Grab-game Viability

[Fortress]

I thought that this would be a nice topic to talk about, and something that could help pepper some more grabs into our games. Just a nice healthy discussion about Link's grab game.

So, of course, we know Link's grab: long-range, at the price of being slow. Not his best out-of-shield option, but it's of course still there, and is extremely valuable when dealing with up-close shield pressure. It doubles as a recovery, a niche aerial attack, and even a means to manipulate bombs and other projectiles.

One thing that I thought we could discuss here are applications for each of Link's throws. Of course, D-throw and U-throw have always been popular options with easy follow-ups, but it'd be nice to touch on all aspects of Link's grab game.

UP-THROW: In my opinion, this is one of Link's more explored grab options. It kills on Final Destination at roughly %160, and has plenty of follow ups. At lower percentages, up-tilts are good options for keeping an opponent in the air, and positioning them onto a platform. If platforms aren't available, a bair is always viable in that it can allow you to continue comboing. At higher percents, you can U-throw into a U-air at around 70% to KO most cast members on the upper platform of Battlefield. A niche use, perhaps, but the application is there; U-throw into U-Air as a finisher. Of course, at lower percents, U-airs can be busted out easier to rack up heavy damage relatively quickly.

If all else fails, there's always the "get the **** away from me" option in Link's grounded up-special. You can't go wrong there.

FORWARD-THROW: One of the neatest things, to me, about Link's forward throw is that there are plenty of potential follow-ups available to Link depending on opponent's position and damage afterward. It's possible, with a poor reaction from your opponent, to follow forward throw with another grab up to about 40%. Now, at 40%, it's not going to be very reliable or consistent, but up until that point, Link can forward throw, start a dash, and immediately bust out a jump-cancelled grab to tug an opponent back in at the very limits of his grab range. Of course, it's not a powerful option, but I'm sure that Link pseudo-chaingrabing (har) is at the very least intimidating.

Another option available to Link is the DACUS. With a long slide, powerful u-smash, and good reach, Link can follow through with forwards with a DACUS until about 70% on most of the cast. He has plenty of followups from there, but that alone is a damage-dealing tool that can bring some unexpected lighting-fast speed to Link's game.

At very low percents, D-Tilt is an option against opponents who miss techs, make poor DI decisions, or are just slower than you on the punch. You can lift opponents back into the air, and chase with f-airs, 'rangs, or a n-air with good reliability. The F-tilt is a little less reliable in that opponents will usually be too far away, but right around 0%, Link can whap an opponent with an f-tilt. Probably not his most potent follow-up, as most opponents will be well out of reach most of the time, and that f-tilt itself at low percents probably won't sweep somebody off of their feet, leaving Link vulnerable in endlag.

BACK-THROW: I feel as if this is Link's most undervalued throw of all. I don't really hear talk about it, or see it too much in matches, but there are applications for it out there. B-throw against a wall is always a viable option, which can lead to all sorts of magical followups, namely u-tilt, but I honestly can't find B-throw's role in my Link game.

DOWN-THROW: The most viable option, in terms of how much I see it used and how much you can just do out of it. The down-throw can be called the backbone of Link's grab game. The throw doesn't send opponents very far above you until higher percents, meaning that up-special follow-ups are an incredible finishing option for Link. B-airs chain nicely out of it, as well as U-airs. D-airs and F-airs are options depending on your opponents reaction, and you can even throw a 'rang to keep an opponent in the air for your approach.

Anyway, that's my sort of opinionated take on Link's grab game and how to apply it. Does anybody do anything else out of Link's grabs? Is his pivot grab an option to be taken advantage of? What say all of you?

 

[Girth94]

I can usually manage a second grab off of an up-throw at low percents if there's a jab in between. But, usually, I let my impatience get the best of me and abuse the up-smash or up-b. I've actually never explored scoring KOs with it.

I can't even remember the last time I used f-throw or b-throw. I'll have to try the DACUS follow up out of the f-throw soon.

D-throw is fantastic. It's just the best option in 99% of the situations Link players find themselves in. U-tilt abuse at lower percents or against players with inexplicably poor DI, up-b, jab to re-grab at lower percents, and the d-air and f-air finishers make it Link's go-to throw in virtually every MU.

God, I love d-throw.

 

[Fortress]

Yeah, D-Throw was what I found myself using all of the time, and then I started to see options in F-Throw, and more options than I used to be aware of out of U-Throw. I've managed to snag a second grab off of an F-throw, but it's tricky, and can usually be DI'd away from (I think). Plus, it has to be a low percent deal. One of my favorite U-throw follow-ups is a simple Nair.

 

[Jolteon]

You can use bthrow vs space animals near the edge, sets them up for a gimp.

 

[Fortress]

That makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember b-throw being a more powerful option in Smash64 than in later titles. I don't know why, but I remember that for some reason.

 

[Rarik]

I'm pretty sure throws in general were rather powerful in Smash64. Although it's been like a year since I played 64, so don't quote me on that.

 

[Fortress]

No, I believe you, I remember throws being stronger in damage dealt back then, and Link's B-throw having more knockback than his F-throw, along with damage. Or something. That was like, the peak of my tech skill when I was ten.

