Game Over - Return of Ganon! Support Thread of the classic Demon King! - (OP stepping down, thread open for take over)

[Curious Villager]

Ganon​

Who is Ganon?​

Ganon is the original form of Ganondorf who first appeared in the original Legend of Zelda for the NES.
This form of Ganon has also appeared in many other Zelda games such as A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Four Swords Adventures and A Link Between Worlds, Ganon also made cameo appearances in games such as Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Link's Awakening and the Wind Waker.

Overall, this form of Ganon has made many prominent and important appearances throughout the Zelda series, even moreso than his human Ganondorf counterpart. His most common appearance is that of an anthropomorphic blue boar with a Trident on hand (Though in some games he may even use two swords or fight on his own without any weapons)

As Sakurai seems to have no issues with including character counterparts in Smash.()
More over, Final Smashes are now also confirmed to not disconfirm playable fighters as seen with Samus appearing in Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash as well as Chrom in Robin's final Smash. So Ganon can still be his own fighter regardless of Ganondorf's Final Smash (Plus the more popularly requested incarnation of Ganon is the Trident wielding one from A Link to the Past over the dual bladed one from Ocarina of Time used in the Final Smash)

Moveset

Ganon's signature weapon is the trident, which first appeared in A Link to the Past, in that game, Ganon used the trident to throw at Link like a boomerang while teleporting around in order to throw Link off and allowing the trident to make a more disorienting homing movement. It was used more prominently by Yuganon in A Link Between Worlds as a move to charge in towards Link. Ganon also has the ability to create rings of fire and summoning fire keese to send out after Link.

Some additional info on Ganon's moveset can be seen in this very well made artwork. (Do let me know who made this so I can credit them properly)

Spoiler

Spoiler: Moveset idea by Porygon2

Ganon

Flavor text: The Demon King Ganon is the true form of Ganondorf, appearing when the gerudo releases the might of his Triforce of Power. Ganon is the largest and heaviest character in Smash, but that doesn’t mean he’ll go down easy! Watch out for his massive damage, and the long range of his mighty trident. Also, while his walking and running speeds might be slow, his ability to teleport around the battlefield makes him more unpredictable than he seems.

General Playstyle: Ganon is a strange one. While you might think a demon in possession of the Triforce of Power would be a brawling brute, most of his battles in the source material have him teleporting around the battlefield and taking potshots at Link. Taking both of these personalities into account, Ganon in Smash plays best with careful spacing/retreating tactics, but keeps some tools that prevent him from becoming a helpless punching bag up close. Most of his moves benefit from stage control to maximize the hitboxes of his fist, projectiles, and his trident's sweetspot. Up close and mid-range, players will want to learn how to manage his grab spacing, superarmor frames, B and v-B charge storage, and the spacing of his dash attack and teleport.

The origin of Ganon's moves are shown next to the move name.


Misc/Gimmicks

Ganon has generous superarmor on his moves, and an ambient superarmor attribute akin to Bowser's "Tough Guy", "Triforce of Power". This prevents flinching from moves that deal less than 25 units of knockback, is increased when crouching in place, and is amplified further with his v-B.

Ganon is big, and so is his trident. Several of his moves have range comparable to Corrin and Simon/Richter.

Ganon blinks for his roll and spot dodge, making it impossible to see which option he is going for.

All trident moves have an electrified sweetspot at the tip. As well as dealing the most damage and knockback, the slight freeze frames give Ganon an additional opportunity for spacing. Trident attacks otherwise deal the second-best damage at Ganon's hands, and worst along the pole.


Neutral

• Jab (misc): 2-hit combo with the trident – an underarm sweep to a two-handed overhead smash.
• Rapid Jab (LttP): After the initial sweep, Ganon will whirl his trident overhead, smashing it downward on release.
• Dash (Various): Ganon performs a shortened version of the pew-pew-pew staggered teleport that also features in his ^-B. This causes him to blink out of and back into existence 3 times as he moves forward some distance. This can be used to ‘pass through’ fighters if Ganon's hurtbox blinks ‘out’ while on top of them, or to damage them when blinking ‘in’. These hits take the form of dark energy around Ganon, akin to Metwo’s neutral aerial, though the hitbox is smaller, leaving him vulnerable from above.

Tilts

• > (Various): A powerful trident poke with significant horizontal knockback at the tip.
• v (Various/OoT): Ganon brings his fist downward in a ground-pound attack. Significant startup lag, with superarmor just before and during the slam. The hitbox on Ganon's fist deals electric damage and decent diagonal knockback, while a hitbox slightly in front of him has a chance to trip.
• ^ (LBW): Ganon summons a multi-hitting pillar of dark energy on top of and directly above himself. Will scoop fighters upward at close range.

