giantass penguin first impressions thread

[dskank]

so i realized some things while woopin dat ass with dedede tonight. now i dont know if yall mutha ****as realized this, but.. dedede.. is a giant ass penguin.. with a giant ass hammer..

now i repped his highness for about 30 matches, and i have to say even tho i lost very few of them, fighting fast chars like greninja and sonic is really not fun its just getting hassled till you get a grab and combo for $. so i guess nothing has changed from the brawl days

and also like brawl, majority of my kills came from chaining many fairs and bairs in a row. unlike brawl, deded HAS NO GODDAMN UP TILT. which means his only good onstage kill move is gone. to kill with a smas you basically need a hard read, maybe this only applies to greninja and his ilk tho.

but on the bright side. landing just about anything with dedede feels very satisfying. especially dthrow combos and chaining fairs off stage. about every fourth match contained a 4 fair chain, that **** feels awesome.

on another positive, inhale seems slightly buffed, but also slightly nerfed. ive always been a inhale heavy dedede, having an aerial command grab is invaluable. the range on inhave is much larger, but grab armor is gone in this game so now he can get hit while suckin. but overall i think inhales new properties are an improvement.

just my first impressions. what are yours?

 

[KeithTheGeek]

As I said in the social, he feels very solid. I myself hail more from the PM scene rather than Brawl (though I mained him back then as well) but I haven't had that much trouble adjusting to his new tools.

I do think his range has been nerfed a bit, particularly grab range. New bair is really nice, but I miss the lingering hitbox of his old amazing bair. Thankfully, it seems to still be pretty lag-less (relative to his other aerials). Having a meteor smash is very welcome as well, definitely helps out Dedede's off stage options.

Gordo is a bit too easy to bounce back. I would prefer it to require moves with heavier knockback, perhaps with weaker moves just making it stall out a bit rather than flinging it back. They still seem like a viable tool however, and good for applying pressure outside of the neutral game.

I will say I found Pac-man annoying to deal with. I had a hard time getting in on my friend's Pac, and he's not really of the competitive type. If he manages to eat a power pellet from his side b, you literally don't have any options to deal with it aside from shield and hope you react fast enough to punish it. You can, however, attack the pellet to bump him out of the move and possibly react from there. Pac-man also has flat-out superior projectiles to our Gordo, but we can knock them out of the air and use them for ourselves. Some of his attacks also seem to beat out our hammer, though I'm not sure how much of that was due to the online lag affecting my reaction time.

But yeah, penguin feels good man.

 

[theta64]

i dont think his weakness is against fast enemies, I beat sonics, and other fast characters. i think it is the projectiles characters that give him trouble. being at range from those characters can be a hassle for the big fella

 

[dskank]

one think i didnt notice untill today. regarding his down b, after ddd pulls out his hammer, the actual attack is very fast. it seems great for punishing opponents recovering high.

 

[Usopp]

Hes so good. I main him in brawl, he is my 2nd main in PM after wolf. and im loving him in this game. Took out a bunch of little macs on wifi. feels great.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Just played a bunch of For Glory matches. There's some good players crawling around on there. Dedede seems to wreck Captain Falcon pretty hard in my experience.

 

[toadster101]

His new back air is terrible compared to the old one. But other than that, I'm doing well with Dedede. Just watch out for projectiles.

 

[dskank]

mind blown. gordos stuck to walls still have an active hit box. i just saw my gordo gimp someone. this could be great.

 

[Percentful]

I miss the Utilt, but I'm liking his improved Dsmash. It'll actually hit people offstage, which gives so many options with gordos and his new Dair.

I like him a lot. I think he's actually more fun and interesting to play now.

 

[LucidDreamGod]

Well I didn't really use him in brawl. But I find him really useful in this game. I've blasted through people online with well timed gordo throws, they offer an angle of attack that is unexpected by most players, especially those who don't use many projectiles and are larger. Also great for edge guarding lowish recoveries. I listened to dskank and it's true, for high recoveries that hammer of his is the boss, just warm that baby up as they come flying down and let it go and watch them fly, it's fast and almost always a KO against decently beaten up opponents.

