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GAO (Ganondorf Approach Options)

Gleam

Smash Ace
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Just like my GMD Discussion, where we gave input on each move that Ganondorf possess, now its time to disucss some approaching options. Ganondorf has always had trouble approaching so there might not be much to talk about here.

1.) What are the best/better ways to approach on the ground?

2.) What are the best/better ways to approach in the air.

Give your input, make it good, I'll put it in the Compact List.
 

SaltyKracka

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Umm.....well there's these for ground approaches.

1. Running
2. Dash attack
3. Rolling
4. Shieldwalking
5. Murder choke
6. Murder kick
 

Jekyll

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Ganon can approach?

I mean, if you count anything that gets you closer to the opponent as an approach then sure, running, murder kicking, walking while taunting every five steps, etc are all approaches...But as far as good, safe and/or useful approaches go, Ganon doesn't really have much. He's really all about using baiting and luring as a form of pseudo-offense(which doesn't work too well against projectile characters.

As far as approaching goes, I'd say that ShortHopAirDodging is golden. It's mostly defensive and it's good against projectile characters, but it also has virtually no lag upon landing. SHAD into a SPACED f-tilt or d-tilt is gold, and I use it a lot in my game. I've been messing around with double-jumped fast-falled Airdodging as well, but fastfalling or falling from higher than a shorthop causes ganon to have a few frames of landing lag which aren't much, but can screw with timing.

Walking is better for "approaching" than running is.

RAR bairs and uairs are nice for taller characters. bairs can be FFed with no lag if you start them soon enough. Using any B move as an approach (that is, using it when the opponent is fully capable of blocking/dodging) isn't wise.
 

A2ZOMG

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Ganon isn't very good at approaching.

I got 3stocked by Teh_Spammerer's Jigglypuff trying to approach it. )=

If your opponent shields a lot, go for a murder choke or dash grab. If they spotdodge a lot, go for a dashing shieldgrab. D-air works as a way to work into an opponent's blindspot occasionally. B-air, N-air, and U-air suck unless your opponent is on a platform or is really huge. F-air is unsafe on miss, a bit tricky to use on short characters, but okay on block.

Dash attack or Wizard's Foot works well against most characters who spam ground attacks to much. Wizard's foot deals with spotdodges and air dodges better.

60% of the time, my approach is just simply walking towards my opponent and waiting for them to make a move that I can punish.

Also vs Kirby who likes to space B-airs, learn to Powershield the B-air and Dash grab him as he lands.
 

Gleam

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I've always known Ganondorf sucked at approaching, but I wanted to hear input just incase anybody had some good tips.

New thing so I don't have to create another topic, though you can all discuss approaching options if you want.
---
---

GPO (Ganodorf Projectile Ordeal)

Yep, dealing with projectiles. Which ones do you consider the best and worst against Ganondorf, and how do you usually get around these projectiles, be it powershielding, shieldwalking, dodging, etc?
 

Mith_

Smash Champion
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Powershielding would be the best imo. Rolling can get you punished and spotdodging gets you nowhere lol.

Shieldwalking is just bleh.
 

hyperstation

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Which ones do you consider the best and worst against Ganondorf, and how do you usually get around these projectiles, be it powershielding, shieldwalking, dodging, etc?
I'll give my input on the projectile based fighters against whom I have the most experience. I'll leave the remaining characters to others with more expertise.

Samus is generally very easy for me. It's probably due to my experience vs samus more than any other character, but she's limited to power beam/charge shot, missile, homing missile, and for sake of argument, a really long zair (best in the game). Charge shot and both missiles are slow, so getting the power shield is easy and can be done very consistently. You can crouch under missiles which are fired while samus is jumping to get the missile cancel to happen, and approach during the follow-up missile rather than having to block all of them. Zair is better dealt with by spot dodging or wiz kicking/DA under the zair to knock her out of the air before the Zair connects. Difficulty: 4/10, Best Approach Option: Power shielding/perfect shield walking.

