Further De-Cloning Ganondorf (Ideas)

[_Ganondorf_]

Hi all!

I thought it would be a cool idea to create a thread solely for ideas to make Ganon a more unique character and perhaps a more viable one as well.

Note: This is not meant to completely overhaul Ganondorf (unless you want too), I love playing as PM's version of Ganondorf and I would only like it to see it improve where needed.

Now as a start I would like to show this: http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-sword-mode-for-projectm.342640/

That is a mod for PM allowing Ganon to pull out his sword using the Down Taunt, the main focus of the mod is to create a balance between "Sword" mode and "Fist" mode. Its made by a member of the PMBR named Ashingda and it is quite balanced and its really fun, I recommend it to any Ganon player to try out.

Although that mod is great I still think Ganon should remain mostly the same but replace his more useless moves with better ones (some of which I'll borrow from the mod I posted)

1. Aerials:
These are without a doubt Ganon's "bread & butter" I think most Ganon mains know this and would not want to lose any of them. For myself though I think Nair is the weak link. Both in terms of play and of fitting the character of Ganon, by that I mean I could totally see Ganon preforming all his aerials in some form in a LOZ game but I cant see Nair, its too flashy and very nimble looking something I cant imagine Ganon doing.

Frankly I wouldn't mind it staying the same but I think a better option can be implemented.

Nair- Idea A: a sword swing (like in the video above). Whether Ganon is holding the sword at all times or he pulls it out of thin air (like Kirby's Hammer, Peach's Frying pan, tennis racket etc.) it would function the same, a nice mid range swing covering some of his front and bottom would make a very nice spacing move.

Nair- Idea B: Mewtwo's Nair, since the days of Melee I always thought that move totally fits Ganon. It reminds me of OOT Ganon so much and is just a great "wizardy" looking move, it could lead into combos or just be a good spacing move.

2. Specials:
These are a mixed bag, obviously Flame Choke is an amazing move and totally fits Ganon, Wizard's Foot is an amazing move but kinda of doesn't fit Ganon's character, Dark Dive is just a weird move to imagine Ganon preforming and Warlock punch is an atrocious abomination on all fronts and should burn in hell forever!

Now all kidding aside I think there are better alternatives to be had to some of these moves.

Dark Dive: In the video I posted Ganon's Up B has him swing his sword around him as he rises in almost a complete circle, this is great against edge guarding and something I think any Ganon player would like to have in his arsenal.

Wizard's Foot: an amazing move with no real problems except aesthetic ones. In the video shown above instead of his foot Ganon uses his sword in a thrusting motion in front of him. This would still function the same except now it has a longer reaching hitbox and is more fitting to the character. (Note: if the longer hitbox is a problem, Ganon could be made to hold the sword closer to his body with only some of it sticking out in front of him).

Warlock Punch: sigh..... such a horrible move, This needs to go! Unfortunately the PMBR stated no projectiles can be added to a character that doesn't posses an article for one. The best idea I saw was in the video above as fake projectile that gets weaker the further it gets and is followed by an optional sword swing. I'm sure many of you have great ideas for other replacements and I would love to read them.

3. Neutral A & Tilts:
Not many problems with these moves but there are a few better alternatives.

Jab: I personally like his Jab, but I cant deny how much better the Jab in the mod/video I posted is. Its a forward arching swing of his sword that covers more distance and is a better spacing move, Either way ill be happy with both.

Forward Tilt: Amazing move and it should never ever change!

Up Tilt: The new Up tilt PMBR gave him was a very welcomed change and I use it often enough, but the video above showed a better alternative. Its a fake projectile moving in an upwards arch covering some of Ganon's front and is head, great for juggling and setting up combos. I'll be happy with either one.

Down Tilt: Nothing wrong with it but nothing too great, on the other hand the down tilt in the mod/video is a great set up move and can be used as a nice juggle, taking inspiration from OOT this move fits great for Ganon and would make a very good move in Ganon's arsenal.

4. Smashes:
These are in my view are Ganon's biggest weaknesses, they don't fit his character whatsoever and are not good moves as well. If these moves were to change for the better I highly doubt many Ganon players would be upset.

Forward Smash: A short distance elbow strike that is hard to hit with and is punishable if missed, a better alternative is shown in the video/mod above its a forward thrust of his sword, it functions exactly the same as his elbow with also being able to be tilted in an angle up or down but gives it a much needed range increase.

Down Smash: Such a useless move too slow and it has horrible range, the video above makes it a slow 2 spin sword move that covers a good amount of space on both of Ganon's sides.