His hammer has a nice range, especially on his neutral attack which keeps people from getting too close. I dodge them until I see an opening and then twist them away. I try not to do dash attacks as they have too much lag, but plenty of times I tend to fall into them on accident. As a character that can take a lot, and still has decent recoveries he can take quite a beating before being KOed.

A major problem is getting back on the ground when tossed up in the air.

I've never cared for faster weaker characters, maybe it's because I'm not that on the ball every moment and tend to slip up. In this game especially though, as I feel like my attacks have trouble connecting using smaller characters.

 

[dskank]

Well I didn't really use him in brawl. But I find him really useful in this game. I've blasted through people online with well timed gordo throws, they offer an angle of attack that is unexpected by most players, especially those who don't use many projectiles and are larger. Also great for edge guarding lowish recoveries. I listened to dskank and it's true, for high recoveries that hammer of his is the boss, just warm that baby up as they come flying down and let it go and watch them fly, it's fast and almost always a KO against decently beaten up opponents.

His hammer has a nice range, especially on his neutral attack which keeps people from getting too close. I dodge them until I see an opening and then twist them away. I try not to do dash attacks as they have too much lag, but plenty of times I tend to fall into them on accident. As a character that can take a lot, and still has decent recoveries he can take quite a beating before being KOed.

A major problem is getting back on the ground when tossed up in the air.

I've never cared for faster weaker characters, maybe it's because I'm not that on the ball every moment and tend to slip up. In this game especially though, as I feel like my attacks have trouble connecting using smaller characters.

inhale is a great tool for making it back to the ground, just b reverse it alot, it really throws people off. really all you need is the fast fall inhale, it beats most of the options grounded opponents have.

and for extra down b hammer mind games, charge it while they are recovering low to the ledge. this will scare the **** out of your opponent; if they do normal stand up wack. if the jump, so do you, then wack. stand just out of range of their get up attack. most opponents will just sit on the ledge waiting for you to blank swing as to not take damage from your own hammer, this is where it gets really fun, turn your back to them then jump off the edge and punish whatever they do, if they just sit on the ledge stage spike da *** out them, ect.

ddd is truely the most troll/mind-gamey character in smash 4, i love it.

oh and food for thought, dash attack hits opponents on the ledge. i think you can figure out what to do with this xD

 

[HolePuncher]

Any tips on how to handle projectile spam?

Lately the characters giving me the most trouble are the ones that just sit back on the other side of the stage and spam projectiles. Obviously DHD, but also yoshi, mario... really anyone that wants to sit back and spam. I can't use gordos because those just come back at me. Closing the distance means either using my jumps to float over everything, or run-shield-run-shield-etc. Either way I usually take a little damage when closing the distance, then the enemy simply runs away again.

Any ideas?

P.S. Playing on stages with platforms would help, but unfortunately no platforms in 'For Glory' mode.

 

[Super Fighting Robot]

Wasn't even gonna main him until this weekend. If he is that badass enough to make a megaman fanatic main to change his main then he must be pretty good

 

[grandpappy]

D3 is so much fun. It's the most satisfying sound in the world when you smack somebody with his hammer.

Took out a bunch of little macs on wifi. feels great.

There's so many kids in For Glory playing Little Mac. Dedede seems like he wrecks Mac pretty hard. It's funny

 

[Super Fighting Robot]

Any tips on how to handle projectile spam?

Lately the characters giving me the most trouble are the ones that just sit back on the other side of the stage and spam projectiles. Obviously DHD, but also yoshi, mario... really anyone that wants to sit back and spam. I can't use gordos because those just come back at me. Closing the distance means either using my jumps to float over everything, or run-shield-run-shield-etc. Either way I usually take a little damage when closing the distance, then the enemy simply runs away again.

Any ideas?

P.S. Playing on stages with platforms would help, but unfortunately no platforms in 'For Glory' mode.

I just hate that every projectile launches the gordo back so fast for like no reason

 

[allshort17]

I recently got 5th at a tournament using Dedede (plus a little Jiggs and Donkey Kong.) I'm just going to go through all his moves and share how I feel about them.