Diddy is pretty nasty with the bananas. Anyone who has played against a glide tossing, nana juggling Diddy knows as much. The most important thing here is to disrupt his banana game with aerials and dash attacks to grab them. Once you have possession of a banana you have many more approach options, or rather, you are going to have less of a problem approaching. Be aware that Diddy's will try to use your bananas against you by ^B next to them to send a rogue rocket barrel your way. Difficulty: 8/10, Best Approach Option: Low aerials and airdodges to grab bananas in the air, DA to grab them off the ground, wiz kick over grounded bananas (F*** Banana Technique)

Fox is a goof ball and his projectiles don't count for s***. No hit stun = not an issue. His projectiles don't affect how you choose to approach.

Toon Link has arrows, bombs, boomerang, and a short ranged zair which isn't of much merit. Arrow spam is easily perfect shield walked. Boomerang gets thrown in with arrows, but can also be tilted up and bounced off the ground to shut down aerial approaches. Bombs will be used from above often as well as thrown into the projectile cocktail toon link's brewing up. Can be intercepted with aerials and dashes (I believe), but in general, bombs are more easily avoided than toon link's other projectiles. Difficulty: 6/10, Best Approach Option: Shield Walking

My experience with Pikachu is unfortunately limited to wifi matches generally, but his electric bouncy ball seems to be fairly easily power shielded or even rolled past/jumped over they're not in series. Difficulty: 2/10, Best Approach Option: Power Shielding, Shield walking, rolling

I suppose I could write about Mario and Luigi, but really, it's difficult for them to spam their fireballs to the point of annoyance. I don't know enough about mario match-ups to say if fludd can be used for much more than gimping recoveries.

I don't have trouble with DDD's waddledees, but I haven't played enough tournament level DDD's to say for sure how difficult it is to approach beyond them. Their range is a limiting factor to be sure, and in general, they'll be going for that sweet chain grab on you.

A general note on projectiles: if you're having trouble, play on a level with at least one platform. Platforms are the default escape plan when being projectile spammed not because it gets you out of the line of fire, but rather because it causes your opponent to change what he's doing. He might jump and fire projectiles, begin to approach in some fashion, etc. Diddy on FD is 100x harder than Diddy on Battlefield. Common knowledge, I know, but I'm just throwing it out there.
 

A2ZOMG

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Diddy is pretty nasty with the bananas. Anyone who has played against a glide tossing, nana juggling Diddy knows as much. The most important thing here is to disrupt his banana game with aerials and dash attacks to grab them. Once you have possession of a banana you have many more approach options, or rather, you are going to have less of a problem approaching. Be aware that Diddy's will try to use your bananas against you by ^B next to them to send a rogue rocket barrel your way. Difficulty: 8/10, Best Approach Option: Low aerials and airdodges to grab bananas in the air, DA to grab them off the ground, wiz kick over grounded bananas (F*** Banana Technique)
Thunderstorming works better for picking up Bananas from the ground.
 

hyperstation

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Thunderstorming works better for picking up Bananas from the ground.
No, that's just not true. What you meant to say is "thunderstorming also works for picking up bananas from the ground". It's always situational whether you want to use a thunderstorm or a DA to pick them up, but I find myself using DA far more often because it has more range than thunderstorming, and doubles as an approach option. I use DA to both grab the banana and hit diddy so I can then toss the banana and get a string of attacks going. Thunderstorm only hits if diddy is passing underneath you to get the banana, and chances are that if you hit him, he's already got the banana anyway. Tstorming might be the better tactic when Diddy is on the other end of the stage, and you're not worried about hitting him as well as getting the banana, but due to the banana's relatively short throw range coupled with Diddy's quick grounded approach speed, he is usually just a couple steps behind any banana, often within DA range.

True, thunderstorming works to pick up Bananas from the ground, but I definitely think DA is the superior tactic far more often.
 

Swoops

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^Stomp picks them up from a slightly greater distance (very slightly though.) I prefer stomp heavily to DA because it has no lag whatsoever and can punish any ground attempt made by diddy. The lag alone on DA warrants stomp being a bit more useful. Not to mention if Diddy banana spamming his spacing is going to be top notch and he's usually going to be far enough away to avoid and punish. At least if he's far away when you stomp, you don't get punished.

