Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[?!?!?!]

I believe I said something similar earlier but, I wanted to follow up on it. First here is my original post. In the history of image/video leaks for the Super Smash Bros. series, every time when there is a fake made by an individual, the person responsible for the fake will step forward and claim that they are the one who made it (the only times this doesn't happen is when the leak is easily seen as a fake). Some examples: Palutena hoax, Rayman hoax (made by Artsy Omni) and the Dr. Mario Stage leak all had their creators come forward and reveal they made the fakes. These artists often tend to show their skills through these leaks and sometimes even provide a video of them making the leak.

Yet for this leak the image has such low quality, there is no point to stepping forward and taking credit. If someone stepped forward to reveal they made this fake leak there would be nothing to be proud of because the image quality is so bad. Previous fake leaks gave us images/videos that could fit the style of the game and are creations that Artsy Omni and others can be proud of. But this? This image isn't even able to show the artistic craftsmanship that was put into it. If the banner leak is fake, then I cannot help but wonder what the point of all of that trouble was.

Good point. What's the point of faking it if you don't want to gain publicity from it? This is definitely in favor of it being real, for now

 

[pholtos]

Took a look at every sprite sheet I could find for harvest moon games and their crops. All of them are similar, they lean to the right. Or in the DS game's case, both leaves are even, so no leaning.

I'm also of the opinion that a harvest moon sprout seems silly since food items already spawn through other means, while a sprout would probably mean a plant would grow over time and eventually release a food item or a couple food items.

While this is not something that has been in the game before, it doesn't really add anything super unique.

Edit: Things I could imagine as a harvest moon item would be a hoe, fishing pole or a cow.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

BeatEmUps and Nintendo Life have both claimed to have insiders who say it's fake. Papa Geno has his insider saying Banjo is in. Spawn Wave said his insider said it was real but was missing baracat right?
What have other industry insiders been saying?

 

[Nazyrus]

I keep reading both sides on this mural thing and it's really ticking me off that they're forgetting one (or several) crucial element of this whole thing: This mural is specifically made for a sky tube display, not for a wall poster. These are not just simple paper/posters, this is completely different material separated into three parts. Plus, there will possibility be light inside. If you wanted to make the characters standout and not get clashed with certain elements in the background, you would make certain edits to the background itself. And for a light being inside, ever tried a lamp with a different shade? It looks different when the light is on, right? Whatever colors their using for this sky tube, it's to make it so the light brings it to life.

I don't understand why no one talks about this. Unless I've missed it.

I'm no expert at this. Just observations I've been making. People are forgetting what this mural's purpose is for.

Edit: words

I can vouch for this. I had 2 jobs (as a freelancer I am) for this type of promotional strategy and I was annoyed to HELL by the person who hired me to change colors over and over again till they could work nicely with the light. It is definitely something that is done otherwise things might be lost and therefore kill what you're trying to show to the viewers. This also applies to other types of promo material that has light behind it, like at certain bus stops with posters that have light behind it so they can be watchable at night, those also go through inspection during WIP faces before having a final version for printing and such, of course there are testing versions that need to be printed prior.

 

[Xenigma]

Good point. What's the point of faking it if you don't want to gain publicity from it? This is definitely in favor of it being real, for now

Devil's advocate: maybe, despite thinking through seemingly everything else, they hadn't anticipated the potential legal issues of faking this leak and got spooked from going public after Marina's statement. Is it worth it to say "I did it" if the end result is lawsuits against you?

 

[?!?!?!]

Devil's advocate: maybe, despite thinking through seemingly everything else, they hadn't anticipated the potential legal issues of faking this leak and got spooked from going public after Marina's statement. Is it worth it to say "I did it" if the end result is lawsuits against you?

Potentially. But it's hard to believe that someone who has put together all of these layers of evidence and has apparently thought of most if not all ways to prevent debunking this leak wouldn't think beforehand about legal action against him, regardless of going public or not

The possibility is there for sure, it would just be pretty odd to me

 

[THE 6r]

BeatEmUps and Nintendo Life have both claimed to have insiders who say it's fake. Papa Geno has his insider saying Banjo is in. Spawn Wave said his insider said it was real but was missing baracat right?
What have other industry insiders been saying?

Suppose that insiders have been given false information. That may seem weird, but it's not unprecedented. Given the above statements, one of them must be wrong as they directly contradict each other. I don't think we can rely on insiders at this point because even they can't agree on whether this leak is real or not.

 

[KMDP]

I keep reading both sides on this mural thing and it's really ticking me off that they're forgetting one (or several) crucial element of this whole thing: This mural is specifically made for a sky tube display, not for a wall poster. These are not just simple paper/posters, this is completely different material separated into three parts. Plus, there will possibility be light inside. If you wanted to make the characters standout and not get clashed with certain elements in the background, you would make certain edits to the background itself. And for a light being inside, ever tried a lamp with a different shade? It looks different when the light is on, right? Whatever colors their using for this sky tube, it's to make it so the light brings it to life.

I don't understand why no one talks about this. Unless I've missed it.

I'm no expert at this. Just observations I've been making. People are forgetting what this mural's purpose is for.

Edit: words

Holy moly.

This is a very, very good point.

 

[THE 6r]

Holy moly.

This is a very, very good point.

Hence why I quoted it and broadcasted it in 7 other threads.