Jab: Nerf
Jab wasn't used by Dedede's to begin with, though I did use it more than most. A good thing is that since dtilt has been replaced, this is the new quick poke. It still works in that regard. However, I had trouble linking the full jab combo, moreso than in Brawl. So, we can't really abuse jabs like others can. It can't be canceled into grab either. Also, because of the auto-hit at the end of the rapid hits, it loses some effectiveness as an edgeguarding tool or a spotdodge/roll punish. It's a situational move as it was before, but ultimately more situational.

Ftilt: Buff
The new pivot mechanic really helps this move. You can pivot tilt pretty quickly, so this is a solid poke and a good option to escape close-range pressure with. The move is multi-hit now with a strong hit at the end. This solves the problem of ftilt being unsafe on hit at low percents and is still useful for spotdodge at the expense of losing some mid-percent combo potential. Also, just by eyeing it the move may have less range. In this engine though, it's a good move.

Dtilt: Neutral
I don't know how I feel about this move. It hits the same as Brawl dtilt, just in a rolling animation. For example, it still has solid knockback and comes out fairly quickly. It sends the opponent at a more horizontal angel, as in Brawl, making it good as a GTFO move that gives nice stage control. It combos into itself at low percents, combos from dthrow at low percents, and still has good priority, evident after I used it to cancel out one of Diddy's banana after he pulled it. It just a matter of how you use it. It's not a spacing tool like in Brawl and doesn't work very well for safe ledge play, but it has more anti-air qualities because of it's higher vertical hitbox, can be used to escape close range pressure while still having a hitbox out, and can kinda be used as an approach. Dedede's will have to adapt to this move.

Utilt: Nerf
It doesn't kill at as low of percents and the hitbox shrunk. It's still a kill move and an anti-air, just worse.

Fsmash: Buff
Essentially, it's the same move. Still has a nice hitbox that hits very far behind and above Dedede at the beginning. Also, it's still just as strong coming down. The pivot mechanic just gives it more uses which is why it's buffed. I liked using Fsmash in Brawl, believe that behind dtilt, it was Dedede's second most underrated move. I'll enjoy it more in Smash 4

Dsmash: Neutral
It's the same too. I may be stronger, which is good for kills, but decreases its early percent combo potential. Didn't spend enough time with this move to judge.

Upsmash: Neutral
I'm leaning on calling this a nerf because it felt smaller to me and the weak hit felt weaker which was weird. It may also be stronger. But again, I didn't use this move enough.

Dash attack: Buff
It has super armor, which is good for any heavy character. It may have more of a use now because of that. Still amazing for catching rolls and I believe there is a longer weak hitbox.

Nair: Buff
Because of the increased hitstun, this move is way better for comboing. It will still be used in the same situations at in Brawl, just with more reward. It may be stronger, which is nice, and the end lag is still low.

Fair: Nerf
Slight nerf because you can't short hop autocancel this move anymore, which would be amazing because you can combo this from dthrow. It's stronger and the hitbox is bigger because Dedede does a complete flip around. It's better for offstage kills, but the lack of ability to use it for on-stage zoning subtracts usefulness. Oh, and it's unsafe on hit a low percents if you short hop it. Bummer.

Bair: Nerf
It's not that his move is bad, it's just that the old bair was so good. It will be used in the exact same situations as the old one, but it's just worse. The move is essentially Dedede's old fair, so it autocancels on shorthop. I see myself using this to follow up dthrow once I can properly turn-around bair (3DS circle pad is poo.) It has high knockback, making it good for offstage kills and gimps. It's slower and has no weak hit though, so little combo potential. I like the move, just missing my homie, Brawl bair.

Uair: Buff
It serves the same purposes as before, just better. You can combo this easily from up-throw and it actually kills now. I didn't get to see if this still combos into up-throw at high percents, but it's still good.

Dair: Neutral
It's a spike. Yay. I didn't really get to use it, but it felt very weird to me. The move came out at an awkward point and it's not obvious what the spike hitbox is. It's not multi-hit anymore, so no more shield pressure or fast falling it to escape juggles. But it could complement Dedede's offstage game well.

Grabs: Nerf/Neutral
Not on range. The range, surprisingly, felt just a big. Standing grab is still quick and large, however I didn't get to try pivot grab. The reason I say grabs are nerfed is because dash grab isn't as large. Dedede just hops on one leg while trying to grab you instead of rolling and grabbing. It just isn't as long as a grab out of a standing position. It bother me a bit because I liked to instant dash grab in Brawl because that was his longest grab. But, other, more conventional Dedede's shouldn't notice.

