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Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

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Morbi

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Is that tweet regarding Cloud?

Or is it regarding the ballot character to be announced in December?

Or is Cloud the ballot character by suggesting he was a difficult request?
I believe that is the problem, you could interpret the quote any of those ways. Me personally, I thought Sakurai was referencing the second notion. I think the tweet has to do with a character yet to be announced, not Cloud. But it could totally be Cloud.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I believe that is the problem, you could interpret the quote any of those ways. Me personally, I thought Sakurai was referencing the second notion. I think the tweet has to do with a character yet to be announced, not Cloud. But it could totally be Cloud.
Cloud seems like a steep request, so I guess I see the tweet as being related to him. For all we know right now, he is the only character we're getting soon. And Sakurai isn't the type to give teasers, especially through twitter.
 
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Sudoi

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Welp, I think that Limit Break for Cloud is gonna be insane. I mean, why else WOULD HE GAIN CRAZY POWERFUL MOVES?

Cloud seems like a steep request, so I guess I see the tweet as being related to him. For all we know right now, he is the only character we're getting soon. And Sakurai isn't the type to give teasers, especially through twitter.
Oh man, can't believe you guys predicted it hours before he got revealed!
 
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Giga Kaiju

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Well, call me surprised and hyped about Cloud. I mean, DAMN.

I don't think anyone can say that they saw this coming at all, unlike the ones from leaks. Not a huge fan of FF but I AM of gaming, and this helped in that regard. Cloud in SM4SH really is an amzing thing to see in the game. Besides, he's iconic whether you like it or not. This also helps to break conceptions regarding speculation overall, and that IMO is the biggest thing good to have in this community now a days.

In other words, I'm on pro-side of Cloud. Kudos to the team of Sakurai for going to extra-mile in adding a character that was considered as a pipe-dream than a 'shoe-in' like many people have adjusted to for better or for worse.

MFW- he got revealed-

 

Morbi

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Yeah I'm pretty sure every comment about Cloud has been quickly met with sarcasm up until this point. lol
Of course. But at the same, to meet a comment with sarcasm, you need a comment. So for every sarcastic speculator (more like ten... okay, twenty) there was one legitimate Cloud supporter.
 

Kealmir

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Of course. But at the same, to meet a comment with sarcasm, you need a comment. So for every sarcastic speculator (more like ten... okay, twenty) there was one legitimate Cloud supporter.
Even I made a post supporting the idea or 32bit era Final Fantasy character before as a stretch possibility, but quickly dismissed it as wishful thinking. I guess this goes to show Japanese publishers are starting to get a little less stubborn.
 

ErenJager

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You can never have enough anime swordsmen in Smash.

We got the king of all anime swordsmen now.

feelsgoodman
 

Johnknight1

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Ninja Gaiden originated on the arcade/ nes.
Koei Tecmo is one of the few third parties to support the Wii U, with its most recent game on the Wii U.
I definitely can't count this underdog out now that Cloud is in.

Ninja Gaiden is literally right up there with MGS and Final Fantasy.
When it comes to legacy and major franchise of its respective company.
...no. Ninja Gaiden 1 has aged terribly. It has some really awful design, that hampers otherwise great game design. It ruins the entire gameplay. Ninja Gaiden II isn't much better, and Ninja Gaiden III was worse. Really it is a poorly aged series that isn't memorable for anything other than its' ludicrously artificially manufactured difficulty.

The recent trilogy started off well enough with I (which was fantastic last I remember it), but II and III were both mediocre games (and mediocre doesn't matter in this industry). That lack of memorable or continuously invigorating gameplay is why hardly anyone talks about or plays Ninja Gaiden even a tenth as much as Final Fantasy or Metal Gear.

Final Fantasy has numerous times changed the course of traditional RPG gaming and strategy RPG genre and produced many classic games. Metal Gear invented the stealth genre and hasn't been topped there, with numerous classic games that have continually innovated the genre, gaming's approach to stealth and action, crated the first post-modern video game, and reinvented realism in gaming numerous times. Both Final Fantasy and Metal Hear changed the course of gaming history forever, whereas Ninja Gaiden has not come even close.