 

[Metocles]

I believe I said something similar earlier but, I wanted to follow up on it. First here is my original post. In the history of image/video leaks for the Super Smash Bros. series, every time when there is a fake made by an individual, the person responsible for the fake will step forward and claim that they are the one who made it (the only times this doesn't happen is when the leak is easily seen as a fake). Some examples: Palutena hoax, Rayman hoax (made by Artsy Omni) and the Dr. Mario Stage leak all had their creators come forward and reveal they made the fakes. These artists often tend to show their skills through these leaks and sometimes even provide a video of them making the leak.

Yet for this leak the image has such low quality, there is no point to stepping forward and taking credit. If someone stepped forward to reveal they made this fake leak there would be nothing to be proud of because the image quality is so bad. Previous fake leaks gave us images/videos that could fit the style of the game and are creations that Artsy Omni and others can be proud of. But this? This image isn't even able to show the artistic craftsmanship that was put into it. If the banner leak is fake, then I cannot help but wonder what the point of all of that trouble was.

Thanks for bringing this back up because I wanted to piggyback off of your points here a little bit. What has made me really examine and re-examine everything is asking the question: If this were done the easy way or the hard way, how would it look?

A fantastic example is what you bring up here. Why was the banner revealed the way it was? You have varying degrees of easy or hard explanations, but I think it boils down to this. The hard explanation would lead you down a direction where the individual taking the snapchat video is intentionally obfuscating what was seen by controlling it via not directly uploading the banner image to scrutinize but leaving enough there in order for people to discern the contents of the actual banner. Or the easy explanation... a guy working at his company whipped out his phone capturing footage at his work station goofing around or clearly angry at something. He uses Snapchat because it's a program that will delete the video automatically, but he didn't consider that someone might be able to capture some of the still images with their camera on the other end.

Why does this banner we see exist in the first place? An easy explanation is that it's the culmination of work between people who are used to putting together something like this. The game company sends over the assets and artwork to be used, the graphic design company mocks it up and uses Autocad to scale properly and the tools like the huge printing/cutting table to create the end product. Or we go the hard way and say that this is actually all the work of one individual. He created a background either from scratch or using old assets that he found from other smash murals. Using photoshop, he edits in 7 new individual pieces of art and moves around the rest of the nearly 70 assets. Once all that is complete, he then uses company property to mock up the armband/sky tube using Autocad and the printers available. At the end it all looks professionally done with little to no mistakes in presentation.

I mean play this game for yourself. I don't even have to go through the scenarios with you to think about what's the simplest way and hardest way to accomplish any one of these things. Why does his work desk and documents look so professional? Why would material for the Grinch be in the same location? How would the armband/sky tube get produced and where? Why do some of the 7 characters have such intricate detail going for them? Do I need to go on? There are probably other questions that popped in your head that you're curious about as well. Playing the hypothetical game is illuminating, especially when all of these questions are answered simultaneously.

I know we like to think that truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. We like to think that there's someone who is capable of hatching an overly elaborate scheme in all of this, but that's not even the stranger than fiction part of all of this. That award goes to somehow having the Grinch matter in the context of having the entire Smash roster being verified or not. In this situation, I'm just more willing to believe the human element in all of this; that someone just screwed up using their phone at work when they shouldn't. We probably all even know someone who is prone to doing something similar. The more you stack up harder situations, the more you're building an impressive and calculating resume of a man who can plan things out better than Bobby Fischer. The furthest I'm willing to go here is someone maybe at the same workplace that poses as him and takes a quick video of his workplace, maybe even using his phone that he might have left out for some reason. Anything beyond that is going Psycho Thriller territory.

 

[Whia]

I can vouch for this. I had 2 jobs (as a freelancer I am) for this type of promotional strategy and I was annoyed to HELL by the person who hired me to change colors over and over again till they could work nicely with the light. It is definitely something that is done otherwise things might be lost and therefore kill what you're trying to show to the viewers. This also applies to other types of promo material that has light behind it, like at certain bus stops with posters that have light behind it so they can be watchable at night, those also go through inspection during WIP faces before having a final version for printing and such, of course there are testing versions that need to be printed prior.

Question from a complete layman: I get having to re-colour images for lighting purposes, but would such a thing manifest in such minute detail changes as we see with the mural(s)? In that, what we see here isn't a matter of simply re-colouring, we see things like a singular missing cloud or tiny crystal formation missing/altered. As, again, a complete layman, it's hard for me to imagine things like that being of any real consequence.

 

[Teeb147]

You know what, count me in as a supporter.

I thought about it, and I'd like a sword fighter that can use magic.
He's also growing back a bit on me as a character, so there's that too

 

[Metocles]

Question from a complete layman: I get having to re-colour images for lighting purposes, but would such a thing manifest in such minute detail changes as we see with the mural(s)? In that, what we see here isn't a matter of simply re-colouring, we see things like a singular missing cloud or tiny crystal formation missing/altered. As, again, a complete layman, it's hard for me to imagine things like that being of any real consequence.

There was a user that came into this thread a few pages ago that actually is quite convincing with this. There's a way in photoshop to intentionally wash things out or blur things like you might expect that would happen in this case. Remember that the original source was a snapchat video; someone took a picture of that and the video was also capturing a printed out armband mural at an angle. There is going to be a lot of blur upon zooming in, obviously. He showed one of the quick examples that's pointed out with the two rivers and waterfalls fusing into one rather than just disappearing in the leak. When he used the blur, it had roughly the same effect. This is something that I kind of wonder if people like ArtsyOmni are even considering to a large extent?