F-throw: Neutral
The same knochback, angel, and I believe it still does it's stock %12.

B-throw: Nerf
Same knockback and angel, so still solid for follow-ups, but the lack of a quick bair and the %2 damage decrease causes the move to lose some usefulness.

Upthrow: Buff
Same throw, but the guaranteed up air follow up makes it better.

Dthrow: Nerf
We all knew this move would be nerfed, but it's still a good replacement. The move has shallow knockback, so it easily sets up for combos through mid percents. At %0 it even gives the potential for a regrab if the opponent is read. I didn't get to see if this move can put people on platforms, but if it can its a buff. Still scary, just not terrifying.

Neutral-B: Nerf
Can still be b-reversed and feels the same as Brawl's, which is a nerf in itself. Brawl inhale lost to a lot of moves I feel it shouldn't have, like Wario's bite and Marth's everything. It's feeling the same way in this game. The reason it's nerfed is because of the lack of grab armor. Also, the spit may send opponents farther because it was harder to try to pressure people afterwards, but that may be due to the lack of a quick bair.

Side-B: Buff
My favorite buff, which may not be considered a buff by people. Brawl waddle dee toss served really 3 purposes: a projectile, a meat shield, and stage control through the use of waddle doo. As a projectile, it's neutral. It's stronger, doing %14 percent on hit and traveling in about the same ark as waddle dee toss. As a meat shield, big nerf. Anything can hit this move back and all the damage comes back to you. Side-B spam is effectively gone. The last usage, stage control, is my favorite buff and a big buff in my opinion. Sending the gordo straight upwards creates an amazing wall for Dedede to hide behind. It's good for ledge play and to keep pressure after a hit that knocks the opponent upwards. Because it will be used this way when Dedede is in an advantageous position, it's more unlikely the opponent will hit the gorbo back at you and if they try, you can read it and shield grab. If you're fast enough, you can combo into the gordo or combo from a gordo hit. Another plus is the fact that the actually hammer swing is a hitbox. Waddle dee toss actually didn't produce a hitbox right in front of Dedede. So, this is a subtle buff which is enhanced by the fact the the hammer hit can combo into the gordo. I love this move so much!

Down-B: Neutral
Didn't use it and will never use it.

Up-B: Buff
It can sweetspot on the the way up, which is a nice change. Also, if you hit a grounded opponent, it puts them into the pitfall animation. If Dedede is still able to cancel this move immediately on hit, which I didn't test, then this just added to the gimmick of landing on stage with up-b. Just get used to canceling the up-b with up and not down. This killed me many times early on.

Overall: Slight nerf
Dedede plays the same as Brawl Dedede, just without the easy mode tools. You trade a better ground zoning game with the use of dtilt, pivot ftilt, and gordo toss for Brawl Dedede's better air game. Offstage, the higher knockback on his aerials and his spike kinda negate the fact that he can chain bairs into ledgehog like in Brawl. His combo game is more consistent overall and, barring dthrow, you can still treat his throws the same. Customs could open up some new possibilities for Dedede, as I am excited to try his leaping inhale, sumer armor down-b, and longer lasting side-b. Dedede mains will be happy that their janky character is still mainly in tact.

 

[LucidDreamGod]

Any tips on how to handle projectile spam?

Lately the characters giving me the most trouble are the ones that just sit back on the other side of the stage and spam projectiles. Obviously DHD, but also yoshi, mario... really anyone that wants to sit back and spam. I can't use gordos because those just come back at me. Closing the distance means either using my jumps to float over everything, or run-shield-run-shield-etc. Either way I usually take a little damage when closing the distance, then the enemy simply runs away again.

Any ideas?

P.S. Playing on stages with platforms would help, but unfortunately no platforms in 'For Glory' mode.

Well I just beat a really decent Link who spammed projectiles the whole match, quite a long one at that. I think the trick is, get good at spacial awareness and dodging around them. Also every once in awhile I'll lunge an Fair at them and they don't expect that or a gordo from above especially if they're edge camping.

Now I'm having trouble with small fast characters like kirby who like to jump into me.

