Good approaches and ways to get off the ledge?

[FE_Hector]

Hm, you might get away with it, but if you watch players like Wizzrobe or S2J, they typically can bair to cover one option and then JC grab to cover rolls and tech rolls. I'm assuming ledge roll is no different.

Hmm, that's a good point. Well then if your options are being covered, that may bring us back to aerial (I'm fond of fair) onto the stage

 

[MarthZ]

you could perfect wave land which gives you more distance than just wave land ledge roll after a hax dash and approaching marth's main approach is probably a run cancel d tilt which has a lot of range but make sure to wave dash after the attack ends because if you don't you're stuck with 39 frames of ending lag the dash attack is dangerous but if you are against some one with a poor shield abuse it cause then you can combo with up airs after it

 

[FE_Hector]

you could perfect wave land which gives you more distance than just wave land ledge roll after a hax dash and approaching marth's main approach is probably a run cancel d tilt which has a lot of range but make sure to wave dash after the attack ends because if you don't you're stuck with 39 frames of ending lag the dash attack is dangerous but if you are against some one with a poor shield abuse it cause then you can combo with up airs after it

Even if you get a perfect waveland, does the invincibility period last long enough that you could actually avoid the bair? Those things are nasty and I'd prefer not to enter a high risk situation like that with minimal reward except slightly advantageous positioning and a possible return to neutral. Those bairs can be brutal...

 

[ChivalRuse]

According to Kadano's thread, you are invincible for 4 frames after ledgedash IF you do a perfect waveland from the edge. Thus you could do a perfect ledgedash to roll. But the execution necessary for that is sky-high, so it's not reasonable to attempt. You could go for ledgedash to shield though.

 

[FE_Hector]

According to Kadano's thread, you are invincible for 4 frames after ledgedash IF you do a perfect waveland from the edge. Thus you could do a perfect ledgedash to roll. But the execution necessary for that is sky-high, so it's not reasonable to attempt. You could go for ledgedash to shield though.

Assuming, I take it, that they won't be able to push you all the way back to the edge with a lone bair?

 

[ChivalRuse]

It wouldn't push you that far back since ledgedash puts you much further into the stage than the regular ledge get up.

 

[FE_Hector]

So ledgedash into shield, and then we're hoping it's not a spacie with crazy good shield pressure so we can WD OoS or grab OoS and either combo them to death (cuz we're Marth ) or get the game returned to neutral and hopefully teach them to fear Marth in neutral?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah it can be a great option for going from defense to neutral and getting things started again. One thing that I like to do to keep my opponents guessing when I'll do the ledgedash is to do "fake ledgehops" (i.e., let go of the ledge by pressing back and double jumping straight up, then fast falling and grabbing the ledge again). The beginning of this motion resembles the ledgehop motion for obvious reasons, and it will keep your timing ambiguous.

 

[FE_Hector]

Yeah it can be a great option for going from defense to neutral and getting things started again. One thing that I like to do to keep my opponents guessing when I'll do the ledgedash is to do "fake ledgehops" (i.e., let go of the ledge by pressing back and double jumping straight up, then fast falling and grabbing the ledge again). The beginning of this motion resembles the ledgehop motion for obvious reasons, and it will keep your timing ambiguous.

Yeah, I enjoy doing that, too. I've just found that you have to be super careful and not do it too often. As with anything Smash, if you don't mix up your options, even if it is a fakeout, your opponent is gonna get a read eventually. Seeing as we're talking about a situation where you're on the ledge, it could more than easily leave you open and in a situation where they can effortlessly KO you, especially if they have a spike and you get a bit lazy.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah but it's an option that the opponent can't really cover without putting themselves in danger of an invincible ledgehopped aerial. So they are less likely to risk it.

 

[FE_Hector]

True. I didn't consider the invincibility gained from that kind of a maneuver.