I mean, they're artists so they'll typically like things to look pristine in their final pieces. This would throw me through a loop if I were an artist, for sure. You could analyze a picture to not looking graphically correct, but how does that pan out when you wipe Vaseline over everything and screw up the original picture beyond recognition. Regardless if they are actually correct in all of this, it feels like a piece of debunking that can't be standalone. If this entire leak consisted of one image uploaded online to a message board, then it would be much more damaging. Here, you need to build up the case much more than it currently is. There are bigger fish to fry, and I'm not even sure if the fish they're frying right now with this background stuff is good enough to considered complete as it is.

 

[Frosty Pops]

Honestly, I'm not that excited about any of the other leak characters. I've never played any of the games these characters are from other than Isaac and their likely playstyles don't draw me. My favorite franchises got passed over when it came to newcomers (Pokemon, Xenoblade) and my top choices weren't picked (Elma and Lycanroc).

That said, I'm happy overall because it's a well-rounded cast all around. While I'm not personally excited about 6/7, I know they're good picks together and make for an interesting roster. Heck, even Geno, a character I don't think deserves a spot over Isaac, is fine right now because he's coming alongside Isaac.

So what genre of games intest you? It seems like you have very specific taste.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

BeatEmUps and Nintendo Life have both claimed to have insiders who say it's fake. Papa Geno has his insider saying Banjo is in. Spawn Wave said his insider said it was real but was missing baracat right?
What have other industry insiders been saying?

Might as well go down the whole list. Billy if you're reading this and wanna make a video about the insiders and those in the know in reference to the leak, go ahead. This information took a LOT of time to compile.

Gamexplain. 3 of the 6 members of gamexplain have come out saying very confidently that it is fake. Derrik who just hate's leaks in any capacity, Jon who's proven to have industry connections made a bet saying that if the leak was real he'd sit in a dirty puddle (lol), and Andre who says there should be a pokemon. He got very angry about the leak thread on reset era later, comparing it to a trump rally. That got some backlash but since then he's remained silent on the matter.

Spawn Wave. He runs a gaming news channel with an emphasis on Nintendo. He has some mutual's who are in the know. He personally doesn't believe it. On account of Incinroar's absence, and Geno and Banjo's presence. He agree's heavily with Andre seemingly, and commented that the reset era thread would be a thing of beauty before long.

Roger's base. He runs a One Piece and Nintendo hybrid channel. He's friends with several of these people and he was a known supporter of the ESRB leak when it originally hit. This time he is taking the stance of team fake. He's not an insider by any stretch, but given that connection to gamexplain it's not a stretch to say that they told him Incinroar is in.

Liam Roberston. a reporter who has a TON of connections say's that it's fake due to his own sources. However, he has acknowledged the possibility of the rumors he has heard being false, as it has happened in the past. He said he'd willingly take the L if he was wrong, as he put it. He personally theorizes that someone had assets from the leakers previous work place were used to create the leak. He has been very defensive about his stance on it being fake, and call's most of the counter arguments straw grasping.

NGameTheCube. He's not an insider but he is also very well researched, he runs a youtube channel covering Nintendo and leaks. He has predicted a lot of the characters, like Ridley a day or two before the reveal with confidence. He has been very vocal about his support of the leak, and how he thinks it's completely true on every level. He's known for perpetuating the idea of Steve being playable this time around, which came from some leakers.

Spooky Mystic. This is a known leaker who primarily operates within the Kingdom Hearts and Persona communities. He made the claim that the leak is real yesterday. But today further clarified that he had been approached by a ton of people saying with absolute certainty that Incinroar is in. He said that something strange was going on, that smash leaks are uncharted territory for many, and that all the insiders are on different levels of knowledge with tons and tons of conflicting reports. He also said t one newcomer trailer was gonna happen, and that it would contain two characters. And ended off by saying he wasn't going to touch smash again.

Alex/Nintendo Life. Nintendo life is a news website with tons of connections. They produce reviews too. Alex is the face of the youtube channel. He made a video on the leak saying that it was fake. Saying that it was a bit too wish-list like and so on. I myself actually contacted him as he mentioned sources at the end of his video. He told me that he wasn't willing to give out sources (obviously) but stated that said source has never been wrong in the past.

Artsi Omni. He's again, not an insider. But he's a very infamous fake leaker at one point himself. And he's got some background in game development, and is also friends with Gamexplain. He seems to think it's fake, on account of differences in battlefield. But has remained neutral on the whole thing throughout.

Vergeben. The currently most infamous smash leaker or insider. He said that it's fake on account of not having Incinroar. Making a meme joke about Incinroar on life support and posting it on Gamefaqs. He got extremely angry when people made the suggestion that Banjo and Isaac were not in, telling them that just because this leak was in his opinion fake, doesn't mean that Isaac and Banjo and whoever else aren't in.

Leaky Pandy. This is a twitter account that posts rumors and information regarding upcoming games and the like. They've bowed out of smash leaks and have built a bit of a rep for being unreliable. They've gotten direct dates right in the past but missed the content within them. Anyways, they didn't want to comment on the banner leak, but when Liam Roberston confirmed that the leak's person was in fact a real guy who worked at a real print shop, they simply wrote "RIP" They then retweeted Push Dustin's posting of the translation of Marina's statement. They then later commented on the toxicity surrounding the discussion that Andre alluded too.