 

[-Jax]

Any tips on how to handle projectile spam?

I usually spam gordos from the air, or just walk towards them and shield their projectiles along the way until I'm in ftilt range, where they either roll and I can grab them, or I can edge in for an ftilt. Other than that it really depends on the projectile user, as they all have sort of different zones you'll want to avoid.

 

[dean.]

@ allshort17 interesting list, not sure I 100% agree with it though but you've probably had more experience with Dedede so far.
My initial impressions are:
Jab: buff; Brawl's was slow (12 frames or something? ludicrous for a jab), didn't string into itself well and wasn't rewarding on hit unless you cancelled jab2 into a grab. Jab now does 17% if all hits connect (which I've found it to do pretty well except against characters like Jigglypuff), kills well (I killed a Pikachu off the top of FD at 110% lol) and is much quicker and safer than before. Love it now.

Ftilt: buff; more damage (9% compared to 6%) and more knockback make this move better imo, I think it might be a bit laggier but don't quote me on that lol. My first choice for punishing oos at the moment.

Fsmash: buff; because it feels a bit faster and doesn't seem to have changed otherwise. Still not a move I'd use much.

Dtilt: I feel it's been nerfed, range and speed are the same as before but the way he throws his whole body out there makes it seem less safe, but it does have a bigger vertical hitbox and might be a little more rewarding on hit... maybe neutral.

Dsmash: buff; seems faster and a bit more powerful. But horizontal killers are a bit less reliable compared to vertical killers; it can change a lot depending on whether you catch them right at the ledge or on the opposite side of the stage lol.

Utilt: nerf; speed and range are still fine, they just took away all of the ludicrous kill power.

Usmash: buff; a good bit faster and more powerful. Never purposefully used this in Brawl but it's actually pretty nice now.

Dash attack: I was going to say neutral because it seemed the same, but if it does have super armour (which I haven't experienced yet) then it would have to be buffed.

Grab: nerf, goodbye ridiculous range.

Fthrow: probably nerf; does less damage.

Bthrow: neutral; less damage but kills solidly now (as in like before 200%)

uthrow: neutral, I still don't use it lol

dthrow: nerf, lol

Nair: buff; weak nair strings a bit better now and strong nair is a very solid kill move.

Fair: when I first played the game I thought they nerfed it lol, but after playing it some more it is decently fast and strings well; I have to say it's not as powerful as I'd like though. And I did quite like Brawl fair. But overall a small buff.

Bair: NERF

Uair: buff; kills better and is harder to escape without any noticeable downsides except less damage.

Dair: nerf; slow. Rewarding on hit, but slow.

Inhale: now when we try to suicide on last stock we die first which I'm pretty bummed about. In my region we played the last few months of brawl using a one-stock ruleset and this move made me feel I always had a chance of pulling off a comeback, no matter how far down i was lol. even when both players aren't on their last stock, i think characters with good vertical recovery might still be able to recover from dededecide? i have no idea though.
anyway, other than dededecide nerf this is still the same as before but overall nerf.

Gordo Throw: this is a very powerful tool, the upwards toss is a great spacing tool. When the game first came out I made the mistake of trying to spam these at distance; the two people I played with hit them right back at me with either dash attack (Mac) or Egg Toss (Yoshi). Since then I'm a lot more careful with these.
Waddles did have their advantages. Being able to block projectiles such as Diddy's bananas. Having two out at once, and not failing when you tried to have more (old ones would just disappear). Brawl Gordos were much more powerful. You could refresh moves on waddles (lol). But overall Gordo Throw is a much more useful tool.

Super Dedede Jump: BUFF. HOLY COW IT SWEETSPOTS EDGES NOW. I never would've lost a brawl tournament if i had this up-b and jab lol.

Jet Hammer: neutral; you can't polish a turd.


And my take on customs, since it seems like my scene plans to use them in tournaments:

Dedede Storm (neutral 2): an interesting choice but I think the grab box on Inhale is too good to pass up.
Taste Test (neutral 3): probably by preferred option; with dededecide dead the only real use for standard inhale would be to turn around and spit them at the ledge. But I prefer the increased damage and (I think) quicker start-up/less lag from this one.