Up Smash: Although this move has a really nice DACUS its still extremely situation based and completely doesn't fit Ganon. The mod/video above taking inspiration form Skyward Sword has Ganon lift his sword up in a small arch and summoning lightning above him. the small arch in front of Ganon allows him to carry opponents into the real strike and the lightning above causes an extra hitbox for opponents to be hit by. Its not that powerful of move KOing usually above 130% but its a great tool to use.

5. Grab & Throws:
Since this thread is for ideas how to further De-clone Ganondorf I think just aesthetic changes to his throws are needed with maybe a greater KO potential. To this day it still looks horribly weird seeing Ganon throw his opponents like C. Falcon, so I think just more fitting animations will add a much needed flair and uniqueness.

BUT Ganon's grab range should most definitely be increased! With such long arms it boggles my mind how short his grab range is, and its almost impossible to grab out of shield with him. For such a slow and big character I think Ganon needs a longer grab range by default.

Thanks for reading all of this, and I hope it gave you some cool ideas of your own. On a different thread on the Ganondorf character discussion forum, a member of the PMBR named Shell stated quote; "Ganondorf is one of my priorities for next release, fyi. :>" this had me really excited and maybe this thread and our collective ideas can help give him and the PMBR some idea or at least a view point to what Ganon players would like to see. So post all your idea here and please lets have fun with this, post your dream move set or try and make it Project M viable. Either way have fun with this.

As a final question would you (if you want to see Ganon use a sword that is):

A- Prefer Ganon hold his sword out at all times but only use it for the applicable moves?
OR
B- Have Ganon pull out his sword form thin air (like Kirby's hammer, Peach's Fsmash, Diddy Kong's Peanut Gun etc.) and use it when applicable?

 

[Veishi336]

Already a whole thread like this sir. Please look through the fourms and make sure that you do not post a whole thread similar to another. You can most definitely talk about this on the Clone engine thread as well
Here is the original thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-sword-mode-for-projectm.342640/

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Already a whole thread like this sir. Please look through the fourms and make sure that you do not post a whole thread similar to another. You can most definitely talk about this on the Clone engine thread as well
Here is the original thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-sword-mode-for-projectm.342640/

I apologize, I didn't know there was already a thread about this.

But link you posted is for the same one I did. I was actually one of the main testers of that mod. I made this thread mainly just so Ganon players can give ideas for a more unieqe Ganon. Also I didn't think the Clone engine thread would be appropriate for this since this is to further de-clone Ganon not use a clone spot for him.

 

[Veishi336]

Well hey no true harm done. If the mods and anyone doesn't have a problem with it here then go about doing what you do dude. Just letting you know.

 

[teluoborg]

Well I didn't know about this sword mode thing so the thread is welcome, tho this "balance between fist and sword modes" is bull**** when there's absolutely no good reason to not choose sword over fist.
I mean you get range and disjoint without losing anything.
It's clearly overpowered and shouldn't be used in competitive play. It can be fun to screw around with it in friendlies though.

If you want to discuss individual moveset changes I suggest you go do in this thread, where a lot of others suggestions have been made (especially about neutral B) :
http://smashboards.com/threads/ganon-meta-thread-discussions-and-suggestions-go-here.341662/

Imo the only moves that should be changed right now are neutral B and maybe Dsmash, because those are the only moves I never use with Ganon. I really don't want to see any changes to Nair because it's actually one of Ganon's best moves.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Well I didn't know about this sword mode thing so the thread is welcome, tho this "balance between fist and sword modes" is bull**** when there's absolutely no good reason to not choose sword over fist.
I mean you get range and disjoint without losing anything.
It's clearly overpowered and shouldn't be used in competitive play. It can be fun to screw around with it in friendlies though.

If you want to discuss individual moveset changes I suggest you go do in this thread, where a lot of others suggestions have been made (especially about neutral B) :
http://smashboards.com/threads/ganon-meta-thread-discussions-and-suggestions-go-here.341662/

Imo the only moves that should be changed right now are neutral B and maybe Dsmash, because those are the only moves I never use with Ganon. I really don't want to see any changes to Nair because it's actually one of Ganon's best moves.

I agree with you about the sword mode. It is OP compared to Fist Mode (not in competitive play though, I play people with the mod and its really not OP in the grand scheme of things) that is mostly because Fist mode should be faster in the mod, But the mod isn't too balanced. In Sword mode you lose attack speed and get more lag and some moves have less KO power, but you gain reach and some great moves. so there is some trade off.

The problem is once you use the mod you actually notice (if you didnt already) how much better Ganon can be with longer reaching Smashs, and his real ones become a chore to use in comparison.

And I dont want that mod to replace current Ganon i was borrowing ideas from it to replace Ganon's more useless moves. And Nair isnt bad, and like I said i wouldn't mind it staying on Ganon forever I just dont use it alot... maybe i should lol.

