Smash 3DS Gimping removed from 3ds?

[The Original Zeph]

Hey guys I've never posted a thread on here ever, but I really wanted to hear others opinions on this subject. So recently I have been playing the 3DS demo and have noticed with the new ledge mechanics gimping seems nearly impossible to say the least. Along with every character having either buffed or just insanely good recovery in the demo it seems to make it even harder to do. I don't know if i'm the only one that feels this way but please guys tell your thought on it? I'm just kind of sad to see gimping go.

 

[Deleted member]

Gimping is far from impossible. I've gotten kills below 50% against level 9's before. You might be getting confused with edgehogging, which is impossible in the current engine.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Unless you're Little Mac, remember that your own recovery is pretty damn good too. Take advantage of that and go further offstage for stronger gimps. You can't get away with a light tap by the tail end of a sex kick anymore, you need to commit and try for something stronger, or a meteor smash.

 

[The Original Zeph]

Really, you have? I'm pretty sure I'm not getting them mixed I would gimp people all the time when I played melee. But I've been struggling with it in the demo. It just seems really hard to even get a kill at any low percentage for me.

 

[25%Cotton]

i've gotten a number of gimping kills (some spikes, some projectiles, some not). you just have to figure out how and with what moves.

there are particular characters that can recover from anywhere even if you hit them far out, but many characters that cannot (if you keep applying pressure), which i've found out especially through using duckhunt's can projectile. and spikes are more of a "for sure" thing due to hitstun (though this usually has to be mid/high percent otherwise the hitstun doesn't last long enough to make their death certain).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Really, you have? I'm pretty sure I'm not getting them mixed I would gimp people all the time when I played melee. But I've been struggling with it in the demo. It just seems really hard to even get a kill at any low percentage for me.

There seems to be a dichotomy in this game between onstage and offstage prowess. On the one hand, you have characters like Bowser and Little Mac who can kill at low percents and without ever leaving the stage because they're just that strong. On the other hand, you have characters like Villager who can gimp you for days because he can recover from literally anywhere. (Plus his bajillion onstage edgeguarding tools like the tree.) As a drawback, the former category suffers offstage from poor recovery, and the latter category has a hard time scoring direct KOs from onstage until you hit something like 150%.

Recoveries have been buffed. That includes your own. Take advantage of it and go deep. If you just wait around onstage near the ledge you're going to have a bad time.

(On the off chance we're having a communication issue, edgehogging has indeed been axed completely. I'm talking about physically jumping off and putting some hitboxes out.)

 

[The Original Zeph]

Yeah I definitely agree, it just seems like many characters have crazy recovery in this game (Like how villager can fly under FD to the other ledge.) i'll definitely will have to play more and see if I can get a gimp. Also if anyone has footage or can link footage of a gimp in this game it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Troyfullbuster]

Gimping is far from impossible. I've gotten kills below 50% against level 9's before. You might be getting confused with edgehogging, which is impossible in the current engine.

Yeah same dude ; Mario's fire ball and Link's arrows still gimp. Even their knockback is a little further/enhanced than previous games making GIMPing easier. I think OP is just thinking how everyone's up-B has a lot of better vertical movement and like you said confused edge-hogging with GIMP-ing

 

[The Original Zeph]

There seems to be a dichotomy in this game between onstage and offstage prowess. On the one hand, you have characters like Bowser and Little Mac who can kill at low percents and without ever leaving the stage because they're just that strong. On the other hand, you have characters like Villager who can gimp you for days because he can recover from literally anywhere. (Plus his bajillion onstage edgeguarding tools like the tree.) As a drawback, the former category suffers offstage from poor recovery, and the latter category has a hard time scoring direct KOs from onstage until you hit something like 150%.

Recoveries have been buffed. That includes your own. Take advantage of it and go deep. If you just wait around onstage near the ledge you're going to have a bad time.

(On the off chance we're having a communication issue, edgehogging has indeed been axed completely. I'm talking about physically jumping off and putting some hitboxes out.)

Nah I get what you're saying I'll definitely will have to try more of this when the full game is out but seriously thanks for the help/suggestions like I said in my first post I'm kind of new to the whole forum thing and its cool to see I'm getting help so fast, so thanks man.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

Ledge game meta is going to develop amazingly in this game compared to just hanging on the edge

 

[UnsuspectingVillager]

Gimping is pretty easy if your Mario, and your opponent is not Villager (his recovery is crazy good). Just Bair until he's off the edge and Meteor Smash.

 

[DJ3DS]

Yeah I definitely agree, it just seems like many characters have crazy recovery in this game (Like how villager can fly under FD to the other ledge.) i'll definitely will have to play more and see if I can get a gimp. Also if anyone has footage or can link footage of a gimp in this game it would be greatly appreciated.

There were several characters in Brawl who could go all the way underneath FD so this is nothing new. According to the Smash Wiki 23 of them could do it with varying degrees of ease.