Aerials

• n (Various): Ganon blinks in place (no special hit/hurtbox properties), causing dark damage. A decent getaway tool.
• ^ (Various): Arcs his trident overhead. Fair juggling tool.
• > (OoA/OoS): Ganon blinks (no special hit/hurtbox properties), sending a blinking mirror image of himself outward. Relatively quick space control tool.
• < (OoT): Ganon sweeps his cape backward. Proper timing gives increased priority against projectiles.
• v (misc): Ganon thrusts his trident downward, and plummets with it. Can be used to drag fighters down as a suicide KO, but only if the trident skewers at the sweetspot, which generally requires very precise spacing due to its length.

Smash Attacks

• > (LBW): Ganon brings his trident inward to imbue it with dark energy, then thrusts it out. This is one of the most damaging smashes in the game, but has plenty of lag. While the attack is charged, there is a darkness hitbox on the trident with upward knockback (this generally won't combo into the main hit, however).
• v (OoA/OoS): Ganon charges dark energy like a hadouken, then slams his palm on the ground. Large hitbox which buries at the fist.
• ^ (FS): Ganon thrusts his trident upward, releasing a thunderbolt directly above him. Long, narrow hitbox with sweetspots at the tip of both the trident and the bolt. Slightly above Palutena ^-smash range, but it won't scoop upward.

Specials

• B - Din's Dark Fire (LttP): Ganon twirls his trident overhead, causing a ring of bat-shaped fire projectiles to swirl around him in a circular formation. The ring expands outward, reaching a max range about half the length of Battlefield, then back in to Ganon, who cannot move during the animation. The bats deal little knockback, acting more as a keepaway/gimping/combo-ing tool. With precise timing, smaller characters can theoretically jump between the bats. End lag, but fast startup allows for things like sweetspot v-tilt into B.

This move also has a "charge". If the whole animation is completed, Ganon will flash, and B can be pressed again to unleash a swarm of fiery bats with high fire damage and mild homing properties. Ganon can move freely while the bats are "charged", though he cannot store the charge indefinitely, as it will wear off after some time.​

• >-B - Trident Throw (FS): Ganon throws his trident like a boomerang. On flying, it strikes multiple times for high damage and minimal knockback, then zips back with a weak hitbox on its return. While the trident is flying outward, mashing B will cause Ganon to extend a palm and imbue the trident with blue fire, causing big damage when it hits. Ganon will remain in this prone state until the trident returns, however. Otherwise, Ganon can move as normal while the trident is out, though all of his grounded attacks/grab are replaced by a basic swiping palm move, and he cannot perform aerials.

The trident cannot be grabbed by other players, though it will clank with powerful hitboxes/projectiles, at which point it will poof back to Ganon.​

• v-B - Darkness Technique (LttP): Holding the move will cause Ganon to raise his cape, which sends a shadow creeping up him. Charging functions similarly to Cloud's Limit, though it is faster, only charges manually, and "partial" charge will drain over time. At full charge, Ganon gains universal superarmor up to a certain damage % for a certain amount of time. This effectively buffs his "Triforce of Power" attribute, negating its relative uselessness at higher percentages, and giving Ganon a shot at late stock victory.
• ^-B Teleport (misc/all): Ganon teleports with the blinking hit/hurtbox properties of his dash attack. Initial movement can start in 8 directions, with further slight influence over direction when Ganon is already moving. Holding the button moves Ganon further, with large max range. Starts up quick, with some end lag on release. Note Ganon can still be gimped from above and below when popping back "in". Ganon cannot act out of teleport and goes into freefall if he doesn't land on-stage.

Throws

• Grab (LttP/FS/OoT): Ganon's grab takes the form of the magical crystal that he has a tendency to trap princesses in. This appears in front of Ganon in a manner similar to Greninja's grab, tying it for the best non-tether grab range, albeit with slightly more lag than a standard grab.
• Pummel: Ganon shocks the trapped fighter with magic.
• >: Ganon performs a force palm of dark energy that sends fighters back a good distance.
• ^: Ganon levitates the fighter overhead before the crystal swells and explodes. Kill throw.
• v: Ganon smashes the crystal downward, Sends at standard follow-up angle.
• <: Ganon skewers the fighter with his trident and flings them overhead.

Final Smash

Couple of ideas:

• Malice Incarnate (BoTW): Ganon teleports behind the stage similarly to the new Giga Bowser, and becomes consumed with malice before shooting a massive laser across the battlfield.
• Dark World (LttP): Ganon creates a huge crystal that sucks fighters in, triggering a cutscene in which they are transformed into rabbits or monsters (depending on if they are a "good" or "evil" character). As they run around haplessly, Ganon looms behind and batters them with a big trident sweep.