 

[Jolteon]

Rarik is correct, that applies to 64 throws in general.

 

[l3thargy]

yeah in smash 64 link's back throw kills at a roughly 130-200% (obviously depending on where you are on the stage/what stage it is) or so I do believe, I could be wrong though. kind of wish this was implemented into project m just so back throw would be a more viable move then it is currently.

 

[Sarix]

Back throw currently is a gimp set up on fast fallers so it's useful when edgeguarding. I don't know if the PMBR plans to expand upon this.

 

[l3thargy]

^^^ yeah I know, I just think it would be funny to just be all "get the heck off mah stage" and booting the person off, kind of like how I feel when I use donkey kong's back throw to kill off someones stock lol

 

[Fortress]

Or Ganondorf's jab.

 

[BigHairyFart]

I'm pretty sure throws in general were rather powerful in Smash64. Although it's been like a year since I played 64, so don't quote me on that.

I do what I want.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I still stick to just u-throw and d-throw for Link, outside of using the other 2 throws near an edge to get them off, I heard there were supposed to be more uses for f-throw and b-throw now but I've yet to find any

 

[Fortress]

B-throw into a wall and into your u-tilt string is always nifty.

 

[Sarix]

I use F-throw to DACUS/Dash Attack fairly often now. Though I've been trying to refrain from grabbing and relying on Link's throw game too much since muscle memory has taken over in Out of Shield situations at times.

 

[Fortress]

See? Isn't it great?

 

[Sarix]

I find B-throw has a similar use since it also sends them a shorter distance away last time a I checked so I can Dash Attack.

 

[Fortress]

So, I was playing around with Marth the other day, did a cool thing, and it worked with Link. Don't know if you know about this, I figure it's basic stuff, BUT, try this:

Dash in one direction, spin the control stick in a quarter-circle the opposite direction (such that you angle it down and then to the right), and bust out an f-tilt. You just stop in your tracks and do the attack, no sliding or anything. It's fun. You can even mix in u-smashes if you get the stick all the way up if you're inclined to do so.

 

[Lethalx]

I still stick to just u-throw and d-throw for Link, outside of using the other 2 throws near an edge to get them off, I heard there were supposed to be more uses for f-throw and b-throw now but I've yet to find any

Yea same here, i prefer those throws over any of his other grabs. Dgrab is great for tech chasing at low% and upgrab is good for Seeing where there going and you can regrab if you know where there going. Fthrow/bthrow... Meh

 

[Fortress]

I'm telling you guys, DACUS out of F-throw is a totally viable option. A sick killer, and it's kind of intimidating to have Link pretty much warp right to you at lightning speed for a kill. I'm sure B-throw has applications at the ledge, but, I hardly use it myself.

The times that I catch myself using b-throw are against walls. Carry somebody one direction with a combo, grab, throw them back into a wall behind you, and take them to u-tilt city, where Link is mayor and they're nothing but a humble peon.

 

[Lethalx]

I'm telling you guys, DACUS out of F-throw is a totally viable option. A sick killer, and it's kind of intimidating to have Link pretty much warp right to you at lightning speed for a kill. I'm sure B-throw has applications at the ledge, but, I hardly use it myself.

The times that I catch myself using b-throw are against walls. Carry somebody one direction with a combo, grab, throw them back into a wall behind you, and take them to u-tilt city, where Link is mayor and they're nothing but a humble peon.

At what % exactly does f-throw> dacus works at

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

At what % exactly does f-throw> dacus works at

If you're opponent DI's away, I'm pretty sure it won't work at all

 

[Lethalx]

If you're opponent DI's away, I'm pretty sure it won't work at all

I thought that was too good to be true. It works on lvl 9 cpu im guessing.


the only use i see the f-throw/b-throw is those moves puts your opponent on a platform other than that nothing. (and of course if your trying to gimp them you b-throw near the edge vice versa)

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I thought that was too good to be true. It works on lvl 9 cpu im guessing.


the only use i see the f-throw/b-throw is those moves puts your opponent on a platform other than that nothing. (and of course if your trying to gimp them you b-throw near the edge vice versa)

Pretty much, I don't have a problem with it really, it's just when we're told those moves were changed in order to give uses for them so we don't just rely on just Dthrow and Uthrow, and then it turns out there still aren't any, I'm just disappointed

 

[Fortress]

I think that F-throw has applications that are dependent on your opponent's reaction.

If they DI up, SHFFL a u-air in there for some damage (or a kill at high percents; F-throw doesn't really send opponents that far) if they land on a platform
if they try and DI down towards the ground, get out a SHFFL'd n-air, or even the d-air
if they DI away, you can always throw the boomerang to get them back into some hangtime, or f-air them if they're close enough

I don't know, those are always my go-to's for f-throw outside of DACUS at lower percents; because, who's going to DI away from an f-throw/DACUS at thirty percent? F-throw has some neat setups if you get the opponent on a platform with it, you can really force your opponent to make a tech choice to avoid your follow-ups that can only set you up for some more zoning when they stand back up. More than helping to actually deal damage and aid in attacking, I feel like f-throw helps Link help the opponent in setting themselves up for a mistake.