Sorry, but as much as I love Ryu and Ninja Gaiden I (the remake), it's still doesn't hold a candle to what you're comparing it to in terms of impact.
 

Kealmir

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You can never have enough anime swordsmen in Smash.

We got the king of all anime swordsmen now.

feelsgoodman
I forgot about the Nintendo Direct today and fell asleep, woke up to see Zero and GimR post a video about it and my first reaction was how crazy the forums must be right now! lol.
 

Johnknight1

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If we got Snake and Wolf, and then a newcomer like K.Rool or Inklings, that would be fantastic.
My bet: they'll hold off the newcomers for a later date. Wolf is for sure this time, Snake seems very possible, and Ice Climbers may happen as well.

Then, after that, I would expect no more veteran DLC additions.

Jesus, if we got those 3 veterans + Cloud that would be amazing. All the other characters would simply be fantastic bonuses.
 

Kealmir

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My bet: they'll hold off the newcomers for a later date. Wolf is for sure this time, Snake seems very possible, and Ice Climbers may happen as well.

Then, after that, I would expect no more veteran DLC additions.

Jesus, if we got those 3 veterans + Cloud that would be amazing. All the other characters would simply be fantastic bonuses.
I just hope they find a way to keep developing new additions. eventually the roster is going to get too crowded, but will they push for another Smash title? Or will they just release a retail bundle for people who haven't already purchased the game with the DLC included?
 

Burruni

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Guys. I have a theory. What if we got info on the Ballot on that December stream? I guess they'll reveal Cloud's release date. Geh, never played FF but I know someone's going to be salty for Black Mage being omitted. I like the Limit Break mechanic, I've thought of something similar in the past
"Someone."
Hmm... I wonder.
I wonder who could be possibly upset.
Having one of their 5 most wanted newcomers to be deconfirmed to hell for at least the next decade til around Smash 6 or 7 when we're fine with multi-character 3rd Party series in Smash and that person's gonna be far past their proper gaming age at that point.
I COULD WRITE A BIG RANT ABOUT THIS.
But whatever.
Being upset isn't gonna change crap.
I'm just done speculating.

RIP Isaac, too, I guess.

Whatever.

Just...

Whatever.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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"Someone."
Hmm... I wonder.
I wonder who could be possibly upset.
Having one of their 5 most wanted newcomers to be deconfirmed to hell for at least the next decade til around Smash 6 or 7 when we're fine with multi-character 3rd Party series in Smash and that person's gonna be far past their proper gaming age at that point.
I COULD WRITE A BIG RANT ABOUT THIS.
But whatever.
Being upset isn't gonna change crap.
I'm just done speculating.

RIP Isaac, too, I guess.

Whatever.

Just...

Whatever.
At least Squeenix got something, and the new Crystal Chronicles-esque game will surely have Black Mage in his natural habitat being awesome.
 

IndigoSSB

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I would buy a Linkle alt for Link. Just saying.

Btw, there's a good possibility that Cloud will be released in the December direct (dunno if it's technically a direct but that's what i'll call it for now). We didn't get an explanation of how his Limit Breaker works like they did for Ryu, so it would make a lot of sense if that's how they will spend a part of the direct.
 

Burruni

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At least Squeenix got something, and the new Crystal Chronicles-esque game will surely have Black Mage in his natural habitat being awesome.
I'd honestly have preferred we got nothing from Squeenix and got, y'know, a long awaited Veteran and a highly requested first party character.

Cloud's stage does more than his character for me. By a long shot.

If I keep talking about this I'm just going to get more angry so I'll see you all later.
 

SamuXCI

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I was sort of considering the stars/ space at the start of the direct to be intentionally getting us to think Wolf.
Also the brawl music at the end.

Also here's a tweet. translated by google. unrelated to the rest of this post.

Meet the fairly difficult request?