Visuals

Though he holds it by default, Ganon's trident immediately disappears/reappears in a poof of dark magic for moves that would benefit from simpler animation, such as his v-smash.

When Ganon is KO’d (other than screen KO), a glowing triangle triforce piece pops out of his explosion (LoZ).

Colors: https://i.redd.it/gcnf9nu168811.png

Entrance (OoA/OoS/FS): Ganon breaks free of his seal, rising up from the ground.

• ^-Taunt (LBW): Ganon raises a fist, displaying a glowing triforce piece.
• >-Taunt (LoZ): Ganon strikes a vampiric pose with his cape, and laughs.
• v-Taunt (misc): Ganon pounds his trident on the ground, causing a deep ringing sound.
• Victory 1 (misc): Two moblins dance around Ganon, which he swipes aside to strike a pose.
• Victory 2 (AoL): Ganon faces the screen dramatically as he is overcome with shadow, his eyes bright.
• Victory 3 (misc): Back turned, Ganon twirls around dramatically, displaying a triforce piece that floats in his palm. If any of the Links and/or Zelda/Sheik was an opponent, he has two/three.

More info will be added as this thread moves along.

Supporters of Ganon.​

Smashboards members who support, like or don't mind Ganon in Smash Ultimate. This list included supporters from the Smash Wii U/3DS speculation days.
We currently have 117 supporters on board!

Spoiler

1. Curious Villager 2. Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma 3. Purrfect Cell 4. PsychoJosh 5. Tortilla Noggin 6. Arcadenik 7. Kirbeh 8. DarkAuraful 9. Xeno VII
10. nirvanafan 11. Luminario 12. Aussie the Shinobi 13. Diddy Kong 14. Zebei 15. P.Kay 16. Burruni 17. Oddball 18. Pacack 19. DJ3DS
20. Iko MattOrr 21. TCT~Phantom 22. GalacticPetey 23. DJ3DS 24. Tord the Red Leader 25. Jakor 26. Ondo 27. MasterWarlord 28. Geno Boost 29. Munomario777
30. Mega Tyrannomon X 31. Phoebee 32. DefinitelyNotSascha 33. Dalek_Kolt 34. PrinceGal3n 35. StormC 36. Icedragonadam 37. Lisbon Mapping 38. Mega Bidoof 39. Pacack
40. AncientTobacco 41. Cpt. 42. Kamiko 43. BluePikmin11 44. BridgesWithTurtles 45. Sobreviviente 46. Smash Daddy 47. ForwardArrow 48. andimidna 49. Toxicroaker
50. Haibu 51. Dark Phazon 52. The Drilling Juggernaut 53. Oblivion129 54. Kikwi-Kiwi 55. Spinosaurus 56. NocturnalQuill 57. TeenGirlSquad 58. Xzsmmc 59. Hexaped
60. Frontiers 61. Shalashaska 62. PixelPasta 63. Gengar84 64. Cyberguy64 65. JFM2796 66. 8-peacock-8 67. Armlesspuppeteer09 68. Topplox 69. Louie G.
70. Second Power 71. Phaazoid 72. Cobalsh 73. Rockaphin 74. lilt 75. Iko MattOrr 76. GalacticPetey 77. SmilingMad 78. PiChuChu 79. moneyfrenzy
80. Gooper Blooper 81. Reila 82. Legendary Spirit Tamer 83. Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma 84. Jakor 85. MasterWarlord 86. MrReyes96 87. TheZoologist 88. SEGAGameBoy 89. Standlord
90. Toucan_Man 91. Blackwolf666 92. Hydra of Chaos 93. Lisbon Mapping 94. L2 Sentinel 95. Octorox 96. The Legendary Beast 97. BronzeGreekGod 98. RetrogamerMax 99. Porygon2
100. Meta_X 101. psb123 102. thirsty-pocket 103. PlasmaSnow12 104. EXE-Acua 105. NintenEdgyMan 106. PheonixScale9094 107. Dreamking 108. Demonfunds 109. Donavitch
110. neoREgen 111. Iko MattOrr 112. Planet Cool 113. TheYungLink 114. NintendoKnight 115. ZenythSmash 116. Kingkridley 117. scoobymcsnack

A link for the original support thread from back in the Smash 4 speculation days.
https://smashboards.com/threads/classic-ganon-the-original-king-of-evil.326965/

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Don't have much hope for him actually making it, but I support regardless.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You got my support.

Assuming custom moves return, Dead Man's Volley also works as a neutral B. But the other ones could be basically Lightning(easier to hit with, less damage, cannot be reflected), and the other energy ball that splits if it goes far enough.

What's the thought about using his swords and trident among his various moves?

 

[Curious Villager]

You got my support.