To make Ganon a better character competitive and from a design standpoint I think all Smashs should change to either a sword or magic based move. And I really think the Down tilt in this mod can totally fit Ganon's move set. Also his recovery is 100 times better with the sword, it really helps against edge guarding. So i think some sort of defense against edge guarding should be implemented. And a longer reaching grab.

To summarize:

What Ganon really NEEDS is:

1. Better, longer reaching Smashs

2. A better recovery against edge guarding.

3. A actually useful Neutral B

4. A longer reaching Grab

What I WANT for him though is:

1. That awesome Down Tilt form the mod i posted

2. More unique animations that differ from C. Falcon on every possible move and throw.

And ill post this in the thread you linked thank you!

 

[King of Hoboz]

So, after some salty sets where I was playing against Ganon, I had a brilliant idea. Anyone remember Lex Luthor and his power in injustice? Why doesn't Ganon replace his neutral b with a dark aura that shields him from the knock back of the next attack. It'd be pretty Ganon like, Grant him a useful out to some forms of pressure and projectiles. Mind you, it'd probably be best with a cool down, or gash that'd be broke.

 

[RomeDogg]

Ganon doesn't need to be changed anymore especially not his neutral b. The reward of landing that in competitive play is priceless.

 

[teluoborg]

Do you even know what "competitive play" means ?
This suggestion is very interesting imo, I'm copying it in the meta thread to discuss it.

 

[Yanoss1313]

am i the only person that thinks ganon should be able to like... go super sayan or something? >.>

 

[Chesstiger2612]

i would want different animations for ganon + a different neutral b in regular PM. Down-taunt sword mode would also be good, although I would change swordmode a bit since Ganons aerials are a bit too much Ike imho

 

[Generically Epic]

I think he is rather decloned as it is, but there are a couple ideas that could be done to change him a little more from Falcon without upsetting Ganon mains.
I liked vBrawl's UpSmash and I honestly think they should have kept it that way. It looks cooler, more powerful, and does the same thing. If someone has a file to change the way it looks back, I'd like it. I don't think changing the aesthetics would make old Ganon mains unhappy.
Speaking of Ganon main's, no Ganon main uses the special (B attack) seriously. I would love his Neutral B to B a projectile attack, a ball of light. I think Brawl minus really got the idea right with their B attack, two options- combo projectile or insta-death, if either player choose wrong and they were f'd in the a. It was all about super prediction. Say a falco predicted the projectile and ganon knew falco would predict him trying to reflect it... PUNCH! DEATH! Let's say falco got the projectile prediction right and reflected it, now ganon is going to be combo'd to hell. But if Falco shielded the punch, Ganon would die from the shield knockback. But in this game, the brawl minus version is too powerful. I'd be fine with him just doing a small projectile similar to wolf's or zsuit's b: slow, doesn't go far, could have a long hitstun, used for combos. Heck if they wanted, they could have him able to cancel out of it into his normal warlock punch.
TL:DR- Put back Vbrawl's upsmash and change his warlock punch into a projectile.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I would love his Neutral B to B a projectile attack, a ball of light

A ball of purple dark&evilness, you mean. Since every of Ganons B-moves needs to be purple
EDIT: Good ideas btw

 

[_Ganondorf_]

http://s899.photobucket.com/user/Muzumush/embed/slideshow/Ganondorf move ideas

These are just ideas how to make Ganon more visually unique but can keep his moves functionally virtually the same (except his Dsmash possibly which imo should change a bit in functionality) I think most of these changes would please old Ganon mains and those who want a more unique Ganon.

 

[Yanoss1313]

http://s899.photobucket.com/user/Muzumush/embed/slideshow/Ganondorf move ideas

These are just ideas how to make Ganon more visually unique but can keep his moves functionally virtually the same (except his Dsmash possibly which imo should change a bit in functionality) I think most of these changes would please old Ganon mains and those who want a more unique Ganon.

I like the idea you've got for his Dsmash.
but i'd be sad if i lost my current Usmash, the current one allows me to techchase with DACUS, while yours would miss many grounded/rolling characters. Also with the current one, if you scoop somebody off the ground with it at low %, you can hit with both hitboxes for like over 40% damage.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I like the idea you've got for his Dsmash.
but i'd be sad if i lost my current Usmash, the current one allows me to techchase with DACUS, while yours would miss many grounded/rolling characters. Also with the current one, if you scoop somebody off the ground with it at low %, you can hit with both hitboxes for like over 40% damage.