Topspin Gordo (side 2): probably functions more like a spam projectile than a zoning projectile. Also does less damage than the standard. Haven't tried this against real people though.
Bouncing Gordo (side 3): I think the arc might be a bit big to be of real use. Also weaker than the other two. But once again, haven't used this in PvP.

Rising Dedede (up 2): now that up-B sweetspots the ledge I find myself not needing the downwards attack anymore. Therefore having an upwards attack seems great, since this move doesn't lose out on any of the speed or range of the standard one.
Quick Dedede Jump (up 3): lose some distance and power for extra speed; also seems like a fine option but i prefer #2.

Armoured Jet Hammer (down 2): does less damage but has super armour... meh
Dash Jet Hammer (down 3): lunges forwards when he hits them ... meh. Probably a bit more useful but still wouldn't use it.


As for the character as a whole, he feels pretty mid-tier-ish to me so far. But time will tell.

 

[allshort17]

@ allshort17 interesting list, not sure I 100% agree with it though but you've probably had more experience with Dedede so far.
My initial impressions are:
Jab: buff; Brawl's was slow (12 frames or something? ludicrous for a jab), didn't string into itself well and wasn't rewarding on hit unless you cancelled jab2 into a grab. Jab now does 17% if all hits connect (which I've found it to do pretty well except against characters like Jigglypuff), kills well (I killed a Pikachu off the top of FD at 110% lol) and is much quicker and safer than before. Love it now.

Ftilt: buff; more damage (9% compared to 6%) and more knockback make this move better imo, I think it might be a bit laggier but don't quote me on that lol. My first choice for punishing oos at the moment.

Fsmash: buff; because it feels a bit faster and doesn't seem to have changed otherwise. Still not a move I'd use much.

Dtilt: I feel it's been nerfed, range and speed are the same as before but the way he throws his whole body out there makes it seem less safe, but it does have a bigger vertical hitbox and might be a little more rewarding on hit... maybe neutral.

Dsmash: buff; seems faster and a bit more powerful. But horizontal killers are a bit less reliable compared to vertical killers; it can change a lot depending on whether you catch them right at the ledge or on the opposite side of the stage lol.

Utilt: nerf; speed and range are still fine, they just took away all of the ludicrous kill power.

Usmash: buff; a good bit faster and more powerful. Never purposefully used this in Brawl but it's actually pretty nice now.

Dash attack: I was going to say neutral because it seemed the same, but if it does have super armour (which I haven't experienced yet) then it would have to be buffed.

Grab: nerf, goodbye ridiculous range.

Fthrow: probably nerf; does less damage.

Bthrow: neutral; less damage but kills solidly now (as in like before 200%)

uthrow: neutral, I still don't use it lol

dthrow: nerf, lol

Nair: buff; weak nair strings a bit better now and strong nair is a very solid kill move.

Fair: when I first played the game I thought they nerfed it lol, but after playing it some more it is decently fast and strings well; I have to say it's not as powerful as I'd like though. And I did quite like Brawl fair. But overall a small buff.

Bair: NERF

Uair: buff; kills better and is harder to escape without any noticeable downsides except less damage.

Dair: nerf; slow. Rewarding on hit, but slow.

Inhale: now when we try to suicide on last stock we die first which I'm pretty bummed about. In my region we played the last few months of brawl using a one-stock ruleset and this move made me feel I always had a chance of pulling off a comeback, no matter how far down i was lol. even when both players aren't on their last stock, i think characters with good vertical recovery might still be able to recover from dededecide? i have no idea though.
anyway, other than dededecide nerf this is still the same as before but overall nerf.

Gordo Throw: this is a very powerful tool, the upwards toss is a great spacing tool. When the game first came out I made the mistake of trying to spam these at distance; the two people I played with hit them right back at me with either dash attack (Mac) or Egg Toss (Yoshi). Since then I'm a lot more careful with these.
Waddles did have their advantages. Being able to block projectiles such as Diddy's bananas. Having two out at once, and not failing when you tried to have more (old ones would just disappear). Brawl Gordos were much more powerful. You could refresh moves on waddles (lol). But overall Gordo Throw is a much more useful tool.

Super Dedede Jump: BUFF. HOLY COW IT SWEETSPOTS EDGES NOW. I never would've lost a brawl tournament if i had this up-b and jab lol.