Assuming custom moves return, Dead Man's Volley also works as a neutral B. But the other ones could be basically Lightning(easier to hit with, less damage, cannot be reflected), and the other energy ball that splits if it goes far enough.

What's the thought about using his swords and trident among his various moves?

Thanks!

I wonder if Dead Man's Volley could work as a part of his Smash attack? So the longer you hold on the side Smash, the more he charges the volley up and the faster it will go once it's released? Since the move would probably be dependent on him reflecting the attack back and forth and all. Though then again, that might turn a little messy...

As for the Swords, perhaps he could briefly equip those whenever he doesn't have his trident in hand, making him a bit more of a stance fighter but I'm not sure how feasible that would be in practice though....

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yeah, you know what, I'd be alright with this. I'd rather that Ganondorf finally got his own moveset but this is cool too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanks!

I wonder if Dead Man's Volley could work as a part of his Smash attack? So the longer you hold on the side Smash, the more he charges the volley up and the faster it will go once it's released? Since the move would probably be dependent on him reflecting the attack back and forth and all. Though then again, that might turn a little messy...

As for the Swords, perhaps he could briefly equip those whenever he doesn't have his trident in hand, making him a bit more of a stance fighter but I'm not sure how feasible that would be in practice though....

Well, we know he can fight with projectiles running around while he basically slams into you(his Zelda 1 battle), basically having no weapons in hand. Sure, it's an interpretation, and maybe a bit of strawgrasping, but the idea is he could be hands-free and summon his weapon. A stance fighter sounds better, though.

Basically, Down B to change weapons would modify his moveset, although I could see many moves just being animation swaps too. For instance, Down A could be akin to Grass Cutter(Link's Down A), but either attempting to trip with the Trident, or send them staggering with both swords.

He could still charge Dead Man's Volley by holding B, much like with Samus' Charge Shot. Only difference is he couldn't save it, due to the move's natural properties. As for Reflecting, my thought is that it'd be semi-easy to reflect if a disjointed hitbox is used(may be hard to program, but it does make sense), any Reflector can do so, but like normal, it'll break fast as the move gets stronger(I don't know if this property is in all SSB games, but I do know it's at least in 64. It's been a long time since I've tested that). Trying to reflect it back with a physical attack is harder, but not impossible. It'd require a bit easier timing than the old shield reflecting from Melee. While an active DMV is up, specifically Ganon's own, using B again swings his Trident, with low damage if somebody is hit by the Trident itself, but otherwise would reflect back his DMV as normal if timed well. One thought is that if a DMV is active, his Trident could reflect another type of projectile, some easier than others, being it's not a super easy to use hitbox(much like Ness' Bat).

Up B, imo, works fine as a general teleport, just not very high range. Forward B is a bit harder, though. There's multiple things one can do, especially considering he's the commander of multiple minions. He has a lot of magic as is. He could copy an attack related to a minion. Or he could throw his Trident in a straight line, like a Spear(basically a Moblin reference and their spears/arrow throwing). Other options include summoning a minion that could just charge at the enemy. Basically, there's a lot of stuff with potential.

One thought for a Final Smash is basically a bullet hell. He disappears for a moment, and statue shooters appear, much like the NES battle. I'm not sure if he should go invisible(temporarily, till the FS ends) or basically flicker(sometimes attacks miss him entirely, although combo moves have a far higher chance of hitting). Maybe like a 30% mischance.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I just wanted to drop in and pledge my support. We're still missing far too many characters like this!

My hope to see pig-Ganon only increased when they added him as a guest-neighbour (one of the first-ever such additions) in Animal Crossing: New Leaf's "Welcome Amiibo" update;

You can buy items from him, and ask him to move into your town, if you have the Smash Ganondorf or Zelda 30th 8-Bit Link Amiibo. As far as I know, it's this form's most recent appearance.

 

[Arcadenik]

I support Ganon. The SNES version is my favorite Ganon. That version could totally work in Smash if he was resized down to Bowser's size.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well, we know he can fight with projectiles running around while he basically slams into you(his Zelda 1 battle), basically having no weapons in hand. Sure, it's an interpretation, and maybe a bit of strawgrasping, but the idea is he could be hands-free and summon his weapon. A stance fighter sounds better, though.

Basically, Down B to change weapons would modify his moveset, although I could see many moves just being animation swaps too. For instance, Down A could be akin to Grass Cutter(Link's Down A), but either attempting to trip with the Trident, or send them staggering with both swords.