 

[Troyfullbuster]

Nah I get what you're saying I'll definitely will have to try more of this when the full game is out but seriously thanks for the help/suggestions like I said in my first post I'm kind of new to the whole forum thing and its cool to see I'm getting help so fast, so thanks man.

no worries dude I'm pretty new too and nice binbougami ga icon! lol

 

[Raijinken]

Definitely still exists. I've seen plenty of matches that boil down to near-constant offstage and ledge play, since it's so much harder to get vertical and horizontal kills.

Now, if you're referring specifically to a low-percent gimp, those are pretty hard (but I'd be lying if I said I'm glad it takes higher percent). But just interrupting a person's recovery below-stage is more than feasible even at my mid-level of play.

 

[sssetz]

Yeah, edge-guarding in its old form is gone, but honestly I think there will be plenty of creative responses to this and ultimately will lead to more interesting edge tactics. Edge-guarding may have been a staple of competitive play but it was boring as hell.

 

[OnFullTilt]

Gimping is pretty easy if your Mario, and your opponent is not Villager (his recovery is crazy good). Just Bair until he's off the edge and Meteor Smash.

Apparently cape does wonders against Villager. I'm assuming that it either puts him in a terrible position or that it pops both balloons without refreshing the up B.

 

[Renji64]

Gimping is possible. Edgehogging isn't. Everyone has good recoveries minus a few people and the ledge changes help make getting back the stage more free.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

As others said here, gimping is still possible, edgehogging isn't. Glad it's gone though; others used it, I used it, everyone used it but I personally always thought that it was kind of a cheap move.

 

[Raijinken]

Gimping is possible. Edgehogging isn't. Everyone has good recoveries minus a few people and the ledge changes help make getting back the stage more free.

At the same time, the lack of repeat invincibility makes it risky to try to stall there, forcing people to either use rather predictable jump/attack/stand/roll climbups, or fall back down for a slightly safer aerial approach at the risk of their grab invincibility.

 

[Conda]

The ledge mechanic change makes gimping much more frequent.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Remember, the demo is only 2 minute matches. It's hard to get KOs in it sometimes just because of that time limit. Once you have more time to experiment and more time in matches in general, I'm sure things will pick up.

I find that it's much easier to gimp/edge-guard in this version. Back in Brawl, I was infamous for throwing myself off the edge and SDing trying to edge-guard. The new ledge mechanics encourage more courage offstage and I find that now I'm meteor smashing and gimping much more than I ever have because I feel secure in my ability to return to the stage.

 

[Untouch]

Gimping is easier, since everyone has much better recovery, jumping off the ledge to gimp is much less risky.

 

[simpleglitch]

Remember, the demo is only 2 minute matches. It's hard to get KOs in it sometimes just because of that time limit. Once you have more time to experiment and more time in matches in general, I'm sure things will pick up.

I find that it's much easier to gimp/edge-guard in this version. Back in Brawl, I was infamous for throwing myself off the edge and SDing trying to edge-guard. The new ledge mechanics encourage more courage offstage and I find that now I'm meteor smashing and gimping much more than I ever have because I feel secure in my ability to return to the stage.

I feel the same way as you. Brawl I loved to chase off the stage, but it often lead to a SD (or SD and KO) when doing so.

Not only is gimping easier this time around, some characters seem to be made for gimping. Mega-man in particular has a lot of good options for fighting off-stage (Dat DAir).

 

[Fire Tactician]

I feel the same way as you. Brawl I loved to chase off the stage, but it often lead to a SD (or SD and KO) when doing so.

Not only is gimping easier this time around, some characters seem to be made for gimping. Mega-man in particular has a lot of good options for fighting off-stage (Dat DAir).

On a similar note. I used to hate using Jigglypuff since I'd never be able to make it back to the ledge. Now, I really like using her and enjoy dancing off the ledge knowing that I can return safely.

 

[simpleglitch]

On a similar note. I used to hate using Jigglypuff since I'd never be able to make it back to the ledge. Now, I really like using her and enjoy dancing off the ledge knowing that I can return safely.

I hear that her wall of pain is gone though, but I suppose that would be fair if she has improved recovery. Might be a little broken otherwise.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Meta Knight's D-Air is still the god of all gimping as far as I've seen.

 

[The Original Zeph]

Remember, the demo is only 2 minute matches. It's hard to get KOs in it sometimes just because of that time limit. Once you have more time to experiment and more time in matches in general, I'm sure things will pick up.

I find that it's much easier to gimp/edge-guard in this version. Back in Brawl, I was infamous for throwing myself off the edge and SDing trying to edge-guard. The new ledge mechanics encourage more courage offstage and I find that now I'm meteor smashing and gimping much more than I ever have because I feel secure in my ability to return to the stage.

