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Generally speaking as of now is Smash 4 or Melee more popular with the tournament scene

MegaFatcat100

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Just wondering, since I like both games and I suck at one and is competent on the other (bet you can guess who ones). So yeah, just curious, what do you guys think?
 

IoSSBM

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I would Smash 4, because if you look at Evo 2015 (the largest tourney as of this post) Smash 4 had a larger prize pot and bracket size then Melee, although they are mostly even. My guess is, that in a couple years, that could change dramatically, as Brawl had some large tourneys right after their release, and now Brawl is much smaller and is trying to stay alive.
 

Bijan

The 5-0er
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Melee by far. Melee was actually much larger than Smash 4 last year and Smash 4 is a brand new game and if you compare it with Brawl they have the same thing where people try to make it competitive when it first releases but then realize in just a couple years that this game has no relatively competitive foundation. Melee is quickly evolving into one of the largest esports and the community is still growing. Melee truly is one of the greatest competitive games of all time. And without the game Melee became no one would honestly even give a **** about competitive Smash 4.
 
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Bijan

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And I'm not trying to hate on Smash 4 either. It is actually quite fun. But to say it is of the same caliber as Melee is a sin.
 

HeavenStar

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I'd say that Melee is more popular right now, but Smash 4 is catching up. In two more years, it'll likely eclipse its predecessor.
 

Spak

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I'd say that Melee is more popular right now, but Smash 4 is catching up. In two more years, it'll likely eclipse its predecessor.
I don't know about Sm4sh catching up that fast. I feel like popularity will level out quickly and possibly start to go down a bit after the last patches go out, but time will tell if Sm4sh is a trend or if it's here to stay.
 
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BeyondBDS

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Sm4sh is probably going through a bit of what Brawl did: initial explosion, but then a fade to obscurity. However, I don't think the decline will be as violent or sudden as it was for Brawl.
 

NightmareViperSlash

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I would say Melee, since it continues to increase in popularity in competitive. Smash 4 is pretty good though, it might get really big if Sakurai continues to work on it.
 

Denjinpachi

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Smash 4 will decline. Not die, like a lot of other melee players like to joke about, but it will definitely hit a decline. Melee will either see a slight growth, then level off, or stay as good as it is now. Either way, both will have sizable enough communities to last for at least the next 2 years.
 

Emojination

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Sm4sh doesn't have as many big personalities that people like to watch imo, that hurts it's popularity as a spectator game.
 

Xavix

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Melee seems to win over spctators, but Sm4sh wins in entrants due to its freshness as a game, as many characters still haven't been "fully developed" today. Additionally, finding a copy of Melee and setups are increasingly hard to find, whereas Sm4sh is readily available to anyone with a WiiU.
Smash 4 will decline. Not die, like a lot of other melee players like to joke about, but it will definitely hit a decline. Melee will either see a slight growth, then level off, or stay as good as it is now. Either way, both will have sizable enough communities to last for at least the next 2 years.
I honestly don't see this. Melee seems to have but somewhat of a blindfold on the community and how to treat future installments in the franchise just because they "aren't melee". If anything, Sm4sh will see a massive growth as it gains new players regurlarly, and many new names have been entering the scene recently. Not to say that Melee is bad or that it should "die", but that it shouldn't be the only outlet for competitive smash.
 

Denjinpachi

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Melee seems to win over spctators, but Sm4sh wins in entrants due to its freshness as a game, as many characters still haven't been "fully developed" today. Additionally, finding a copy of Melee and setups are increasingly hard to find, whereas Sm4sh is readily available to anyone with a WiiU.

