Game&Watch Grab Flowcharts vs Spacies

[RSQ]

NOTE: this information has been tested, but by hand in UnclePunch. I'm also a dunce with messy writing. So, basically, I'm pretty sure this is all correct but you shouldn't take it as gospel.



Notes On Throws:

• I think it's wisest to assume that the enemy knows your throw animations. Mix-up between Uthrow/Bthrow and Dthrow/Fthrow, since they have (I think) identical animations. But if you try mixup between Uthrow/Dthrow, say, then you are relying on the ignorance of your opponent.
• If you can get a pummel, you can get any throw, guaranteed! Downthrow is easiest since you can buffer it on the C-stick, but for every other throw you have a 3-frame window after the END of your pummel animation to input the throw. Two caveats:

- I would practice this quite a bit before using it regularly, since 3 frames is a decently tight window.
- The start-up of your pummel is quite slow (13f from when you pressed A, so maybe 15 frames into grab), meaning that this isn't reliable from ~0-10% against good mashers.

Reaction Tech-Chase (RTC) regrab with GnW???
- I believe this to be possible, based on TAS and math, but it's one of the things I'm least confident in.
- The basic method is the same as in Gravy's reddit post "20GX on Luigi": input your jump by muscle memory before your reaction is
over, then input a wavedash + direction (rolls), WD down (miss tech), or JC grab as necessary
- WD down must be followed by very quick actions and reactions to catch their option out of MissTech. If possible you may just want
to hit them with up-b (guaranteed) or WD into hard read (not guaranteed).
- You must have perfect or near-perfect wavedashes (notched?) to catch tech rolls.
- All these factors mean that, IMO, the RTC is possible but not consistent for a well-practiced human. Avoid it unless it's the
best or only combo extender you have available.

FD VS. SPACIES
Upthrow chaingrab:

• True on Falco until at least 28%
• True on Fox until at least 20% but probably ~28.
• At 15% and above the regrab window is pretty tight, practice the timing on your grabs.
• You must learn to pivot grab or at least dashdance JC grab to catch ambiguous DI.

At 28%: Pummel -> Upthrow
- IF DI HARD AWAY: Regrab -> Pummel -> Fthrow/Dthrow DI mixup
-- IF YOU TRICK THEIR DI: Regrab
-- IF THEY DI FOR THE CORRECT THROW: Wavedash to their landing place and reaction techchase regrab (hard)
- IF SLIGHT OR NO DI: Uptilt
-- MOST DI: Regrab
-- IF SDI UP:
--- IF NEAR LEDGE: Fair/Nair them offstage -> edgeguard
--- IF CENTRAL IN STAGE: Deep upair juggle or platform TC
-- IF HARD DI TO THE SIDE:
--- IF YOU HIT THEM LATE IN UTILT: Dash JC regrab
--- IF YOU HIT THEM EARLY IN UTILT: WD -> RTC regrab

If you now have them in grab at 40% (Falco) or 45-50% (Fox), you can go for optimal or easy:
OPTIMAL: Pummel -> buffered Dthrow chaingrab! All DI can be caught and the reactions are quite viable. Full DI on the first
couple Dthrows might be unreactable in spite of being possible to grab frame-wise. I've gotten this fairly consistently though, so
I THINK it's possible. If you really want, you could always do Dthrow -> WD -> RTC regrab but I doubt it's any easier.

EASY: Upthrow combos to Utilt, which then combos to Fair, Bair, Uair, and/or Nair. This is easier and more consistent than the
previous option, but ends the combo at as little as ~65%. This guarantees that any grab will be viable for Dthrow CG to death, but
requires you to win neutral again (with grab or otherwise) to close the stock.


DThrow is DEFINITELY reactable from ~65%-125% - at these percents a well-practiced player should pretty much never mess it up.

At 93/103/113% (Fox on YS/BF/DL64) or 100/110/122% (Falco): Pummel -> Dthrow -> Fsmash
- The Fsmash IS GUARANTEED and WILL KILL, but if they hard DI it may require a pivot or run-cancel.

Note that if they go to platform at any point (much easier for Falco than Fox, especially off of Dthrow), this flowchart breaks down. If anyone has a good platform RTC flowchart, I'd love to see it - so far I've just been doing fullhop Dair and then trying to cover tech rolls with grab/dash atk on reaction.

 

[Abefroman]

hey this is sick, nice work! I always have trouble chaingrabbing spacies so i usually just go for a single easy follow up hit instead. Gotta get back in unc;lepunch and learn but it's boring asf lmao

 

[RSQ]

hey this is sick, nice work! I always have trouble chaingrabbing spacies so i usually just go for a single easy follow up hit instead. Gotta get back in unc;lepunch and learn but it's boring asf lmao

Thanks! And yeah CG practice is a long way from the most fun part of Melee.

To extend the initial post, I did a bit of testing with platform stuff. There are four ways I describe here:

1. Dair TC: FHFFL down-air to cover in-place options, then regrab rolls on reaction, as described in the first post.
2. Nair MOC: Cover at least 3/4 and usually even 4/4 tech options with FH Nair with correct positioning + drift.
3. WL RTC: Fullhop, waveland down, regrab all techs on reaction. Your choice of jab, Dtilt, or crouch RTC regrab on miss tech.
4. NIL RTC: Same as WL RTC but you reach the platform by no-impact landing instead of wavelanding down.

Battlefield:

Falco - No DI:​

0%+: NIL RTC​

Falco - Full DI:​

0-20%: Dair TC​

20%+: NIL RTC​

Fox - No DI:​

0-10%: Dair TC​

10%+: NIL RTC​

Fox - Full DI:​

0-30%: Dair TC​

30%+: NIL RTC​

​

Frozen Stadium:

Falco AND Fox - ALL DI:​

0%+: WL RTC​

​

NOTE: Fox's timing is very tight at low percents. On No DI, it is possible to rising up-air spacies before they land, tacking on damage while still setting up a tech-chase, but this is vulnerable to SDI.​

​

Dreamland 64:

NOTE: Your fullhop requires an aerial lifting your ECB (DAir, NAir, or UAir?) to even reach side plats.​

​

Falco - ALL DI:​

0%+: Mix of Nair MOC, Dair TC, and rising up-air to cover in-place options.​

Fox - ALL DI:​

0-20%: Nair MOC​

20%+: Same as Falco​

​

​

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This is obviously incomplete but hopefully can still help in the listed situations.