Ridley confirmed. :smash:
 

IndigoSSB

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Cloud looks OP in the trailer, but it's just a trailer. It's too early to determine how good he is.
Keep in mind we don't know the damage or knockback stats for any of these moves, even if it shows the opponent being killed. We shouldn't judge yet, I still remember back before the game came out people thought Palutena was an overpowered version of Zelda.
 

LunarWingCloud

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You can never have enough anime swordsmen in Smash.

We got the king of all anime swordsmen now.

feelsgoodman
My favorite comment on Etika's reaction video was "wtf they added another fire emblem character". Obvious trolling, but the best troll comment I've seen so far on the subject, I'm hyped AF to see Cloud in.
 

Johnknight1

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I just hope they find a way to keep developing new additions. eventually the roster is going to get too crowded, but will they push for another Smash title? Or will they just release a retail bundle for people who haven't already purchased the game with the DLC included?
They will; there's still plenty of ground left, namely for heavyweights, Brawl veterans, and characters from the 00's and 10's.

I imagine this roster is basically gonna get ported to Smash 5/NX... or that Smash NX is a continuation of Smash 4.

And nah, with Smash, the whole "Nintendo-centric MUGEN-esk roster" thing is a wonderful. Considering how well made and balanced Smash 4 is, and how it continues to improve with each patch... we got nowhere to go but up. :)
Meet the fairly difficult request?

Ridley confirmed. :smash:
At this point, I'm not discounting Ridley or Banjo anymore to be quite honest.
 

Giga Kaiju

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Cloud looks OP in the trailer, but it's just a trailer. It's too early to determine how good he is.
That is a given with every character as they're shown in action. I thought the same about Palutena or Ryu, and I can deal with them just fine. It is just the first shock-look that makes it that way.

:bowser:
 

Foxus

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With Cloud being revealed, I'm honestly wondering if we are indeed going to get Wolf.
 

Ura

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I was sort of considering the stars/ space at the start of the direct to be intentionally getting us to think Wolf.
Also the brawl music at the end.

Also here's a tweet. translated by google. unrelated to the rest of this post.

Maybe Sakurai was pressured by Nintendo to make the decision? Or it was difficult in a sense that Nintendo wasn't hesitant on bringing Cloud in based on his affiliation with Sony consoles and that FF7's remake is headed to the PS4?

With Cloud being revealed, I'm honestly wondering if we are indeed going to get Wolf.
I believe we'll be getting Wolf in a very similar manner that Roy was revealed. Come to think of it, this news announcement reminds me a lot of the Smash mini-direct from June. Wolf will most likely be announced alongside another character that we probably weren't expecting.
 
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Foxus

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Other than the Wolf question, I am suspicious that the Japanese fanbase get the first go around. Reason why I have this suspicion? Remember how we got Sonic in Brawl? That's because Sakurai asked Japanese fans who they wanted, not another demographic, just the Japanese. That's how Sonic got in. There's rumor its the same thing for Cloud. Is the Japanese fanbase going to decide who get in and who doesn't? I know Japan is where Smash originates from but c'mon, you gotta be fair.
 

Ura

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Other than the Wolf question, I am suspicious that the Japanese fanbase get the first go around. Reason why I have this suspicion? Remember how we got Sonic in Brawl? That's because Sakurai asked Japanese fans who they wanted, not another demographic, just the Japanese. That's how Sonic got in. There's rumor its the same thing for Cloud. Is the Japanese fanbase going to decide who get in and who doesn't? I know Japan is where Smash originates from but c'mon, you gotta be fair.
Well to be fair, all the characters being brought in as DLC appeal to everyone across the world. Personally speaking, I haven't had any DLC character disappoint me yet.
 

Foxus

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Well to be fair, all the characters being brought in as DLC appeal to everyone across the world. Personally speaking, I haven't had any DLC character disappoint me yet.
I'm not zeroing anything out, nor have conspiracy theories.
Just what happened with Brawl, then how Final Fantasy is said to be a favorite among Japanese fans is a little too close for comfort.
 