I honestly don't see this. Melee seems to have but somewhat of a blindfold on the community and how to treat future installments in the franchise just because they "aren't melee". If anything, Sm4sh will see a massive growth as it gains new players regurlarly, and many new names have been entering the scene recently. Not to say that Melee is bad or that it should "die", but that it shouldn't be the only outlet for competitive smash.
That is true to a point, but the game has new players joining, because of the fact that its a newer game. Realistically, in the same regard, Melee gets new players fairly often as well, even as it is an older title. But, a game can only really be new for so long. Smash 4 serves the purpose of being available on a new platform, and brings familiar faces to a game from familiar franchises. It, if anything at all, would only survive on the fact that its familiarity with brawl's mechanics, now limited balance adjustments, DLC, and its accessibility to virtually anyone. I talk about its familiarity with brawl because its pace is only really comparable to brawl, its lack of L-cancelling or "smooth landing," and its relevance as a current title on the market in general at this point in time. That doesn't mean its bad, but if its traits are so similar to a title that came before it, then I'm more compelled to believe that it will follow its predecessors trend as well. But, I still think that it will have it's own decently sized community after its settled for a few years. I just believe its size will probably decrease when that time comes.

And as far as a "blindfold" on the community, that's a little excessive. There are definitely die hard melee fans that won't touch the game, but just as their opinions belong to them, yours will belong to you. Someone that doesn't play the game you do, can't stop you from seeing what you like or foresee for your own game. That'd be a little bit more of a wavering belief in a game due to it being opposed with an opinion that isn't the same as the people who play it. If I said "Don't play smash 4, it's not Melee," people would look at me as if I was nuts, then go back to doing whatever they wanted. If it's meant to be, then that's better for the community as a whole. While I may not be a participant of competitive smash 4, ill always support the community as a whole, and ill hold my opinions for as to why I do or don't like something for those who wanna hear it. But realistically, in my own opinion, I see Smash 4 going in the way I mentioned because of its noted similarities of brawl, and of its dependency of balance adjustments, and new content. Sort of how I thought PM was going to go before the dev team split.

But, using PM as an example, its community is now building around a static build of the game, and will therefore be faced with developing its meta like 64 and melee did before it. It, also, must now stand where it is to either maintain its community size, or try to increase it. Smash 4 will come to face this in about a year or so, when all of the adjustments are done being made on the game, and people have to stick with what they have.

So, to wrap it up, Melee most certainly isn't the "only" outlet for competitive smash brothers, and it never will be. I think that you may have assumed it would be the biggest, and most consistent, which recently it has been, but that doesn't mean that will never change. In all fairness what that community has gone through in about a decade and a half, took a lot of work and a lot of dedication to it. You can't rush that kind of result with anything, even if its new. CoD built itself on a legacy of a strong FPS series, Halo for Third Person Shooters, League of Legends and DOTA for the MOBA markets, and so on and so forth. There will always be competition, but you shouldn't compete with your own series' legacy of success from a different installment, as much as you should build on what part of it means the most to you. That's the challenge other Smash games will be faces with.
 

Denjinpachi

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Sm4sh doesn't have as many big personalities that people like to watch imo, that hurts it's popularity as a spectator game.
I kind of agree with this, but I also kind of don't. The game definitely has a wide variety of notable personalities, but if you aren't too familiar with the scene, then you may not really know them personally. A lot of big names off the top of my head (as a spectator, I don't participate in smash 4 as a competitor) ZeRo, Mew2King, Ally, ESAM, Nairo, and Anti. I don't even play the game, and I realize those names. But when I sit down and watch a set with these players involved, I even find myself liking what I see. They play it in a way that's different from the general population of standard players. It's good, and we can only hope more names come with more upsets with Genesis 3 being this weekend.
 

ZafKiel

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It's still Melee. By popular, I thinking who has more spectators and entrants. SSB4 has been around for sometime now but it doesn't have a status anywhere near Melee. Melee is over a decade old yet more and more people are attending tournaments and entering the scene. The Melee scene has survived this long and I believe it's going to stay for sometime. I believe SSB4 is definitely on the road to attaining a status similar to Melee however. I still enjoy spectating and playing both games.
 

