Ganondorf's Spotdodge and Rolls

[:034:]

Ganondorf's dodge options are usually considered 'bad', but why? This thread says something completely different: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510

Spotdodge frame data:
Invincible from frames 2-20, IASA frames at 25. So 5 frames after the invincibility, you can do whatever you want. THIS PUTS IT ON PAR WITH ROB'S SPOTDODGE.

So, Ganondorf's spotdodge can't be bad - it's the same as Rob's. And Rob's is good. What Ganondorf lacks is a good option after the spotdodge - the fastest action you can perform is nair or jab, which still take about 8 frames.

Roll frame data:
Both rolls have invincibility from frames 4-19, and IASA at frame 31. You're open for 12 frames.

This might seem bad, but it's actually among some of the superior rolls - his back roll is better than 20 characters, and ties with 16 others. It's only inferior to Lucario's, Diddy's and Squirtle's. Same with the forward roll: it's better than 17 out of 39, and it's only bested by 6 others...

Airdodge frame data:
Airdodges are bull****, but hey. Invincibility from frames 4-29 and IASA at frame 49.

It's bull**** because almost every newcomer character has IASA frames at frame 39 (MK even has one extra invincibility frame...).Anyway, it ranks somewhere in the middle, having a tie with a lot of characters... But it's not the worst, Peach's has 10 less invincibility frames... Youch.


tl;dr: Ganondorf's dodging options aren't bad, it's his options AFTER them that makes it an overall bad idea.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganondorf's dodging options aren't bad, it's his options AFTER them that makes it an overall bad idea.

Yeah, and it very sad ;/

The best thing one can do efter a spot dodge seem to be....... another spot dodge =_='

 

[MoblinMan]

I really miss his melee jab.

 

[Z1GMA]

I really miss his melee jab.

Yeah, I love how arrogant it looked.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This still doesn't prove much..

Ganondorf's spot-dodge may be considered good, but it puts Ganon at a worse place than any of his other moves.

He lacks OoS options.

 

[:034:]

Ganondorf's spot-dodge may be considered good, but it puts Ganon at a worse place than any of his other moves.

Warlock Punch? >_>

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Warlock Punch? >_>

No, no. I thought of that before I posted.

Warlock Punch scares the **** out of the other player.

 

[:034:]

No, no. I thought of that before I posted.

Warlock Punch scares the **** out of the other player.

But it has much more lag than a spotdodge, good players will simply stand by and punish when you're ready... It's much harder punishing 5 frames than... I dunno how many lag frames WP has.

 

[A2ZOMG]

N-air takes 14 frames to start up (jump is 7 frames). Your two fastest attacks are Grab (7 frames) and Jab (8 frames).

It is incredibly unlikely that you're going to dodge an attack at exactly the last frames possible. Shield drop lag is only 7 frames, so that's much more reliable for punishing people.

Ganon's spotdodge and a lot of things would be much better if just his grab range were better.

 

[hyperstation]

I remain a huge fan of spot dodge shenanigans. Kalm's just a hater...who's better than me at brawl.