MysticKnives

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Other than the Wolf question, I am suspicious that the Japanese fanbase get the first go around. Reason why I have this suspicion? Remember how we got Sonic in Brawl? That's because Sakurai asked Japanese fans who they wanted, not another demographic, just the Japanese. That's how Sonic got in. There's rumor its the same thing for Cloud. Is the Japanese fanbase going to decide who get in and who doesn't? I know Japan is where Smash originates from but c'mon, you gotta be fair.
Interesting indeed. I can see why people are so sure that Wolf is coming, but like someone else posted, most characters Smash fans (at least a portion of them) said were sure to either be included or deconfirmed ended up being false. Cloud was a huge shocker, showing that anything can and will happen (of course this was also shown when Roy returned as an example). Wolf makes sense to return, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't, just like I won't be surprised if he does. I won't tell you what mindset you should have, but for me, whatever happens, happens. I'm expecting anything but I ain't pessimistic. I'm pleased with any DLC character.
 

Johnknight1

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Sakurai is a huge Sony console fan. That's a big reason why Snake got in and why Cloud is now in. He wasn't pressured into this. Sony and Nintendo have a great relationship anyways in their mutual respect. Nintendo top employees have complimented Final Fantasy VII, Shadow of the Colossus, and LittleBigPlanet openly before too.
Pretty much at this point.
Snake for being a veteran from Brawl and Rayman for that unexplained trophy.
3rd party characters are cool, don't get me wrong but we're literally jumping through skyscrapers right now.
I think it's time we see a veteran/Nintendo character now.
The 3rd party characters we've seen are legends. Snake, Rayman, and Simon Belmont are legends. Past those 3 (and I strongly doubt Simon Belmont) or Sakurai pulling a miracle with getting Banjo (which I'm not ruling out entirely anymore), I don't see much room for 3rd party characters being added in Smash for roughly a half decade.
 

pupNapoleon

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So much salt...

It truly will be the best character game of all time.

This should only make people happy.

Ridley, Snake, Banjo... they made it.
I'm positive.

I'm more hyped than ever.

...even though the stream was so awful I missed nearly all the information.
MY VIDEOS FINALLY POSTED THOUGH! So yay to my channel.

Johnknight1 Johnknight1 I think Lara Croft is a character who deserves to be in as much as Cloud and Ryu. PS home, iconic, groundbreaking for the genre...
 
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Ura

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The only third party character I want to see get in the game now is Snake. Other than Snake, the rest of the DLC characters should be Nintendo characters IMO.

So, how many characters do you guys think were getting now? Do you consider the other 2 "Mario" slots from the datamining the last DLC characters (including the ballot) or are those last 2 slots from the last pre-ballot characters who would presumably be revealed in the December announcement?

Personally, depending on the 2 scenarios, I can see either on of these 2 things happening.

Scenario 1) The other 2 "Mario" files were for the last DLC characters

Cloud
Wolf
Ballot Character

Scenario 2) The other 2 "Mario" files were for the last 2 pre-ballot characters and Ballot characters will be released in 2016.

Cloud
Wolf
Final Pre-Ballot Character (Snake plz)

K. Rool
Bandanna Dee
Isaac
 

DonkaFjord

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Let me explain: The demise I speak of is the roster becoming MUGAN. Obscure Nintendo characters may not be initially exciting, but they bring light to a different side of the company. They add something interesting, and they help represent the company's history, Because this is what the game is about. Super Smash Brothers is about celebrating Nintendo. What does Heroes of the Storm celebrate. Does it celebrate the golden age of PC gaming, or is it about Blizzard. It's the latter. That means I don't want Command and Conquer characters in Heroes of the Storm. I want Tracer, not the Scout.