Xavix

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That is true to a point, but the game has new players joining, because of the fact that its a newer game. Realistically, in the same regard, Melee gets new players fairly often as well, even as it is an older title. But, a game can only really be new for so long. Smash 4 serves the purpose of being available on a new platform, and brings familiar faces to a game from familiar franchises. It, if anything at all, would only survive on the fact that its familiarity with brawl's mechanics, now limited balance adjustments, DLC, and its accessibility to virtually anyone. I talk about its familiarity with brawl because its pace is only really comparable to brawl, its lack of L-cancelling or "smooth landing," and its relevance as a current title on the market in general at this point in time. That doesn't mean its bad, but if its traits are so similar to a title that came before it, then I'm more compelled to believe that it will follow its predecessors trend as well. But, I still think that it will have it's own decently sized community after its settled for a few years. I just believe its size will probably decrease when that time comes.

And as far as a "blindfold" on the community, that's a little excessive. There are definitely die hard melee fans that won't touch the game, but just as their opinions belong to them, yours will belong to you. Someone that doesn't play the game you do, can't stop you from seeing what you like or foresee for your own game. That'd be a little bit more of a wavering belief in a game due to it being opposed with an opinion that isn't the same as the people who play it. If I said "Don't play smash 4, it's not Melee," people would look at me as if I was nuts, then go back to doing whatever they wanted. If it's meant to be, then that's better for the community as a whole. While I may not be a participant of competitive smash 4, ill always support the community as a whole, and ill hold my opinions for as to why I do or don't like something for those who wanna hear it. But realistically, in my own opinion, I see Smash 4 going in the way I mentioned because of its noted similarities of brawl, and of its dependency of balance adjustments, and new content. Sort of how I thought PM was going to go before the dev team split.

But, using PM as an example, its community is now building around a static build of the game, and will therefore be faced with developing its meta like 64 and melee did before it. It, also, must now stand where it is to either maintain its community size, or try to increase it. Smash 4 will come to face this in about a year or so, when all of the adjustments are done being made on the game, and people have to stick with what they have.

So, to wrap it up, Melee most certainly isn't the "only" outlet for competitive smash brothers, and it never will be. I think that you may have assumed it would be the biggest, and most consistent, which recently it has been, but that doesn't mean that will never change. In all fairness what that community has gone through in about a decade and a half, took a lot of work and a lot of dedication to it. You can't rush that kind of result with anything, even if its new. CoD built itself on a legacy of a strong FPS series, Halo for Third Person Shooters, League of Legends and DOTA for the MOBA markets, and so on and so forth. There will always be competition, but you shouldn't compete with your own series' legacy of success from a different installment, as much as you should build on what part of it means the most to you. That's the challenge other Smash games will be faces with.
I'm not trying to compare it to Melee. (I now understand that the blindfold comment was excessive though; didn't think to much writing that) My honest belief is that they are two seperate entities due to the radically different mechanics. I think my ultimate point was that both games would see growth due to them being so radically different from each other. I also think Sm4sh might be slightly more inviting when patches finish then it did now as new players can learn an ultimate "core" meta that we can't develop because there are still balance patches. Finally, I COMPLETELY understand the "if they don't like them, don't patronize them." I think I came off that way, but my actual point was this: I want people to make opinions on the game before judging it (thus the blindfold.) Sorry if I came off rude after that one.
 

Denjinpachi

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I'm not trying to compare it to Melee. (I now understand that the blindfold comment was excessive though; didn't think to much writing that) My honest belief is that they are two seperate entities due to the radically different mechanics. I think my ultimate point was that both games would see growth due to them being so radically different from each other. I also think Sm4sh might be slightly more inviting when patches finish then it did now as new players can learn an ultimate "core" meta that we can't develop because there are still balance patches. Finally, I COMPLETELY understand the "if they don't like them, don't patronize them." I think I came off that way, but my actual point was this: I want people to make opinions on the game before judging it (thus the blindfold.) Sorry if I came off rude after that one.
Very logical and respectable outlook on both games. Smash 4 definitely isn't gonna stop growing for the more recent future I can say that much. But how far do you see it growing with in the span of a decade of its competitive life? Would you say it would be near brawl, exceed brawl, meet melee, or exceed melee? Just as a speculation,I mean.
 