Stealth_. This is a pretty popular twitter user and he does market research. He's been a guest on various podcasts in the past as well. He's not really an insider, but he's alluded to thing in the past that turned out legitimate. For instance, he firmly believed that a new DK character would be present in the game, and some time late reply we got K rool. He firmly believes that the leak is fake, saying that some nintendo employees must have had a laugh. After that though when the sprout item was identified as potentially from golden sun, he cast out support for Isaac, an action that he has taken several times in the past.

Ryan Brown. This is another reporter. He's fairly close friends with people like Laura Kate Dale, another infamous leaker who was behind the magnum opus that was the switch leaks. He commented that Genuine leaks have happened in the past and that they aren't out of the realm of possibility. He personally wants the leak to be true on account of being a mach rider supporter.

Nintendo Voice Chat. This is a podcast hosted on IGN. Gamexplain has been on with them before. Being associated with IGN it's fair to say that they'd be in the know. That having been said, they've seemingly cast support in favor of the leak, discussing it positively in episode 430 of their show.

[Update 1]
Papa Genos. This guy is a smash leak youtuber. He originally created his channel in support of Mach Rider, which is a character that he felt was severely underestimated. He has made videos covering various 4chan text leaks and image leaks leading up to this point. He claims to have a source, and this source has a source from within Microsoft. And said Microsoft source was aware of Banjo, all the characters currently on the banner, in combination with Incinroar. Because of Incinroar's absence this source is very confused at the current time. I contacted Papa Geno's personally on discord to ask about the nature of the source. He stated that he obviously wasn't willing to give up the source, but that they came to him, and that if I were to know the source i'd probably believe him. He currently presents the theory that either A, Incinroar is DLC, B, Incinroar is leak bait, or C, the leaked banner itself is leak bait. He firmly believes that this leak isn't fabricated due to his source, and that it has to have come from somewhere official. Regardless of it's true nature.

[Update 2]
Emily Rogers. Emily Rogers is a ridiculously promintnet Nintendo’s leaker with a very strong track record. For instance, she leaked many years in advanced that breath of the wild (then called Zelda U) would be the biggest Nintendo video game of all time. She did comment prior to E3 that smash switch’s roster would be “unbelievably amazing” however, After the switch leaks, she bowed out of the leak game for the most part. She replied to Nintendo’s everything article on the initial grinch leak, stating “I wouldn’t buy what that grinch leak Is selling” I reached out for comment in a reply, if she reply’s or adds anything, I will amend further. It’s unclear if she thinks the leak is fake based on sources, or if it’s her personal take away.

[Update 3]
BeatEmUps. BeatEmUps is a video game channel that does reviews and news. With a specific highlight on nintendo and the switch. With the exception of gamexplain, they are the biggest youtube channel on the list. They claim to be in contact with sources indicating that the leak is fake. He specifically highlighted Geno as being to much in terms of fan service. He pointed out how many leakers that are in the know who are familiar with "Everything Nintendo" as he put it, all are saying that it's most likely fake.

A very diverse range of opinions are represented. And if I misrepresented anyone, or wrote something in an awkward fashion, i'll amend my post as needed. The common theme here is that people think it's fake on account of Incinroar's absence. Or think it's real on account of surrounding evidence. It's a mess, to say the least. I'm not sure what to think. I've only managed to keep tabs on all of these various people and sources at once just on account of surfing the whole damn internet at once the day this leak hit.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

There are now OCs of Grinch as the hero and a deformed version of Steve from Minecraft as the villain. I can't breath.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Might as well go down the whole list. Billy if you're reading this and wanna make a video about the insiders and those in the know in reference to the leak, go ahead. This information took a LOT of time to compile.

Gamexplain. 3 of the 6 members of gamexplain have come out saying very confidently that it is fake. Derrik who just hate's leaks in any capacity, Jon who's proven to have industry connections made a bet saying that if the leak was real he'd sit in a dirty puddle (lol), and Andre who says there should be a pokemon. He got very angry about the leak thread on reset era later, comparing it to a trump rally. That got some backlash but since then he's remained silent on the matter.

Spawn Wave. He runs a nintendo news channel. He has some mutual's who are in the know. He personally doesn't believe it. On account of Incinroar's absence, and Geno and Banjo's presence. He agree's heavily with Andre seemingly, and commented that the reset era thread would be a thing of beauty before long.

Roger's base. He runs a One Piece and Nintendo hybrid channel. He's friends with several of these people and he was a known supporter of the ESRB leak when it originally hit. This time he is taking the stance of team fake. He's not an insider by any stretch, but given that connection to gamexplain it's not a stretch to say that they told him Incinroar is in.

Liam Roberston. a reporter who has a TON of connections say's that it's fake due to his own sources. However, he has acknowledged the possibility of the rumors he has heard being false, as it has happened in the past. He said he'd willingly take the L if he was wrong, as he put it. He personally theorizes that someone had assets from the leakers previous work place were used to create the leak. He has been very defensive about his stance on it being fake, and call's most of the counter arguments straw grasping.

NGameTheCube. He's not an insider but he is also very well researched, he runs a youtube channel covering Nintendo and leaks, and has predicted a lot of the characters, like Ridley a day or two before the reveal with confidence has been very vocal about his support of the leak, and how he thinks it's completely true on every level. He's known for perpetuating the idea of Steve being playable this time around, which came from some leakers.