The demise of Smash Brothers is because the roster and additions become meaningless. It becomes about adding "icons" and becomes a mess. MUGAN is a fan game for a reason.
I think there is a huge difference between Mugan/Mugen and Smash and it has a lot to do with polish/a central vision and the fact that the roster is "balanced" and the additions are curated- I think it's a sign that all of the guest characters thus far are huge iconic characters that are recognizable by non gamers and are the top video game characters in Japan. Hasn't Sakurai called smash a celebration of Japanese gaming before? I personally love the obscure and historical throwbacks to Nintendo's past, but there is no doubt that R.O.B. and Cloud carry different degrees of instantaneous excitement that is important for DLC and that some Smash Fans are drawn to the guest characters ( Seeing Mario, Kirby, Link, etc. all together lost it's magic in the early 2000's for people who grew alongside the SSB franchise I guess? Or maybe crossovers have been more and more common in Nintendo's works.)

Smash feels like a huge museum put on by Nintendo showcasing their works but with a few nods to a few important works by other companies. In the whole scheme of content being characters, assists, stages, (non gameplay elements like music & trophies,) Nintendo is the clear focus. I honestly won't worry about the watering down of the roster till the guest characters reach a certain point (for me that is before 1/4 the roster) or we start seeing guest franchises without a legacy appearing.

I think it would be a missed opportunity to showcase characters that aren't Nintendo but are still important to the mythos and lore of Nintendo. I do agree Cloud is stretching it, but his franchise and company still has ties to Nintendo- I understand being upset for Cloud, but wishing away all guest characters seems to also undermine a lot of fan's experiences who grew up with Nintendo and see characters like Sonic, Megaman, Ryu, etc. as being love letters to specific times or games that heavily influenced Not only Nintendo, but the entire industry, and pop culture as a whole.

Edit: I also wanted to say I hold a great deal of respect for you, but I just wanted to say Smash is like a museum, and taking out a masterpiece in a similar style to the rest of the collection just because it is from a different painter would definitely make the museum more enjoyable for purists, but disappointing for the majority of visitors. Who knows if they are widening the floodgates more for money, more surprise, or if Sakurai, being the creative person he is, is growing bored of retreading the same ground. Nevertheless, the guest characters are a fever dream come true for a lot of people even if they are more casual or not "true Nintendo fans" (whatever that means.)
 
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MysticKnives

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The only third party character I want to see get in the game now is Snake. Other than Snake, the rest of the DLC characters should be Nintendo characters IMO.

So, how many characters do you guys think were getting now? Do you consider the other 2 "Mario" slots from the datamining the last DLC characters (including the ballot) or are those last 2 slots from the last pre-ballot characters who would presumably be revealed in the December announcement?

Personally, depending on the 2 scenarios, I can see either on of these 2 things happening.

Scenario 1) The other 2 "Mario" files were for the last DLC characters

Cloud
Wolf
Ballot Character

Scenario 2) The other 2 "Mario" files were for the last 2 pre-ballot characters and Ballot characters will be released in 2016.

Cloud
Wolf
Final Pre-Ballot Character (Snake plz)

K. Rool
Bandanna Dee
Isaac
I like this. But I'm going into this with a where the chips fall where they may kind of mindset. Anything is good for me. I agree some of the characters you listed are likely, but as we've seen time and again , nothing is guaranteed until it's confirmed.
 

Banjodorf

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I'm just gonna stop predicting anything and hope our ballot thoughts are somewhat aligned. Sakurai is clearly on a totally different wavelength than any of us.

Wow.
 

Johnknight1

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I think Lara Croft is a character who deserves to be in as much as Cloud and Ryu. PS home, iconic, groundbreaking for the genre...
Lara isn't as important as Ryu (not even close; I don't think people realize how iconic or important Ryu and the series he represents is to video games) but definitely is more than Cloud (by miles).

The difference with Cloud is that his series is huge, has incredible history with Nintendo, and is so much bigger than Tomb Raider. Nintendo also has a deal for Dragon Quest, and I imagine this is going to help them land Final Fantasy VII's remake on the NX.

Honestly... Lara Croft would make sense down the line, but as the cards stack up now, I think she should be held off as a possibility. In the future she is definitely worth considering.

Right now I think the only potential non-Nintendo owned additions worth considering now are Snake first and foremost and then Banjo (if possible), Simon Belmont (for similar reasons to Mega Man; he's like an adopted Nintendo character), and of course Rayman.
 
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