 frames, and every single other character in the game stuns a foe for only 3 frames. Yes, you can actually increase the time a character is held by pressing A to attack them in a grab. The total time for ever A attack (in a grab) is EXACTLY 26 frames, so that means that you'll be able to shock a foe with Mew2, Pika/Pichu, Zelda and the 2 Ice Climbers about 1 more time in 12 or 13 times than you'd be able to do with another character, which gives those 5 characters an very very very slight advantage over other characters when you hold and attack them.

Here's a little list on the amount of frames a character is held in a grab at each damage percentage(counting by 5's)

---------------0% - 76 (1.2666 sec)

---------------50% - 156 (2.6 sec)

---------------100% - 236 (3.9333 sec)

---------------150% - 316 (5.2666 sec)

---------------200% - 396 (6.6 sec)

---------------250% - 476 (7.9333 sec)

---------------300% - 556 (9.2666 sec)

---------------350% - 636 (10.6 sec)

---------------400% - 716 (11.9333 sec)

---------------999% - 1674 (27.9 sec)

---adds 1 second every 37.5% (without trying to escape it)

---doubles original time stuck in move (76 frames) at 47.5% (without trying to escape it)

---from 0% to 999%, there's approximately a 22.026316 times increase in the amount of times longer Disable lasts (without trying to escape it)

Grab + Attack Starting Speed/pummel

-

-

3 frames - Pichu / Pikachu

-

5 frames - Captain Falcon / Falco / Fox / Ganondorf

-

7 frames - Marth / Roy / Zelda

-

-

10 frames - Bowser / DK / Kirby / Link / Samus / Sheik / Yoshi / Young Link

11 frames - Jigglypuff

12 frames - Mewtwo

13 frames - Ice Climbers(1) / Mr. Game & Watch

14 frames - Peach

-

16 frames - Ness

17 frames - Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
 

Kason Birdman

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
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Location
519, Ontario
He didn't know you could wobble from 0% to death 2 people at a time with 2 pichus I want to see that happen in a real teams match I think that would nearly beat the wombo combo if I saw 2 pichu wobbling like that in teams.
Yeah I remember watching your video of that.

Totally never going to happen in a teams match. Ever.
lol.
 
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