He could still charge Dead Man's Volley by holding B, much like with Samus' Charge Shot. Only difference is he couldn't save it, due to the move's natural properties. As for Reflecting, my thought is that it'd be semi-easy to reflect if a disjointed hitbox is used(may be hard to program, but it does make sense), any Reflector can do so, but like normal, it'll break fast as the move gets stronger(I don't know if this property is in all SSB games, but I do know it's at least in 64. It's been a long time since I've tested that). Trying to reflect it back with a physical attack is harder, but not impossible. It'd require a bit easier timing than the old shield reflecting from Melee. While an active DMV is up, specifically Ganon's own, using B again swings his Trident, with low damage if somebody is hit by the Trident itself, but otherwise would reflect back his DMV as normal if timed well. One thought is that if a DMV is active, his Trident could reflect another type of projectile, some easier than others, being it's not a super easy to use hitbox(much like Ness' Bat).

Up B, imo, works fine as a general teleport, just not very high range. Forward B is a bit harder, though. There's multiple things one can do, especially considering he's the commander of multiple minions. He has a lot of magic as is. He could copy an attack related to a minion. Or he could throw his Trident in a straight line, like a Spear(basically a Moblin reference and their spears/arrow throwing). Other options include summoning a minion that could just charge at the enemy. Basically, there's a lot of stuff with potential.

One thought for a Final Smash is basically a bullet hell. He disappears for a moment, and statue shooters appear, much like the NES battle. I'm not sure if he should go invisible(temporarily, till the FS ends) or basically flicker(sometimes attacks miss him entirely, although combo moves have a far higher chance of hitting). Maybe like a 30% mischance.

I just looked back at the original battle from Zelda 1. Perhaps that could be a part of his teleport special move, while he's in the middle of warping from one place to another, you can have the option to shoot some small projectiles around, it can help differentiate the move from other characters who also teleport around such as Zelda and Mewtwo while also giving him the option to land a projectile to his opponent while trying to recover.

That does sound like a more realistic option. Basically like Robin's sword changes, but having more control over that.

Reflectors do still increase damage yes. What if Ganon's Dead Mans Volley had more of a paralyzing effect though? (Like ZSSamus's plasma gun)

Side Special does have more freedom though, I thought about him either summoning the Fire Keese while leaving a trail of flames behind or throwing his trident around like a boomerang, like he did in ALttP.

Also, great to see more supporters joining in, I'll add you all to the supporters list!

 

[Wolfie557]

I have never been a fan of ganon even within zelda games so im mot surprised i dont find the potential appealing for smash. And ALBW was my first zelda game and currently my second favourite. (ok on topic post - check)


But I came here to say that when i move my phone back and forth slightly the good looking render of ganon right at the top looks 3D to my eyes. Its acc sick.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just looked back at the original battle from Zelda 1. Perhaps that could be a part of his teleport special move, while he's in the middle of warping from one place to another, you can have the option to shoot some small projectiles around, it can help differentiate the move from other characters who also teleport around such as Zelda and Mewtwo while also giving him the option to land a projectile to his opponent while trying to recover.

That does sound like a more realistic option. Basically like Robin's sword changes, but having more control over that.

Reflectors do still increase damage yes. What if Ganon's Dead Mans Volley had more of a paralyzing effect though? (Like ZSSamus's plasma gun)

Side Special does have more freedom though, I thought about him either summoning the Fire Keese while leaving a trail of flames behind or throwing his trident around like a boomerang, like he did in ALttP.

Also, great to see more supporters joining in, I'll add you all to the supporters list!

I was thinking the Trident boomerang could work for various directional attacks. But that's a possibility too. Fire Keese honestly completely slipped my mind. That's an iconic move he has, so it could work well as a Side B too. For some of his sword moves, HW's Ganondorf could potentially influence it.

As for the Teleport, I like that idea. It could be a custom, or you could press the A button and get off as many firings as possible. My thought is that it could kind of weak still, if only so it can't easily interrupt recoveries. Last thing we need is a super edgeguarding tool.

 

[Kirbeh]

Support. Still is and always will be among my favorite Zelda characters, and the one I want in Smash most.

 

[DarkAuraful]

Ganon would be cool. A trident user is definitely a type of pole armed weapon I'd like to see, and it seems like there can be a lot to design regarding the moveset and weapon since Ganon's in a fair amount of games. Count me in as well.

 

[Deleted member]

As unlikely as he may be, I support the classic form of the King of Evil.

Might as well tag @Burruni while I'm at it.

 

[Curious Villager]

I was thinking the Trident boomerang could work for various directional attacks. But that's a possibility too. Fire Keese honestly completely slipped my mind. That's an iconic move he has, so it could work well as a Side B too. For some of his sword moves, HW's Ganondorf could potentially influence it.

As for the Teleport, I like that idea. It could be a custom, or you could press the A button and get off as many firings as possible. My thought is that it could kind of weak still, if only so it can't easily interrupt recoveries. Last thing we need is a super edgeguarding tool.

Yeah that sounds good.