Spooky Mystic. This is a known leaker who primarily operates within the Kingdom Hearts and Persona communities. He made the claim that the leak is real yesterday. But today further clarified that he had been approached by a ton of people saying with absolute certainty that Incinroar is in. He said that something strange was going on, that smash leaks are uncharted territory for many, and that all the insiders are on different levels of knowledge with tons and tons of conflicting reports. He also said t one newcomer trailer was gonna happen, and that it would contain two characters. And ended off by saying he wasn't going to touch smash again.

Alex/Nintendo Life. Nintendo life is a news website with tons of connections. They produce reviews too. Alex is the face of the youtube channel. He made a video on the leak saying that it was fake. Saying that it was a bit too wish-list like and so on. I myself actually contacted him as he mentioned sources at the end of his video. He told me that he wasn't willing to give out sources (obviously) but stated that said source has never been wrong in the past.

Artsi Omni. He's again, not an insider. But he's a very infamous fake leaker at one point himself. And he's got some background in game development, and is also friends with Gamexplain. He seems to think it's fake, on account of differences in battlefield. But has remained neutral on the whole thing throughout.

Vergeben. The currently most infamous smash leaker or insider. He said that it's fake on account of not having Incinroar. Making a meme joke about Incinroar on life support and posting it on Gamefaqs. He got extremely angry when people made the suggestion that Banjo and Isaac were not in, telling them that just because this leak was in his opinion fake, doesn't mean that Isaac and Banjo and whoever else aren't in.

Leaky Pandy. This is a twitter account that posts rumors and information regarding upcoming games and the like. They've bowed out of smash leaks and have built a bit of a rep for being unreliable. They've gotten direct dates right in the past but missed the content within them. Anyways, they didn't want to comment on the banner leak, but when Liam Roberston confirmed that the leak's person was in fact a real guy who worked at a real print shop, they simply wrote "RIP" They then retweeted Push Dustin's posting of the translation of Marina's statement. They then later commented on the toxicity surrounding the discussion that Andre alluded too.

Stealth_. This is a pretty popular twitter user and he does market research. He's been a guest on various podcasts in the past as well. He's not really an insider, but he's alluded to thing in the past that turned out legitimate. For instance, he firmly believed that a new DK character would be present in the game, even after vergeben said there wouldn't. He firmly believes that the leak is fake, saying that some nintendo employees must have had a laugh. After that though when the sprout item was identified as potentially from golden sun, he cast out support for Isaac, an action that he has taken several times in the past.

Ryan Brown. This is another reporter. He's fairly close friends with people like Laura Kate Dale, another infamous leaker who was behind the magnum opus that was the switch leaks. He commented that Genuine leaks have happened in the past and that they aren't out of the realm of possibility. He personally wants the leak to be true on account of being a mach rider supporter.

Nintendo Voice Chat. This is a podcast hosted on IGN. Gamexplain has been on with them before. Being associated with IGN it's fair to say that they'd be in the know. That having been said, they've seemingly cast support in favor of the leak, discussing it positively in episode 430 of their show.

A very diverse range of opinions are represented. And if I misrepresented anyone, or wrote something in an awkward fashion, i'll amend my post as needed. The common theme here is that people think it's fake on account of Incinroar's absence. Or think it's real on account of surrounding evidence. It's a mess, to say the least. I'm not sure what to think. I've only managed to keep tabs on all of these various locations at once just on account of surfing the whole damn internet at once the day this leak hit.

I love the effort put into compiling this, there is something definitely weird going on behind the scenes. I personally think it has more going for it than against but it's important to consider both sides. All I could think of for you adding anything is PapaGenos and his source which is interesting to me

 

[RingJ5]

Might as well go down the whole list. Billy if you're reading this and wanna make a video about the insiders and those in the know in reference to the leak, go ahead. This information took a LOT of time to compile.

Gamexplain. 3 of the 6 members of gamexplain have come out saying very confidently that it is fake. Derrik who just hate's leaks in any capacity, Jon who's proven to have industry connections made a bet saying that if the leak was real he'd sit in a dirty puddle (lol), and Andre who says there should be a pokemon. He got very angry about the leak thread on reset era later, comparing it to a trump rally. That got some backlash but since then he's remained silent on the matter.

Okay, disregarding all attached politics and speaking objectively, I can't help but think that comparing leak supporters to a group that was disregarded and predicted to lose by nearly all major publications yet succeeded anyway in the end is not a good look if he's trying to get more people on his side.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

I love the effort put into compiling this, there is something definitely weird going on behind the scenes. I personally think it has more going for it than against but it's important to consider both sides. All I could think of for you adding anything is PapaGenos and his source which is interesting to me

I updated to include Papa Genos. That was a fairly easy inclusion on account of me having actually personally chatted with the guy on Discord. And I saved the message. If anyone has anyone else they think should be added to my compilation, go ahead. I'll need to see posts with their stances however. I'm trying to keep this as accurate as possible as I really want to avoid misrepresentation, and I feared clicking that Post Reply button, as even after hours and hours of research, and compiling it all in one spot, I still feared I got something wrong somewhere.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If the leak turns out to be fake and we end up just getting Incineroar, it’s going to be the most hated newcomer ever.

 

[RingJ5]

I updated to include Papa Genos. That was a fairly easy inclusion on account of me having actually personally chatted with the guy on Discord. And I saved the message. If anyone has anyone else they think should be added to my compilation, go ahead. I'll need to see posts with their stances however. I'm trying to keep this as accurate as possible as I really want to avoid misrepresentation, and I feared clicking that Post Reply button, as even after hours and hours of research, and compiling it all in one spot, I still feared I got something wrong somewhere.