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Das Koopa

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Melee, but not "by far". Both are pretty popular right now and neither are showing signs of decline.
 

Denjinpachi

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Melee, but not "by far". Both are pretty popular right now and neither are showing signs of decline.
Yeah, I'd say the difference in popularity at this point isn't a huge gap. The real difference really only lies in viewership of livestreams in my opinion.
 

TheGoodGuava

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Very logical and respectable outlook on both games. Smash 4 definitely isn't gonna stop growing for the more recent future I can say that much. But how far do you see it growing with in the span of a decade of its competitive life? Would you say it would be near brawl, exceed brawl, meet melee, or exceed melee? Just as a speculation,I mean.
It's almost guaranteed that Smash 4 will exceed Brawl, meeting/exceeding melee on the other hand... That's an entirely different story
 

theONEjanitor

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Smash 4 probably has more people playing and entering tournaments, but Melee is definitely taken more seriously as a serious esport by people within and outside of the community, and likely will stay that way just because the meta game is so developed and cracked open and no other game has a chance of catching up
 
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Kamikam70

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As many people already stated, the meta for Melee is high and more developed than Sm4sh.
But the fact is, Melee is 15yo. Its meta has been evolving and developing for YEARS, whereas Sm4sh is all fresh. New techs are discovered regularly (could have sworn that I saw a new tech explanation yesterday).
I'm absolutely not flaming on Melee, but to me (and my own personal opinion), it had its time. Let it go slowly, and make room for the newer installments !
 

The Slayer

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I think Melee still has higher popularity. Not that Smash 4 is bad or anything, but I know its been steady since release (even outbeat Melee for total entrants last year). And with the last few updates coming in February, it might steady on a little longer.
 
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SuaveChaser

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Melee is still more popular overall. It has a exciting factor smash 4 just doesn't have.
 

Dividee

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Melee is for now but sm4sh is close behind. I'd give it until the end of this year they'll be even.
 
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Loup

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In Upstate NY, in our biggest regional event series, Melee always had more entries than Smash 4, but barely. Both events always hit 100+ unique players each.
 

Denjinpachi

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As far as a tournament scene, its literally a toss up between which areas and which events you observe. In total, there are probably more smash 4 players. But there is probably more viewership for melee. So...it's kinda subjective to where you are, or what you're watchin.
 

xed122

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As far as a tournament scene, its literally a toss up between which areas and which events you observe. In total, there are probably more smash 4 players. But there is probably more viewership for melee. So...it's kinda subjective to where you are, or what you're watchin.
but in G3 where a lot of more melee players
 

Denjinpachi

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but in G3 where a lot of more melee players
yes. Genesis, a primarily Melee centered tournament series had more melee attendants and viewers. So...idk what that means. Of course it had smash 4 there as well, and also 64, but Genesis was a melee born series. Like period. So that's where its core audience and attendance would shine.
 

xed122

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yes. Genesis, a primarily Melee centered tournament series had more melee attendants and viewers. So...idk what that means. Of course it had smash 4 there as well, and also 64, but Genesis was a melee born series. Like period. So that's where its core audience and attendance would shine.
lets wait into pound nombers, melee will be at least 200+ that smash 4
 

Denjinpachi

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i belive that smash 4 will have a bad year

thanks shiek and zero
But why? You're not really answering anything im asking. Zero will enventually be knocked off the top. Every best player does. He's just on his "King of Smash" phase like one person always is in the beginning of a game.
 

S_B

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I prefer SSB4, but Melee had higher stream numbers at G3.

Maybe SSB4 will become more popular after the meta has developed a bit, maybe not. Time will tell.
 