Yeah that's true I guess all I can really do is wait Oct. 3rd. Seriously though it takes forever to kill in that game two minutes is way too short.

 

[simpleglitch]

Yeah that's true I guess all I can really do is wait Oct. 3rd. Seriously though it takes forever to kill in that game two minutes is way too short.

Out of curiosity, who are you playing against? Friends or AI (and what level)?

 

[Fire Tactician]

I hear that her wall of pain is gone though, but I suppose that would be fair if she has improved recovery. Might be a little broken otherwise.

Again, I never really used Jigglypuff beforehand, so I'm not too up to date with all the terminology, but from a more casual standpoint, she feels safer and better. She also appreciates that new sweet-spot on her Bair.

Yeah that's true I guess all I can really do is wait Oct. 3rd. Seriously though it takes forever to kill in that game two minutes is way too short.

Yeah, that's a bit of a demo design flaw. I got bored and frustrated with the demo a bit by day three, but all of my concerns dissipated when I got the actual game. Best of luck waiting!

 

[The Original Zeph]

So I have been watching some gameplay and have finally seen some gimps. I guess i'm just not used to the engine in smash 4 and it feels so different from other games to gimp but overall thanks for the help and support guys, the smash community is the best.

 

[Overtaken]

Whew, I definitely feel validated after reading this thread. My friend asked me just earlier how the game feels (at least from the demo) because he hasn't gotten his 3ds connected to wifi yet, and I told him I was concerned about the blast lines, but figured that it could just mean that the meta was designed to encourage creative and balanced edgeguarding in a way it hasn't been in previous smash games. Glad I'm not the only one who picked up on this, because we need the meta to be developed this way as it would be the saving grace for this game's competitive prospects, and if done exceptionally well, it could mean Smash4 stands a very solid chance at usurping Melee as having the deepest gameplay as well as the funnest. And that would make the next 7-8 years all the better. (My one-year-old daughter is going to be well into grade school the next time a Smash game comes out and I'm going to be in my 30's....God that's scary....)

 

[The Original Zeph]

Out of curiosity, who are you playing against? Friends or AI (and what level)?

Just the lvl. 9 CPU's i'm stuck with.

 

[Ganreizu]

Meta Knight is the god of all gimping as far as I've seen.

Fixed. That seems to be the major strength his entire character was built around in this game. His onstage game seems mediocre.

 

[simpleglitch]

Just the lvl. 9 CPU's i'm stuck with.

That's likely why KOs take so long
The Level 9s perfect shield/dodge with reflexes better than any human player, which makes landing KO incredibly difficult.

I would almost suggest level 7 CPUs, they are a little easier, but also more realistic (and actually change up their behavior once in a while). KO shots can actually be landed, though the still put up a fight (watch out for Mario's cape if your mega-man, found out he can also reflect Dair...)

 

[DakotaBonez]

I've been knocking out CPUs with the footstool jump, I think I'm gettin pretty good with it.
So far my record in the demo is 3 KOs. I definitely don't need 2 minutes to get 2 KOs though, at least on CPUs.

 

[DoubleYooToo]

I'm glad edgehogging is gone, it was always a cheap move and felt outside the spirit of the game. Having to put actual effort into stopping people from recovering is how it should be.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Gimping is no longer gone but you have to put in extra work this game to do it. When I first started playing I thought it was impossible. I would knock people way off and they would always return. Also I would catch their second jump and they would still return. It was frustrating at first. But then I realized my recovery is just as good or better. So now I put in the extra work to chase offstage. It's pretty satisfying when a gimp actually works because of the effort it takes. Offstage play is definitely more accessible. I feel really comfortable jumping off the ledge and I don't have much fear of not returning. One time I fought on and off the ledge for a good 10 -20 seconds. It really makes for some exciting play

 

[shogungari]

If you want a gimper, the villager has you covered in the demo. 60% of my KOs were from his side airs and constantly pushing the opponent so that they couldn't recover even with their third jump. I've been killing AI at as low as 50% with him. The other 40% was woodicide.

 

[simpleglitch]

If you want a gimper, the villager has you covered in the demo. 60% of my KOs were from his side airs and constantly pushing the opponent so that they couldn't recover even with their third jump. I've been killing AI at as low as 50% with him. The other 40% was woodicide.

As far as gimping goes, Mega-man is right up there too. Solid Fair and Bair for chasing opponents off the stage (bair has higher knockback), a good vertical recovery with his up special (that also lets you change the direction your facing in mid air), and a Projectile D-Air that spikes (only draw back is that it can be reflected).

 

[Roko Jono]

I pretty much agree with everyone here. You have to work harder to get a gimp. If you come from melee like me just remember this: recoveries are buffed like in brawl, but it works for the offensive as well. Why? Well now you can chase them way off the stage, use an aerial, and still make it back. In the demo you can go so far offstage with Link you'd be surprised you can even make it back to the ledge.