RSQ
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2019
- Messages
- 7
NOTE: this information has been tested, but by hand in UnclePunch. I'm also a dunce with messy writing. So, basically, I'm pretty sure this is all correct but you shouldn't take it as gospel.
Notes On Throws:
- The start-up of your pummel is quite slow (13f from when you pressed A, so maybe 15 frames into grab), meaning that this isn't reliable from ~0-10% against good mashers.
Reaction Tech-Chase (RTC) regrab with GnW???
- I believe this to be possible, based on TAS and math, but it's one of the things I'm least confident in.
- The basic method is the same as in Gravy's reddit post "20GX on Luigi": input your jump by muscle memory before your reaction is
over, then input a wavedash + direction (rolls), WD down (miss tech), or JC grab as necessary
- WD down must be followed by very quick actions and reactions to catch their option out of MissTech. If possible you may just want
to hit them with up-b (guaranteed) or WD into hard read (not guaranteed).
- You must have perfect or near-perfect wavedashes (notched?) to catch tech rolls.
- All these factors mean that, IMO, the RTC is possible but not consistent for a well-practiced human. Avoid it unless it's the
best or only combo extender you have available.
FD VS. SPACIES
Upthrow chaingrab:
At 28%: Pummel -> Upthrow
- IF DI HARD AWAY: Regrab -> Pummel -> Fthrow/Dthrow DI mixup
-- IF YOU TRICK THEIR DI: Regrab
-- IF THEY DI FOR THE CORRECT THROW: Wavedash to their landing place and reaction techchase regrab (hard)
- IF SLIGHT OR NO DI: Uptilt
-- MOST DI: Regrab
-- IF SDI UP:
--- IF NEAR LEDGE: Fair/Nair them offstage -> edgeguard
--- IF CENTRAL IN STAGE: Deep upair juggle or platform TC
-- IF HARD DI TO THE SIDE:
--- IF YOU HIT THEM LATE IN UTILT: Dash JC regrab
--- IF YOU HIT THEM EARLY IN UTILT: WD -> RTC regrab
If you now have them in grab at 40% (Falco) or 45-50% (Fox), you can go for optimal or easy:
OPTIMAL: Pummel -> buffered Dthrow chaingrab! All DI can be caught and the reactions are quite viable. Full DI on the first
couple Dthrows might be unreactable in spite of being possible to grab frame-wise. I've gotten this fairly consistently though, so
I THINK it's possible. If you really want, you could always do Dthrow -> WD -> RTC regrab but I doubt it's any easier.
EASY: Upthrow combos to Utilt, which then combos to Fair, Bair, Uair, and/or Nair. This is easier and more consistent than the
previous option, but ends the combo at as little as ~65%. This guarantees that any grab will be viable for Dthrow CG to death, but
requires you to win neutral again (with grab or otherwise) to close the stock.
DThrow is DEFINITELY reactable from ~65%-125% - at these percents a well-practiced player should pretty much never mess it up.
At 93/103/113% (Fox on YS/BF/DL64) or 100/110/122% (Falco): Pummel -> Dthrow -> Fsmash
- The Fsmash IS GUARANTEED and WILL KILL, but if they hard DI it may require a pivot or run-cancel.
Note that if they go to platform at any point (much easier for Falco than Fox, especially off of Dthrow), this flowchart breaks down. If anyone has a good platform RTC flowchart, I'd love to see it - so far I've just been doing fullhop Dair and then trying to cover tech rolls with grab/dash atk on reaction.
Notes On Throws:
- I think it's wisest to assume that the enemy knows your throw animations. Mix-up between Uthrow/Bthrow and Dthrow/Fthrow, since they have (I think) identical animations. But if you try mixup between Uthrow/Dthrow, say, then you are relying on the ignorance of your opponent.
- If you can get a pummel, you can get any throw, guaranteed! Downthrow is easiest since you can buffer it on the C-stick, but for every other throw you have a 3-frame window after the END of your pummel animation to input the throw. Two caveats:
- The start-up of your pummel is quite slow (13f from when you pressed A, so maybe 15 frames into grab), meaning that this isn't reliable from ~0-10% against good mashers.
Reaction Tech-Chase (RTC) regrab with GnW???
- I believe this to be possible, based on TAS and math, but it's one of the things I'm least confident in.
- The basic method is the same as in Gravy's reddit post "20GX on Luigi": input your jump by muscle memory before your reaction is
over, then input a wavedash + direction (rolls), WD down (miss tech), or JC grab as necessary
- WD down must be followed by very quick actions and reactions to catch their option out of MissTech. If possible you may just want
to hit them with up-b (guaranteed) or WD into hard read (not guaranteed).
- You must have perfect or near-perfect wavedashes (notched?) to catch tech rolls.
- All these factors mean that, IMO, the RTC is possible but not consistent for a well-practiced human. Avoid it unless it's the
best or only combo extender you have available.
FD VS. SPACIES
Upthrow chaingrab:
- True on Falco until at least 28%
- True on Fox until at least 20% but probably ~28.
- At 15% and above the regrab window is pretty tight, practice the timing on your grabs.
- You must learn to pivot grab or at least dashdance JC grab to catch ambiguous DI.
At 28%: Pummel -> Upthrow
- IF DI HARD AWAY: Regrab -> Pummel -> Fthrow/Dthrow DI mixup
-- IF YOU TRICK THEIR DI: Regrab
-- IF THEY DI FOR THE CORRECT THROW: Wavedash to their landing place and reaction techchase regrab (hard)
- IF SLIGHT OR NO DI: Uptilt
-- MOST DI: Regrab
-- IF SDI UP:
--- IF NEAR LEDGE: Fair/Nair them offstage -> edgeguard
--- IF CENTRAL IN STAGE: Deep upair juggle or platform TC
-- IF HARD DI TO THE SIDE:
--- IF YOU HIT THEM LATE IN UTILT: Dash JC regrab
--- IF YOU HIT THEM EARLY IN UTILT: WD -> RTC regrab
If you now have them in grab at 40% (Falco) or 45-50% (Fox), you can go for optimal or easy:
OPTIMAL: Pummel -> buffered Dthrow chaingrab! All DI can be caught and the reactions are quite viable. Full DI on the first
couple Dthrows might be unreactable in spite of being possible to grab frame-wise. I've gotten this fairly consistently though, so
I THINK it's possible. If you really want, you could always do Dthrow -> WD -> RTC regrab but I doubt it's any easier.
EASY: Upthrow combos to Utilt, which then combos to Fair, Bair, Uair, and/or Nair. This is easier and more consistent than the
previous option, but ends the combo at as little as ~65%. This guarantees that any grab will be viable for Dthrow CG to death, but
requires you to win neutral again (with grab or otherwise) to close the stock.
DThrow is DEFINITELY reactable from ~65%-125% - at these percents a well-practiced player should pretty much never mess it up.
At 93/103/113% (Fox on YS/BF/DL64) or 100/110/122% (Falco): Pummel -> Dthrow -> Fsmash
- The Fsmash IS GUARANTEED and WILL KILL, but if they hard DI it may require a pivot or run-cancel.
Note that if they go to platform at any point (much easier for Falco than Fox, especially off of Dthrow), this flowchart breaks down. If anyone has a good platform RTC flowchart, I'd love to see it - so far I've just been doing fullhop Dair and then trying to cover tech rolls with grab/dash atk on reaction.
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