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I think we can safely expect a lot of Ness's strongest matchups translate to Lucas pretty well: (Mewtwo, Samus, Palutena, Ganondorf, Dedede, Robin, Marth/Lucina, Falco, etc)
I wouldn't say we go even with Mario and Rosa.
We lose to Rosalina in all stages of the game and mario can destroy our recoveries with cape.
Um how does Rosa win on all stages? I dont see it. I never been down b gimped by Rosa once I took Lucas seriously.
We thought MK won the Fox matchup in theory for the same reasons as you outlined, but it turns out it's probably even or possibly slightly in Fox's favour. He is super fast and his rushdown style in the hands of a good player is difficult to deal with for most characters, even ones with decent walling capabilities like Lucas. Also, his recovery may seem very exploitable in theory it's not so easy in practice. Given that Lucas has a worse disadvantage state than MK, I would predict it to be in Fox's favour at least slightly.
Fox is one of the few characters that can actually punish PK fire, even when properly spaced.
How do we not lose to Sonic?
I don't know whether we lose the match-up or not, but SH nair gets him out of his spin dashes and his fairly light weight means he dies to down throw up air at fairly early percentages (good luck getting the grab, though). PK Fire doesn't really work for stage control here because he can always just jump over it or go right under it, then punish your cooldown. Zair is better than PK Fire for zoning in this match-up because it's got significantly less start-up and cooldown and allows you to stay mobile, not to mention the follow-ups available if you hit up-close.
If you alternately wavebounce the PK fire it'll stop Sonic abit, although not enough to punish.
Just wanna add my two cents here. First, Sonic is the same weight as Mario, so he's a mid weight. Not really "fairly light". The thing that makes the MU so hard is that Lucas can't catch Sonic. Much of Lucas's kit will only work if the Sonic approaches, which is something a good one will rarely do unless they are getting a punish. Shield cancelling side b is also amazing for baiting things out of Lucas. SH Nair can break side b, yes, but if he cancels side b (or just keeps holding it) and baits out a nair, then he is fast enough to punish the end lag despite it being relatively low. It also sucks for Lucas that Sonic is arguably the hardest character in the game to grab, and Lucas thrives immensely off of grabs. Off stage, tether trump is pretty much your only hope of getting a gimp. Sonic's recovery has a good portion of invincibility on it, so he can snap to the ledge while already invincible, thus preventing edge guarding via attacks.
Eh I do fine vs Sonic as Lucas. You don't have to approach either.
Personally I would say that Diddy is Lucas's worst match-up. He's the only one that can easily and consistantly punish our PK-fire zoning and his f-air can beat all our aerials.
Yes, I'm not an idiot.
and . Mostly because characters like and have such huge frames you can take advantage off, and considering the latter's poor recovery and the former not having any safe landing options when launched in the air, both are a field day for Lucas.How do DK and King Dedede not get destroyed by Lucas? DK doesn't have any tools to handle Lucas's zoning, at all, and his recovery is extremely easy to exploit. Dedede is only really a problem when you're above him because of how long his up air is active and because he can cover your landing with a well-placed gordo. Outside of that, PK Fire beats out gordos because a high bounce won't reach you, and a low bounce makes them very easy to hit with PK Fire. His huge hurtbox makes him combo food (his heavy weight makes him especially susceptible to down throw back air meteor at the ledge), and his only really good kill option is landing an up air, or down smash trap at the ledge (which isn't hard to avoid if you just wait it out by hanging out in tether). Really the only two moves you have to repect in the Dedede match-up are f-tilt and fair off-stage.Lucas safely destroys all heavies except
I dunno, I feel like full hop dair does a good job of keeping Falcon in check when he goes for grounded approaches. Once he starts going into the air you can go in with nair under him. I don't think it's that bad a match-up, but I don't have to put up with Fatality in my region (Vegas). Our best Falcon player moved out, too.
I may show a little bias as Fatality is in my region. He bodied my Lucas so hard while I go generally even with Ness until bad things happen.
Yeah, Ness's do-it-all nair and up air seem like they'd come in handy in the match-up. Also his grab isn't **** and he's got that back throw that Falcon has to respect. The problem with Lucas is that he has a hard time getting out of Falcon's pressure because his aerials aren't long disjointed hitboxes the way Ness's are (namely nair and fair). Falcon doesn't exactly have to worry about attacking Lucas's shield, either, because of his slow grab. The best Lucas can do OoS against Falcon is nair, which can catch Falcon even if he spot dodges or rolls. In terms of zoning, zair is infinitely more useful in this match-up up than PK Fire due to its quick (relatively speaking) start-up and minimal landing lag.
PK fire is also good for forcing approaches out of him if used wisely. We can take advantage of his poor range by pivot grabbing and spacing aerials when he tries to approach with his own. I do still think the MU might be slightly in Mario's favor, but potentially even.
I have always found that all heavies are combo food for
. The large hotboxes and slow movement speed allow for good opportunities to zone, and start combos with nair!'s kill power should be respected by all characters.
One must be very careful with this, though. Sonic has countless ways to fake you out with Spin Dash to bait you into using that laggy grab. Only useful for reads unless you have very quick reaction time.
You can also grab sonic out of his spin dash when he approaches.
You bring up a very good point! Grabbing a
out of spin dash is something that should be used as more of a mix up because it is very punishable. I typically do not us it until kill throw %.
Can confirm, I played an extremely good Sonic and I got bodied as Lucas. Because of his slow ground and aerial speed as well as his sub-par frame data, Lucas gets completely annihilated by Sonic.
In my opinion, characters that I find Lucas to have an easier time (from experience) are Bowser Junior, Dr. Mario, King Dedede, Luigi, Ness, PAC-MAN, Palutena, R.O.B., Toon Link, Zelda, Bowser and Ganondorf.