Jet Hammer: neutral; you can't polish a turd.


And my take on customs, since it seems like my scene plans to use them in tournaments:

Dedede Storm (neutral 2): an interesting choice but I think the grab box on Inhale is too good to pass up.
Taste Test (neutral 3): probably by preferred option; with dededecide dead the only real use for standard inhale would be to turn around and spit them at the ledge. But I prefer the increased damage and (I think) quicker start-up/less lag from this one.

Topspin Gordo (side 2): probably functions more like a spam projectile than a zoning projectile. Also does less damage than the standard. Haven't tried this against real people though.
Bouncing Gordo (side 3): I think the arc might be a bit big to be of real use. Also weaker than the other two. But once again, haven't used this in PvP.

Rising Dedede (up 2): now that up-B sweetspots the ledge I find myself not needing the downwards attack anymore. Therefore having an upwards attack seems great, since this move doesn't lose out on any of the speed or range of the standard one.
Quick Dedede Jump (up 3): lose some distance and power for extra speed; also seems like a fine option but i prefer #2.

Armoured Jet Hammer (down 2): does less damage but has super armour... meh
Dash Jet Hammer (down 3): lunges forwards when he hits them ... meh. Probably a bit more useful but still wouldn't use it.


As for the character as a whole, he feels pretty mid-tier-ish to me so far. But time will tell.

My opinion doesn't mean much. I don't even have the game and sent a day playing it before the tournament. haha. I mainly just used my Brawl fundamentals.

 

[WingedKnight]

You guys basically covered it. Dedede has had a few nerfs, a few buffs, and a number of wholesale changes and sidegrades. Plays very differently in some aspects but overall he's the same old penguin. I really like how they adapted him to the mechanic changes of this game, and he definitely feels like he's competitively solid: IMO in the upper half of the roster in terms of utility, at least. Gone are chaingrabs and Waddle spam, welcome combos and Gordo pressure.

 

[shlemon]

From what I can tell, dthrow true combos into bair even at medium %. This is a much better option than fair because you dont get landing lag and it has higher knockback. Fair can leave you open to counterattack.

 

[-Jax]

From what I can tell, dthrow true combos into bair even at medium %. This is a much better option than fair because you dont get landing lag and it has higher knockback. Fair can leave you open to counterattack.

Do you mean dthrow -> turn around -> bair? Or do you just use it while facing the normal direction?

Edit: nvm, I tested it myself and there's more than enough time to turn around. Nice find! I found the easiest way to execute this is by just holding back while the throw animation plays, and then just acting as if you would try to fair.

 

[WingedKnight]

Oh man. Going for the Back Air is way better...more free damage and more punch. Very nice.

It's certainly trickier to pull off consistently by virtue of having more to do, but buffering the turnaround while throwing and then jumping into the aerial is helpful. Thanks for the tip, -Jax! Now I just have to unlearn the now reflexive input for the DThrow-FAir combo. I'd just gotten over trying a second grab, now I need to work on the proper BAir input.

 

[-Jax]

Oh man. Going for the Back Air is way better...more free damage and more punch. Very nice.

It's certainly trickier to pull off consistently by virtue of having more to do, but buffering the turnaround while throwing and then jumping into the aerial is helpful. Thanks for the tip, -Jax! Now I just have to unlearn the now reflexive input for the DThrow-FAir combo. I'd just gotten over trying a second grab, now I need to work on the proper BAir input.

Yeah, I've found that in some matches I still just go for a fair because it's more reliable for me right now, though I really need to start to try getting in the habit of using bair. I'm pretty bad at comboing because I get a bit panicky in actual fights, so I always try to figure out the easiest way to execute stuff...

The funniest thing is how they got rid of the chaingrab on his dthrow, but instead gave him a lot of combo options out of his dthrow, still making it the go-to throw for Dedede if your aim is damage racking. I don't know if it was intentional, but its nice to still have his throws serve the same purpose more or less.

 

[DarkDream]

Just played against this dude. No idea how to deal with him at all. His airs to quick, do too much knockback damage shield damage shield pushback to punish, forward tilt is just too strong, grab range better than all my characters, gordos are dumb good. Idk what to do