His new video has a bit more info. It's really long, but here's a summary.

 

[TappyBat]

If the leak turns out to be fake and we end up just getting Incineroar, it’s going to be the most hated newcomer ever.

Indeed

 

[Lonodel]

Indeed

I hope inceneroar gets a Grinch alt at least

 

[NessAtc.]

So I've been looking real close at Roy in particular, to see if any odd changes to him would lead to anything, since he is among the most covered characters at the moment.

If you'll notice, Roy's pauldrons and his cape are rather... blue. This change doesn't make sense for such an otherwise intricate leak, but we can easily chalk that up to the saturation.

This Cloud image is the proof you need for that. If you'll notice, his clothes are very distinctly purple, but on his chest, you can see a distinct bit of blue. This is where his clothes are shaded.

So, in conclusion, if the saturation here is enough to make much of Roy's upper body blue, and turn Cloud's chest blue, imagine what it could do to similar shades of purple.

As a side note, this probably means the Isaac in the leak will also be a lot less bluer in the final mural.

 

[Xenigma]

A quick aside on Incineroar: I've long been pretty unhappy about their potential inclusion as it felt like an underwhelming choice when characters like Isaac, Geno and B&K are still left out. With the Grinch roster, though? Hell yeah, give me Incineroar as that first DLC character or whatever. I used to be all for Blaziken as a potential fighter (very happy Pokken fulfilled that fantasy, plus Gardevoir!) and I'd love to give the fiery wrestler a spin in a world where Incineroar is in alongside those ballot picks, not instead of.

 

[VexTheHex]

If the leak turns out to be fake and we end up just getting Incineroar, it’s going to be the most hated newcomer ever.

It sadly has been a pretty awful time for the cat and his supporters.

Pre-Everyone Is Here - Anybody not Decidueye is a dumb choice, it's obviously Decidueye.

Then there a brief time between this and Verge where people were trying to take sides, then Verge shot down 3 of these and one got Pokeball'd. Things were a bit tense with people trying to decide which and if one would make it now that the ruling king had fallen from his speculation perch.

But then the "Ken and Incineroar" came alongside Box and Music Theory lining up with Sakurai saying few newcomers and people got savage with Incineroar. The hate was in multiple threads including this one at multiple time. Even reading the Kat & Ana thread had some people dissing the cat. Somehow all this was fine cause hivemind is alright even when spewing hate. Leaks are terrible, Incineroar is terrible!

Now we have a new leak that shuts down the cat and supports others and people praise leakers even when the leaker legit is doing it to spite Nintendo and is giving the middle finger basically. And now fanart showing Incineroar and Steve dying and the such is popping up.

While I was Team Mimikyu for awhile, I think Incineroar could be pretty cool to and supported him (or Guzma with Golisopod) to only realize I went to a pick that the whole board and fandom is cool with hating and mocking. Kind of disgusting.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I really can't imagine the banner leak being leak bait.

I mean who's bright idea would it be to hype people up to such ferverous levels and then turn around with a different set of characters people don't care about. I mean presumably they want to protect the hype by creating leak baits, not kill it entirely.

I feel like Incineroar is more likely leak bait, since there are already loads of people who can't fathom the thought of no pokemon rep so they won't take much to be convinced.

 

[jweb23]

A quick aside on Incineroar: I've long been pretty unhappy about their potential inclusion as it felt like an underwhelming choice when characters like Isaac, Geno and B&K are still left out. With the Grinch roster, though? Hell yeah, give me Incineroar as that first DLC character or whatever. I used to be all for Blaziken as a potential fighter (very happy Pokken fulfilled that fantasy, plus Gardevoir!) and I'd love to give the fiery wrestler a spin in a world where Incineroar is in alongside those ballot picks, not instead of.

I’ve talked about it before up here but again I’m not against any videogame character being added to Smash especially if Isaac gets in. My only issue with Incineroar (even as a big Pokémon fan) is that everyone can see Ultimate’s current lineup of newcomers and echoes come from the ballot. We even have exit poll data to further back those assumptions. However Incineroar didn’t exist publicly during the votes and we all know for a fact that fans voted for other Pokémon such as Sceptile. So Incineroar doesn’t feel right to me to be added. I still think he would be a fun character to use but it will never sit right with me for this game especially since we got 3 returning Pokémon veterans too, so they could have took a break from adding another Pokémon.

 

[VexTheHex]

I’ve talked about it before up here but again I’m not against any videogame character being added to Smash especially if Isaac gets in. My only issue with Incineroar (even as a big Pokémon fan) is that everyone can see Ultimate’s current lineup of newcomers and echoes come from the ballot. We even have exit poll data to further back those assumptions. However Incineroar didn’t exist publicly during the votes and we all know for a fact that fans voted for other Pokémon such as Sceptile. So Incineroar doesn’t feel right to me to be added. I still think he would be a fun character to use but it will never sit right with me for this game especially since we got 3 returning Pokémon veterans too, so they could have took a break from adding another Pokémon.

Thing is that'd hurt Rex, Elma, and Spring Man quite a bit as well. All three have developed following for Smash already, so I'm not sure how smart it is to ignore the current stars. This may be their only shot.

As for Pokemon, I personally would of not taken Pichu, Ivysaur, and Squirtle if it meant we got a Gen 3 and Gen 7. Or even not getting Pichu and getting a Gardevoir echo or clone of Mewtwo. As I'm sure Young Link returning doesn't satisfy LoZ fans either, some characters probably should of been left gone since them returning didn't do much for the fans if the very popular and active series just got back unpopular melee clones as their main addition.