I've also dug up back to the old support thread from the Smash 4 speculation days and there's some good content there too.
https://smashboards.com/threads/classic-ganon-the-original-king-of-evil.326965/

Spoiler

Honestly, Ganon looks fine sized down. If I had some good concept art to work with, I might have even tried my hand in making a Smash friendly 3D model for Ganon too.

As unlikely as he may be, I support the classic form of the King of Evil.

Might as well tag @Burruni while I'm at it.

Thanks, I should probably tag @AncientTobacco from the original thread too.

 

[ssbashworld]

I am a big supporter of any other form of ganon being added as long as they give him a unique authentic moveset, I have pretty much given up hope that they will do this with the ganondorf we have now and this would be the best shot for this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I am a big supporter of any other form of ganon being added as long as they give him a unique authentic moveset, I have pretty much given up hope that they will do this with the ganondorf we have now and this would be the best shot for this.

I'm a Ganondorf main. Trust me, I love that he's a magical brute. The reason is is because he uses the Triforce of Power, so him being physically immense feels good. I understand why some don't like him as a clone, of course. Do note his OOT portrayal had him as more of a physical powerhouse than a weapon user. So it makes sense that he's more magic and strength-based in Smash. If it weren't for those various screenshots/artworks, he'd have been different. For better or worse, this is who we have.

Yeah that sounds good.

I've also dug up back to the old support thread from the Smash 4 speculation days and there's some good content there too.
https://smashboards.com/threads/classic-ganon-the-original-king-of-evil.326965/

Spoiler

Honestly, Ganon looks fine sized down. If I had some good concept art to work with, I might have even tried my hand in making a Smash friendly 3D model for Ganon too.

One thing that should be thought about is the aerial moves. Let's be honest, ground moves are easy for characters like him. Whether simple or complicated, it's not that hard to think those up.

One thought is that his Down Aerial could be that megaton stomp mentioned in the picture. It'd fit well for him. Maybe give it a specific range, meaning that if he doesn't hit the floor, he's still airborne and can jump(if he has one left) or use another aerial. Another thought related is that if he hits an enemy, he bounces up a little again, akin to Homing Attack or Falcon Dive. I feel that this could give potential combos. Also, heh at the Side B being one of the moves I suggested. XD

 

[Curious Villager]

One thing that should be thought about is the aerial moves. Let's be honest, ground moves are easy for characters like him. Whether simple or complicated, it's not that hard to think those up.

One thought is that his Down Aerial could be that megaton stomp mentioned in the picture. It'd fit well for him. Maybe give it a specific range, meaning that if he doesn't hit the floor, he's still airborne and can jump(if he has one left) or use another aerial. Another thought related is that if he hits an enemy, he bounces up a little again, akin to Homing Attack or Falcon Dive. I feel that this could give potential combos. Also, heh at the Side B being one of the moves I suggested. XD

Yeah I agree that his stomp should really be his Dair not only because we already have a few characters who do a ground pound attack for a down special () but I think he can have some other tools that are a bit more unique for the down special instead. Perhaps Dead Man's Volley or the ring of fire could be moved there.

As for his other aerials, perhaps he could spin his trident for his up aerial while shooting an electrical beam from Four Swords Adventures for his Fair and Bair. I should probably look into what else he did in the Oracles and FSA.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah I agree that his stomp should really be his Dair not only because we already have a few characters who do a ground pound attack for a down special () but I think he can have some other tools that are a bit more unique for the down special instead. Perhaps Dead Man's Volley or the ring of fire could be moved there.

As for his other aerials, perhaps he could spin his trident for his up aerial while shooting an electrical beam from Four Swords Adventures for his Fair and Bair. I should probably look into what else he did in the Oracles and FSA.

Yeah. In Oracles, he was "Mindless Beast Ganon", if you will.

But seriously, that sounds really neat. He does use electricity in Ganondorf form. Maybe a fire beam for one of his side airs? He has enough elements(much like Giga Bowser), so that could make it interesting. Variety is nice, even if it's aesthetics only. Sometimes a little bit of extra fluff can really make a character shine/entice some people.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah I agree that his stomp should really be his Dair not only because we already have a few characters who do a ground pound attack for a down special () but I think he can have some other tools that are a bit more unique for the down special instead. Perhaps Dead Man's Volley or the ring of fire could be moved there.

As for his other aerials, perhaps he could spin his trident for his up aerial while shooting an electrical beam from Four Swords Adventures for his Fair and Bair. I should probably look into what else he did in the Oracles and FSA.

Yeah. In Oracles, he was "Mindless Beast Ganon", if you will.

But seriously, that sounds really neat. He does use electricity in Ganondorf form. Maybe a fire beam for one of his side airs? He has enough elements(much like Giga Bowser), so that could make it interesting. Variety is nice, even if it's aesthetics only. Sometimes a little bit of extra fluff can really make a character shine/entice some people.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah. In Oracles, he was "Mindless Beast Ganon", if you will.

