MasterKoga
Smash Cadet
Luigi Glide Tossing ?!
My made up abbrev's
FD - Final Destination or Forward roll down throw
FF - Forward throw forward roll
FB - forward roll back throw
FU - lol - Forward roll up throw
BF - Back roll forward throw
BB - Back roll back throw
BD - Back roll down throw
BU - Back roll up throw
Well I've had a bit of a fever lately, which is resulting in me getting up really early for some reason. As a result, I was bored and decided to fool around with Luigi's glide toss. I think it was discovered some months ago that Luigi had the longest one in the game but that it was difficult and impractical to do. I looked at the data thread again (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172861) and it shows...
Luigi - 2.0088
F - 0.1785
B - 0.357
FR - 1.4284
BR - 6.0714 (OMGWTFHAX)
These were the number of blocks in training mode that it takes you. Now, I'm not going to pretend I know a whole lot about glide tosses, but I know this: the data in this thread is absolute garbage. I hate how it goes out to four decimal places when it's frequently just lying. I hardly even know what forward reversal and back reversal are, but I'm not going to be playing by his rules. I'm using my own discoveries in training mode with bananas as my item. Also, I think the glide toss distance and speed is a combination of traction, roll speed, and throw abnormalities. For example, Luigi's back roll has a couple frames at startup where he's moving very quickly and he slows down from there. When you cancel this slowdown with the throw, his delightfully bad traction takes him quite a distance. So my completely bogus formula is
Glide toss length = Current velocity at time of cancel / traction
Just kidding.
Now that that's over, time to start explaining my thinking. Now, I'll agree that Luigi by far has the longest glide toss. I've seen it go the full length of FD in some cases, which I'm pretty sure is more than 6.0714 blocks in stage creator. I'm thinking there are 8 different glide tosses, 4 for each direction times 2 for each roll, because unlike his results, I can do a forward roll and glide toss a decent distance if I just toss up down or back.
There's also the issue of the exact frame the toss was performed on. This makes a radical difference to the distance, especially for Luigi. Unless I'm highly mistaken, the later you initiate the toss the further you go. This is obviously different for different rolls, but for Luigi's f-throw and b-throw I think it's that way. I wouldn't suggest even trying to get used to Luigi's GT's if you main or second diddy peach or R.O.B., the timing is too radical and takes a lot of practice to get used to.
After all this text, you may be wondering why I'm going through this when Luigi doesn't even have an item. Well Diddy is quickly climbing the ranks because of ****** tournaments, and it doesn't hurt to have a few tricks up your sleeve. Peach and R.O.B. are also BIG threats if you underestimate them. All three of them have an effective camping game with their respective item, and if you pierce those defenses with a back roll back throw GT and a downsmash, they'll get a lot of pressure put on them really quickly. Luigi is known to have trouble approaching, so in my opinion, it doesn't hurt to practice.
Now, for my summary on what I think of Luigi's glide tosses. These are subject to change because I'm half ******** at the moment with my fever and I might be screwing up the button presses somehow. Note the distance ratings are if you manage to glide toss at all; some of them are far easier to whiff than others, so if it was something like Decent - Great it would be harder to go nowhere than Terrible - Wonderful
1) Forward Roll Forward Throw
Oh god. This one's terrible
You've probably thought of figuring out some glide toss combos with Luigi and got smacked in the face with this piece of work. It BARELY moves him, far less than a shutter stepped fsmash. Fortunately, this is the only one that does so, all 7 of the other tosses at least move him enough to possibly get him out of harm's way. Rating: Worst
Distance: Terrible - Terrible
2) Forward Roll Backwards Throw
This GT is a decent way to "agressively retreat" but not so far that they can long-distance camp you again. It's about the perfect distance for a mid-range fireball camp I suppose, so that's a thought. It's also in essence unpunishable unless they're already on top of you - the banana will stave off ground approaches and you're put far enough away to dodge long range attacks. The distance is ok, it frequently goes about the distance of Luigi's dash trot, but I've seen it go longer on a rare occasion.