 

[jweb23]

Thing is that'd hurt Rex, Elma, and Spring Man quite a bit as well. All three have developed following for Smash already, so I'm not sure how smart it is to ignore the current stars. This may be their only shot.

As for Pokemon, I personally would of not taken Pichu, Ivysaur, and Squirtle if it meant we got a Gen 3 and Gen 7. Or even not getting Pichu and getting a Gardevoir echo or clone of Mewtwo. As I'm sure Young Link returning doesn't satisfy LoZ fans either, some characters probably should of been left gone since them returning didn't do much for the fans if the very popular and active series just got back unpopular melee clones as their main addition.

It doesn’t hurt those characters at all because DLC is a thing. Plus Ultimate ended planning at the end of 2015 when Rex and Springman weren’t anything at that time. Also, exit poll data shows that all the Smash veterans got a significant amount of votes to return. Even Pichu and Young Link so it makes a lot of sense for them to be back since Ultimate was using the ballot as a reference for playable characters.

 

[Tyrathius]

Thing is that'd hurt Rex, Elma, and Spring Man quite a bit as well. All three have developed following for Smash already, so I'm not sure how smart it is to ignore the current stars. This may be their only shot.

As for Pokemon, I personally would of not taken Pichu, Ivysaur, and Squirtle if it meant we got a Gen 3 and Gen 7. Or even not getting Pichu and getting a Gardevoir echo or clone of Mewtwo. As I'm sure Young Link returning doesn't satisfy LoZ fans either, some characters probably should of been left gone since them returning didn't do much for the fans if the very popular and active series just got back unpopular melee clones as their main addition.

To be honest I'm not convinced either Springman or Rex will happen. Splatoon was vastly more successful than either Xenoblade or ARMS, but it still had to wait for a sequel rather than getting a character in SSB4 DLC. And I think the fact that Corrin (who's game wasn't even out in the west when he debuted in Smash) was chosen as an advertisement rep rather than someone like Elma implies they want brand new characters, not ones who's games are a year or two old.

 

[KingZing]

Actually I would like to believe it is true. It has alot of validation as well as some fairly solid arguments against it. So therefore no one can say with 100% certainty "yes it is real" or "no it is fake" So what you are trying to say is when I go to order an ice cream cone I can only get chocolate or vanilla, that I am unable to get chocolate vanilla swirl because then I am only getting vanilla? I figured using simple terms would help you see how much sense your statement makes.

I'm not talking about choices, this is a tangible thing you may or may not believe in just by judging it yourself (unlike the existence of God, for example). Your ice cone example doesn't apply to this, as in this case one side negates the other. It's not that you can believe and not believe in something at the same time, while you can of course have both chocolate and vanilla in your ice cream.

If I say 'I believe' is because what I have seen has convinced me and therefore I can't go back and say I don't. Even if it ends up being debunked that doesn't change the fact that I believed in it. If someone says 'I'm on the fence' that means they aren't fully convinced with some aspect of it, therefore they directly don't believe, otherwise they simply would. There's no middle ground. Clearer now??

Anyways... morning, Adepts! How's the leak holding up today?!

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

It sadly has been a pretty awful time for the cat and his supporters.

Pre-Everyone Is Here - Anybody not Decidueye is a dumb choice, it's obviously Decidueye.

Then there a brief time between this and Verge where people were trying to take sides, then Verge shot down 3 of these and one got Pokeball'd. Things were a bit tense with people trying to decide which and if one would make it now that the ruling king had fallen from his speculation perch.

But then the "Ken and Incineroar" came alongside Box and Music Theory lining up with Sakurai saying few newcomers and people got savage with Incineroar. The hate was in multiple threads including this one at multiple time. Even reading the Kat & Ana thread had some people dissing the cat. Somehow all this was fine cause hivemind is alright even when spewing hate. Leaks are terrible, Incineroar is terrible!

Now we have a new leak that shuts down the cat and supports others and people praise leakers even when the leaker legit is doing it to spite Nintendo and is giving the middle finger basically. And now fanart showing Incineroar and Steve dying and the such is popping up.

While I was Team Mimikyu for awhile, I think Incineroar could be pretty cool to and supported him (or Guzma with Golisopod) to only realize I went to a pick that the whole board and fandom is cool with hating and mocking. Kind of disgusting.

Allow me to speak for the Isaac community for a sec by saying that while many here are staunchly anti incinroar, it doesn’t come from a place of genuine malice towards the character, or his supporters. Isaac is a character very similar to Ridley, and K rool. We’ve come accustomed to near constant disappointment for the last decade. So when smash ultimate shows the world that Sakurai is at long last listening to the fandom, but that’s immidately followed by a boring theory that totally shuts down speculation and makes it boring for nearly everyone involved, people are going to get angry. This is Isaac’s first legit shot since Brawl. 10 long years, since that last chance... many among us have gone from literally children to adults in that time frame. So when we get angry at the prospects of another fire starter Pokémon from a very recent game gets in, it starts to feel like we’re being ignored. Like our say doesn’t matter, when it’s already been prove in that in the case of Ridley and K rool, IT DOES. We don’t all hate Incinroar. We just hate Incinroar being a priority over Isaac or other fan favorites.