Stomp is less risky and gives you a lot more reward. Not to say that DA shouldn't be used a decent amount though.
 

Sliq

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I think this thread should be re-titled, "TUAT (The Unnecassary Acronymn Thread)," because that what it fucking is.

I've been messing around with double-jumped fast-falled Airdodging as well, but fastfalling or falling from higher than a shorthop causes ganon to have a few frames of landing lag which aren't much, but can screw with timing.
I'm FAIRly certain (smash puns, hoho) that you can cancel landing lag witha move. Don't pin me down on that though. I'm more certain you can cancel that lag with movement, but moves may work as well, making the landing lag moot.

Also, Pikachu and Dedede **** Ganon. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking bastard.
 

Swoops

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Sliq, cmon...everybody knows you don't include "the" in the acronym.

It's the DITITA Rule.
 

Sliq

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Sliq, cmon...everybody knows you don't include "the" in the acronym.

It's the DITITA Rule.
Oh man...you are making me so angry right now. I just squeezed my mouse into powder to keep from losing my shit and ruining you through the internet.
 

Swoops

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Oh man...you are making me so angry right now. I just squeezed my mouse into powder to keep from losing my shit and ruining you through the internet.
O.o?! Well that's a dead mouse now.

On topic: Learn to powershield and you'll do just fine against most projectiles. Be patient, powershield, etc.

Warlock with dark magic and thunder in his boots>penguin with a hammer...actually I'm in debate about this.

It is a penguin with a hammer.
 

hyperstation

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The fact that pikachu ***** ganon is inscrutable, but it has little to do with his projectile. We're not in a matchup thread here boss, we're talking about projectiles.
 

Ray_Kalm

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Sliq, stop putting Ganondorf in such a place which makes him look like complete crap, it annoys me.
 

TP

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Guys, the best approach option is clearly reverse Warlock Punching. I've made a list of reasons:

1) It's manly.

Any questions?
 

Gleam

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I think this thread should be re-titled, "TUAT (The Unnecassary Acronymn Thread)," because that what it fucking is..
IDGAD (I don't gve a ****)

Come on Sliq, your the one whose always saying you hate threads that have no helpful value to the Ganon board. (Ganon needes his sword!) and all that.

So stop being an ***, and give some helpful input.
 

Ray_Kalm

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Ganondorfs best approach option wouldn't be a approach at all.

It's way safer to lure your opponents to you then going and risking defeat to them.

Everyone's attracted with the lovely random stomping, so it'd be best to use this for a sort of bait.
 

Jekyll

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IDGAD (I don't gve a ****)

Come on Sliq, your the one whose always saying you hate threads that have no helpful value to the Ganon board. (Ganon needes his sword!) and all that.

So stop being an ***, and give some helpful input.
rofl...You obviously don't know sliq. The majority of his helpful input comes wrapped in many layers of sarcasm, tomfoolery and ******-bashing. I currently have a team of Top-Notch decoders working on unraveling the mystery of his previous posts. Top-Notch I tell you! It's only a matter of time before we have the secret to Murder-Fisted Uair Canceled Kills (or M****s for short).

To Swoops: Using "bamf" as a verb makes you awesome.
 

Gleam

Smash Ace
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rofl...You obviously don't know sliq. The majority of his helpful input comes wrapped in many layers of sarcasm, tomfoolery and ******-bashing. I currently have a team of Top-Notch decoders working on unraveling the mystery of his previous posts. Top-Notch I tell you! It's only a matter of time before we have the secret to Murder-Fisted Uair Canceled Kills (or M****s for short).

To Swoops: Using "bamf" as a verb makes you awesome.
Rofl, you just made my day Jekyll. M****s

It's hard for me to find the seriousness in the vast amounts of sarcasm, tomfoolry and ******-bashing. Then again, Im' not a top notch Sliq post decoder.
 
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