But seriously, that sounds really neat. He does use electricity in Ganondorf form. Maybe a fire beam for one of his side airs? He has enough elements(much like Giga Bowser), so that could make it interesting. Variety is nice, even if it's aesthetics only. Sometimes a little bit of extra fluff can really make a character shine/entice some people.

Yeah, I just looked back at some of the other Zelda's to see what else can be used from there. He also used Dead Mans Volley in FSA. In the Oracle's he has even more tools too.

Spoiler

I believe one of his attacks resembles that one beam splitting move Agahnim used in ALttP as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I just looked back at some of the other Zelda's to see what else can be used from there. He also used Dead Mans Volley in FSA. In the Oracle's he has even more tools too.

Spoiler

I believe one of his attacks resembles that one beam splitting move Agahnim used in ALttP as well.

Splitting move? Do you mean turning into multiple copies while each down an attack, with one using DMV and the other using the energy ball? ...It was either from a canon game or something cool someone made for Zelda Classic.

 

[Curious Villager]

Splitting move? Do you mean turning into multiple copies while each down an attack, with one using DMV and the other using the energy ball? ...It was either from a canon game or something cool someone made for Zelda Classic.

Perhaps it wasn't exactly like Agahnim, but he charges up a projectile that then splits into three after being shot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Perhaps it wasn't exactly like Agahnim, but he charges up a projectile that then splits into three after being shot.

That's the energy ball I meant. XD

Welp, miscommunication. Anyway, the hardest part feels like the Final Smash to me. Namely, how to keep it unique in concept but balanced. And no, turning into Cartoon or CDI Ganon is not an option. >.>

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

And no, turning into Cartoon or CDI Ganon is not an option. >.>

But... But! But that way he could make things BUUUUUUUUUUUURN!

 

[Curious Villager]

That's the energy ball I meant. XD

Welp, miscommunication. Anyway, the hardest part feels like the Final Smash to me. Namely, how to keep it unique in concept but balanced. And no, turning into Cartoon or CDI Ganon is not an option. >.>

Oh I see, my bad then. ^^

I think him turning into Calamity Beast Ganon for a Final Smash should work out alright. I mean, it was basically portrayed as the form that "one ups" Moblin Ganon in Breath of the Wild....

Perhaps have him turn into that and then release a large beam like it does in that game, being shot to the ground and then gradually raised up. Then reverting back into Moblin Ganon.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

All this time this been up and no one tagged Ganon's biggest supporter yet @Burruni?

For shame mates, for shame.

 

[Curious Villager]

All this time this been up and no one tagged Ganon's biggest supporter yet @Burruni?

For shame mates, for shame.

@Xeno VII did tag him actually. I should probably look further through the old Ganon support threads and see what other members actively supported Ganon and tag them too.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

@Xeno VII did tag him actually. I should probably look further through the old Ganon support threads and see what other members actively supported Ganon and tag them too.

Whoops, looks like I've done goof'd.

Oh well, might as well add me since I'm cool with the idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh I see, my bad then. ^^

I think him turning into Calamity Beast Ganon for a Final Smash should work out alright. I mean, it was basically portrayed as the form that "one ups" Moblin Ganon in Breath of the Wild....

Perhaps have him turn into that and then release a large beam like it does in that game, being shot to the ground and then gradually raised up. Then reverting back into Moblin Ganon.

I have yet to see Calamity Ganon beyond the previews of the game. >.< That said, he's a good choice, and fitting since Ganondorf isn't in BOTW to my knowledge.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Count me in! I still want Impa more, but Ganon would also be an awesome addition. Hope they can both get in.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm a Ganondorf main. Trust me, I love that he's a magical brute. The reason is is because he uses the Triforce of Power, so him being physically immense feels good. I understand why some don't like him as a clone, of course. Do note his OOT portrayal had him as more of a physical powerhouse than a weapon user. So it makes sense that he's more magic and strength-based in Smash. If it weren't for those various screenshots/artworks, he'd have been different. For better or worse, this is who we have.

I accept that Ganondorf will always be a clone of Captain Falcon... but I wish he could move faster like he used to in Melee. That was my favorite Ganondorf in the whole Smash series.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I accept that Ganondorf will always be a clone of Captain Falcon... but I wish he could move faster like he used to in Melee. That was my favorite Ganondorf in the whole Smash series.

Although doesn't he hit much harder now? That said, his Forward A is far better in Brawl/4, imo. The immense power behind it...

Anyway, Ganon costumes. Besides his traditional NES blue, I could see a more black coloring based upon the fact he was in Zelda II, and maybe a shadow color akin to Dark Link. Not sure what color eyes.