Rating: Decent
Distance: Meh (whiff) - Good (sweet)
Oh, and speaking of that, I've frequently found some of Luigi's more frame-tight glide tosses easier to pull off when he's already in momentum from a run. A dash tends to make it harder because of the pivot animation though. Anyways, on we go.
3) Forward Roll Down Throw
This is Luigi's only chance at a normal life. Er, that is to say, his only close range offensive glide toss. He slides more than the above scenario by a moderate amount, so it has a few viable applications. First if you're RIGHT NEXT to the opponent you can actually hit them with projectile of choice; for diddy, this means you go behind them and you can probably ftilt them into the banana for some fun times. For rob just combo into dsmash, and for Peach you actually can't hit her >_>. If you're not using it for the extremely impractical combo, it can be used for a quick wavedashey approach with dsmash or fsmash.
Rating: Decent
Distance: Decent - Great
4) Forward Roll Up Throw
Eh, this one's a bit cool. If you hit too early you'll go less distance than a "whiffed" FD but if you get the right frame you'll slide quite a bit, a tad more than a "sweetspot" FD. You can use it to slide up to the enemy for a dsmash as usual, but this time there's a banana coming down behind you, effectively walling the opponent from going behind you for a while. This could be effective near the edge I suppose ; the banana when falling prevents aerial escape and the dsmash pushes them away. I guess it is a bit more of an offensive maneuver than BU...
Rating: Decent
Distance: Slightly less decent - Slightly more great
5) Back Roll Forward Throw
Same as FB with slightly better distance.
Rating: Decent
Distance: Meh - Great
6) Back Roll Back Throw
WOAH NELLY !!! This is the famed super wavedash awesomeness that nobody ever talks about. (Though the BD is actually a bit easier to pull off and goes just as far ...) This is the one that I can't do very well without being in momentum. I walk away from the enemy, (Diddy: "Da hell?") then input the commands towards them. I actually use A for this one instead of C-stick, it works a bit better when you're walking away. Anywho, there are multiple distances depending on your competence, but I know the more common (non whiffish) ones are right next to the banana on the ground and significantly past the banana. If you didn't do the walk away thing, you'll probably just whiff it and turn around. Anyways, the practical uses for this are obvious: get in an enemy's defenses after possibly forcing down their guard by running away. Dsmash, lather, repeat if necessary. Also, I suggest you don't use any UpB shenanigans with this, you'll waste not only the banana but you'll probably just get hit. Jab cancel is much more reliable for that. Anyways, yeah. Super awesomeness sauceomeness.
Rating: Best ?
Distance: Terrible - Wonderful - Sublime
7) Back Roll Down Throw
Up next to the BB, this one packs quite a punch distance wise. I feel it's much easier not to whiff it when you're standing still, too, but it's still a good idea to walk away first. It's similar usage wise as BB with the obvious exception of the placing of the peel. You're also more likely to end up behind them seeing as they probably didn't get hit by the banana in the first place. The distance between mostly whiffed and sweetspot is around that of a sweet FD, btw.
Rating: Wonderful
Distance: Meh - Decent - Wonderful - Sublime
8) Back Roll Up Throw
This one's another humdinger. It's about the same as the above in terms of the different distances, but I don't think it goes quite as far when you super sweet it. Just use your imagination, this one isn't the most useful but I can think of a few scenarios where it might come in handy for stage control.
Rating: Great
Distance: Meh - Decent - Great - Wonderful
Well, that's it guys. This is just a work in progress I remind you, and since I'm super sick right now I might be missing something obvious. If you have any tips on organizing it better or making it easier to understand I'd really like to hear it
Also, if you're having trouble with the timing of "sweetspotted" tosses, try using a more rhythmic application of the buttons - it doesn't have to be the quickest thing in the world. Anyways, thanks n stuff !
EDIT: I tested glide tossing suit parts and it's sorta like rob's gyro, so that's good for combos. As far as wario's bike tires, I think it's be better to Z drop them in the air to capitalize on your priority than glide tossing, but it does open up basic combos.