LITTLEPUNCH

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Melee by far. Melee was actually much larger than Smash 4 last year and Smash 4 is a brand new game and if you compare it with Brawl they have the same thing where people try to make it competitive when it first releases but then realize in just a couple years that this game has no relatively competitive foundation. Melee is quickly evolving into one of the largest esports and the community is still growing. Melee truly is one of the greatest competitive games of all time. And without the game Melee became no one would honestly even give a **** about competitive Smash 4.
I would say that smash 4 actualy does have that competitive foundation unlike brawl because when brawl was released they made the game slower, no directional air dodging,& dash dancing became useless because of tripping. this shows an obious attempt to make the game more casual. but with smash 4, there were new mechanics added in that made it better competitivley like the removal of tripping, changeing the ledge mechanics to make edgeguarding more fun, a ton of throw combos, a faster speed than brawl and even melee (without using any tech that makes the game so fast like wavedashing,L canceling,ect), and a huge balanced character roster. plus, they put most of the development time into the main mode instead of in an adventure mode.
Infact, I would ay that smash 4 was built to be competitive MORE than melee originally was as competitive melee was made completely from the players hard work,dedication,and efforts. with smash 4 though, It had a Invitational tournameny before the game was released. also, the character balancing is miles better than melee.
 

QWA

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Full disclosure: This is written from the perspective of a competitive Melee player. I'm going to be a bit blunt, stubborn, and perhaps a bit rude. These are my own personal thoughts derived from observations made over the last year. I could turn out to be wrong. I have avoided any mention of actual game-play quality because that is very subjective. I have stuck strictly to numbers, which are consistent regardless of personal opinion or preference. We don't need another Smash 4 vs. Melee post on Smash Boards, am I right? That does not mean this is 100% objective (statistics can be misrepresented), but I did my best.

Smash 4's peak is more than likely behind us already. It was at the height of its popularity at EVO 2015 and with Nintendo's support it managed to garner 1,926 entrants, the most of any Smash Bros. tournament ever. It sounds impressive, and it is, but it starts to lose its luster when you look at its other numbers. The second largest Smash 4 event to date, G3, had less than 60% the number of entrants it had at EVO 2015. Out of the 6 events in Smash Bros. history with over 1,000 entrants, Melee claims 4 of them (keep in mind that all 6 of these events have taken place after the release of Smash 4). I will be genuinely surprised if Smash 4 ever tops its impressive entrant count from EVO. It repeatedly and consistently falls behind Melee in viewer numbers at large events. Even when Melee has a much less favorable time slot or even fewer entrants, Melee always seems to perform better among spectators, despite being much older and much less accessible. Smash 4 had an explosive start and appears to be on a slight decline while Melee has remained consistent, rigid, and stubborn, much like the people who play it.

It is definitely worth noting that this is only the top level, though. As Alpha Zealot pointed out earlier, Smash 4 had more tournament entrants overall during 2015. The crucial part comes along now when we see if Smash 4 is able to retain the numbers it had during the initial hype of its release and the flood of casual players entering locals. If the game can't maintain its foundation, it's likely the entire thing will crumble eventually.

MegaFatcat, if you want to play a Smash game competitively, go with the one you love and enjoy the most and not the one that's the most popular. Passion is what keeps our community going. You should definitely play the game you're the most passionate about, regardless of what anyone else says to convince you otherwise. Had Melee players given up on their passion and switched to the most popular game during the Dark Age of Melee, we probably wouldn't have a large tournament scene now. So the point is do what you enjoy, and try to have a good time with it. This goes for everyone, lmao.


So those are just my thoughts, though. Best of luck to all, and when the going gets tough, no Johns. Happy Smashing, folks. ^_^
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Based on the numbers Alpha posted above, yeah 4 is stronger with people entering it.

Which doesn't surprise me given how easy it is to jump into it. Also it is the newest title which helps out a lot.
 

Vhozek

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Smash 4 more famous among casual audiences like little kids, your parents, and so on so you'll probably see more entrants in Smash 4 than Melee also because it's much easier to play. Melee still getting the most viewers and hype, obviously.
 
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