Anyways. I speak for myself personally when I say that I would support this leak begin real whether Isaac was in it or not. Given how well it’s held on despite all the critisim from literally every angle, I’d be foolish To bet aginst it. I played this game 4 years ago, And im not gonna do that again. In the ESRB leak Shulk was in, my most wanted at the time. Who wasn’t? Isaac, mewtwo, Roy, Bayonetta, And shadow who had been deconfirmed. Literally 1 of my top 6. That’s a horrible turn out for the base game. I had every right to stand against it emotionally. This leak is the same. 1 of my top 6 again, am I disappointed by such an abysmal turnout for my most wanted list? Yes. Very much so. Do I still want Rex, Crash, KOSMOS, Elma, and Dixie? Yes. But I’m not allowing that disappointment to cloud my vision and stance on the leak. I am team real, in reluctance.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

*Yaaawn~*

Anything happenin' out here when I was gone?

I can top it. Late mind you. But better dank than never.

View attachment 172401

Hmmrrhm.

You win this round.

 

[Takasmash]

Im on board the Isaac Hype Train.

 

[ZelDan]

Personally, I don't hate Incineroar at all, and I'm overall indifferent to the cat. I don't dislike the idea of it being in Smash, I would just dislike the idea of it being the ONLY newcomer left, along with Ken.

If we get Incineroar along with the 7 Grinch leak characters or as DLC afterwards, I would be absolutely okay with that.

 

[Billybae10K]

I've already mentioned many times, Incineroar simply isn't my first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc choice for a newcomer from a personal perspective. And given speculation prior to the Grinch Leak was drifting towards Incineroar, Ken and a SE rep at the time, that honestly felt like the most depressing line-up for me in terms of final reveals, when we had Ridley, K Rool, Simon Belmont, etc out of the gate.

Incineroar's got his fans, good on them, no ill will towards em, but I can't personally find enjoyment in the character myself. Though to be fair, that also stems from my distinct hatred of fire starters in Pokemon since I find them to be the least interesting most of the time (I'm more of a Water/Grass starter person myself).

 

[jweb23]

I've already mentioned many times, Incineroar simply isn't my first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc choice for a newcomer from a personal perspective. And given speculation prior to the Grinch Leak was drifting towards Incineroar, Ken and a SE rep at the time, that honestly felt like the most depressing line-up for me in terms of final reveals, when we had Ridley, K Rool, Simon Belmont, etc out of the gate.

Incineroar's got his fans, good on them, no ill will towards em, but I can't personally find enjoyment in the character myself. Though to be fair, that also stems from my distinct hatred of fire starters in Pokemon since I find them to be the least interesting most of the time (I'm more of a Water/Grass starter person myself).

100% agree!
Also, power to the Water starters! Lol. I will always love Blaziken though.

 

[AlliwantisIsaac]

Allow me to speak for the Isaac community for a sec by saying that while many here are staunchly anti incinroar, it doesn’t come from a place of genuine malice towards the character, or his supporters. Isaac is a character very similar to Ridley, and K rool. We’ve come accustomed to near constant disappointment for the last decade. So when smash ultimate shows the world that Sakurai is at long last listening to the fandom, but that’s immidately followed by a boring theory that totally shuts down speculation and makes it boring for nearly everyone involved, people are going to get angry. This is Isaac’s first legit shot since Brawl. 10 long years, since that last chance... many among us have gone from literally children to adults in that time frame. So when we get angry at the prospects of another fire starter Pokémon from a very recent game gets in, it starts to feel like we’re being ignored. Like our say doesn’t matter, when it’s already been prove in that in the case of Ridley and K rool, IT DOES. We don’t all hate Incinroar. We just hate Incinroar being a priority over Isaac or other fan favorites.

Anyways. I speak for myself personally when I say that I would support this leak begin real whether Isaac was in it or not. Given how well it’s held on despite all the critisim from literally every angle, I’d be foolish To bet aginst it. I played this game 4 years ago, And im not gonna do that again. In the ESRB leak Shulk was in, my most wanted at the time. Who wasn’t? Isaac, mewtwo, Roy, Bayonetta, And shadow who had been deconfirmed. Literally 1 of my top 6. That’s a horrible turn out for the base game. I had every right to stand against it emotionally. This leak is the same. 1 of my top 6 again, am I disappointed by such an abysmal turnout for my most wanted list? Yes. Very much so. Do I still want Rex, Crash, KOSMOS, Elma, and Dixie? Yes. But I’m not allowing that disappointment to cloud my vision and stance on the leak. I am team real, in reluctance.

Couldn't agree more

 

[JaidynReiman]

I've already mentioned many times, Incineroar simply isn't my first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc choice for a newcomer from a personal perspective. And given speculation prior to the Grinch Leak was drifting towards Incineroar, Ken and a SE rep at the time, that honestly felt like the most depressing line-up for me in terms of final reveals, when we had Ridley, K Rool, Simon Belmont, etc out of the gate.

Incineroar's got his fans, good on them, no ill will towards em, but I can't personally find enjoyment in the character myself. Though to be fair, that also stems from my distinct hatred of fire starters in Pokemon since I find them to be the least interesting most of the time (I'm more of a Water/Grass starter person myself).

I've never been big on Pokemon in general. But Incineroar never interested me because he just looks so dumb. Litten I wouldn't mind because its just so adorable, but Incineroar? Eh...


I really like the idea of a moveset based entirely around archery, though. I've actually been interested in Decidueye despite not really caring much about Pokemon. Granted, Greninja looked cool to me then I tried him a couple times and never touched him again.