 

[Curious Villager]

Although doesn't he hit much harder now? That said, his Forward A is far better in Brawl/4, imo. The immense power behind it...

Anyway, Ganon costumes. Besides his traditional NES blue, I could see a more black coloring based upon the fact he was in Zelda II, and maybe a shadow color akin to Dark Link. Not sure what color eyes.

I think giving Ganondorf back his speed from Melee with his power from Smash 4 would make him a more fun character to play as. I just played as him again, he's strong, but a little too slow.

For Pallet Swaps, how about these.

* Default (A Link to the Past/A Link Between Worlds look)
* NES Ganon
* Four Swords Adventures Ganon
* Yuga Ganon
* Ganondorf
* Calamity Ganon
* Oracles Ganon
* Demise

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ganon could always be a Final Smash fighter if size is going to be an issue for him. Ocarina of Time Ganon is quite tall himself, possibly being taller than even Giga Mac, but he'd fall short of rivaling Giga Bowser's size.

Much like with all the other transformation Final Smashes, Ganon would be impervious to flinching, but would still take damage from attacks; taking damage would also shorten the Final Smash duration by at least 2 seconds. Ganon's attacks would also deal greater damage than what Ganondorf can deliver, meaning that any smash attacks that he uses can potentially make 1-hits KOs when fully charged.

Ganon's Hyrule Warriors incarnation could also work as a Final Smash fighter, but the fact that that Ganon incarnation is from a spin-off title does hurt that chance.

Spoiler: Hyrule Warriors Ganon

 

[Arcadenik]

I would like this recolor from the Oracle games. Ganon is still blue but his clothes are all black with bits of blue.

 

[Curious Villager]

Ganon could always be a Final Smash fighter if size is going to be an issue for him. Ocarina of Time Ganon is quite tall himself, possibly being taller than even Giga Mac, but he'd fall short of rivaling Giga Bowser's size.

Much like with all the other transformation Final Smashes, Ganon would be impervious to flinching, but would still take damage from attacks; taking damage would also shorten the Final Smash duration by at least 2 seconds. Ganon's attacks would also deal greater damage than what Ganondorf can deliver, meaning that any smash attacks that he uses can potentially make 1-hits KOs when fully charged.

Ganon's Hyrule Warriors incarnation could also work as a Final Smash fighter, but the fact that that Ganon incarnation is from a spin-off title does hurt that chance.

Spoiler: Hyrule Warriors Ganon

The thing with Final Smash characters though, aren't they usually just powered up clones of the original characters? With the exception of the likes of Mega Charizard X and Yoshi's Super Dragon, but even then, they have very limited attacks.

I mean, I suppose that's still better than what we are stuck with right now (Captain Falcon's Final Smash, except without the flashy cutscene and a paralyzing effect at the beginning, basically) but I'd still like to see Sakurai try and get Moblin Ganon working though, but I guess that's the next best thing...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The thing with Final Smash characters though, aren't they usually just powered up clones of the original characters? With the exception of the likes of Mega Charizard X and Yoshi's Super Dragon, but even then, they have very limited attacks.

I mean, I suppose that's still better than what we are stuck with right now (Captain Falcon's Final Smash, except without the flashy cut scene and paralysis at the beginning, basically) but I'd still like to see Sakurai try and get Moblin Ganon working though, but I guess that's the next best thing.

Right now, Beast Ganon is just a mere offensive attack Final Smash. If making Ganon a standard fighter is too much of a hassle, then making Ganon a playable Final Smash fighter is basically the next best option. After all, if Ganon is more powerful than Ganondorf, the developers would have to find a way to keep his power in check for the standard fighter status. But if Ganon is a Final Smash fighter, then you can pretty much go all out with the overwhelming attack power, much like with how Giga Mac was handled.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Wow no one made a thread for this?
Weird.
Oh, and @Burruni


Big fan of the big guy. Would love to see him added and his trident. Would actually be a zelda character I might enjoy playing

 

[Curious Villager]

Right now, Beast Ganon is just a mere offensive attack Final Smash. If making Ganon a standard fighter is too much of a hassle, then making Ganon a playable Final Smash fighter is basically the next best option. After all, if Ganon is more powerful than Ganondorf, the developers would have to find a way to keep his power in check for the standard fighter status. But if Ganon is a Final Smash fighter, then you can pretty much go all out with the overwhelming attack power, much like with how Giga Mac was handled.

So basically what Sakurai sort of did with Ridley, couldn't get him quite right as a playable character, so he made him a boss character that could join you like a cpu team mate with animations like a playable character. Except for Ganon it would be as a controllable Final Smash. I suppose I could see that as a compensation type of thing if Sakurai couldn't get him to work as his own fighter...