Actually the move can look like my idea, but function and have the exact same hitbox as his current Up Smash. Just because it may look different doesn't mean the hit box needs to change. I should've drawn the beginning animation for the Upsmash as well, it's hard to describe but I'll try: a scooping motion with his arms from his feet moving towards where his facing and the final blow would be 2 hits with his hands straight up with a darkness effect. This essentially allows the lower hitbox to still be in place while maintaining the double kick hitbox but replacing it with something visually like Mew2's Upsmash but can still function exactly like his current/Melee one.

Also didn't you like the idea for his new Fsmash? I think using the warlock punch animation there would be soooooo cool, and in a sense when they finally give him a new move we get to keep Warlock punch but have it be his Fsmash and we'll get to use/see it a lot more often.

Also I think implementing my ideas would be quite easy for the PMBR. Like the slight animation tweaks, the added darkness/lightning effects, even my suggested Up smash wouldn't change his playstyle or funtionalitly. or having Wizards foot be his hand instead, or WP as fsmash are really all just aesthetic stuff and wouldn't change his play style one bit. That's why I really hope the PMBR would use some or all of my ideas (long shot I know) cause I truly believe everyone can get on board with visually different moves that would function the same, no?

The only moves I think should change are-

Warlock Punch- for obvious reasons plus I want it as his new Fsmash

Down Smash- I really don't like the way it works, something like Charizard's or Mew2's Dsmash but both ways with the animation I suggested would be a lot better imho.

Up B- I don't want it to change really but I think if I had a persistent hitbox on it like Bowser's or Lucas' up b or maybe Mew2's Nair (maybe in a form of a darkness effect) would help protect Ganon a bit while he is recovering.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Actually the move can look like my idea, but function and have the exact same hitbox as his current Up Smash. Just because it may look different doesn't mean the hit box needs to change. I should've drawn the beginning animation for the Upsmash as well, it's hard to describe but I'll try: a scooping motion with his arms from his feet moving towards where his facing and the final blow would be 2 hits with his hands straight up with a darkness effect. This essentially allows the lower hitbox to still be in place while maintaining the double kick hitbox but replacing it with something visually like Mew2's Upsmash but can still function exactly like his current/Melee one.

Also didn't you like the idea for his new Fsmash? I think using the warlock punch animation there would be soooooo cool, and in a sense when they finally give him a new move we get to keep Warlock punch but have it be his Fsmash and we'll get to use/see it a lot more often.

Also I think implementing my ideas would be quite easy for the PMBR. Like the slight animation tweaks, the added darkness/lightning effects, even my suggested Up smash wouldn't change his playstyle or funtionalitly. or having Wizards foot be his hand instead, or WP as fsmash are really all just aesthetic stuff and wouldn't change his play style one bit. That's why I really hope the PMBR would use some or all of my ideas (long shot I know) cause I truly believe everyone can get on board with visually different moves that would function the same, no?

The only moves I think should change are-

Warlock Punch- for obvious reasons plus I want it as his new Fsmash

Down Smash- I really don't like the way it works, something like Charizard's or Mew2's Dsmash but both ways with the animation I suggested would be a lot better imho.

Up B- I don't want it to change really but I think if I had a persistent hitbox on it like Bowser's or Lucas' up b or maybe Mew2's Nair (maybe in a form of a darkness effect) would help protect Ganon a bit while he is recovering.

Yeah, i liked the downB too, just forgot to mention it, lol

and regarding the Fmash = Warloch punch thing. it was suggested on another thread (maybe by you?, lol, don't remember and too lazy to check) where i made my feelings known, (something about spontaneous sexual arousal )

Edit: and yeah, now that you've explained what you intended for the Usmash, i'm on board!

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Yeah, i liked the downB too, just forgot to mention it, lol

and regarding the Fmash = Warloch punch thing. it was suggested on another thread (maybe by you?, lol, don't remember and too lazy to check) where i made my feelings known, (something about spontaneous sexual arousal )

Edit: and yeah, now that you've explained what you intended for the Usmash, i'm on board!

Yeah it was me

I was too lazy check if it was you I "aroused" so I asked again lol.

And I'm happy you like the ideas, I was thinking pretty hard when drawing those moves so they wont affect how Ganon plays or their functionality to much (unless the PMBR wanted to). I LOVE! how Ganon plays right now, and as much as I would love him to be totally unique and have him use a sword I would miss our current Ganon too much. So I think just unique animations would make both old Ganon mains (like us) and people who want a more canon Ganon (like my self as well) would all benefit from these ideas.

If anyone else has cool unique animation ideas/tweaks I would love to read/see them, so lets post them here.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

I agree on Ganondorf possessing an alternative move-set by drawing his sword, pressing down taunt. The whole sword move-set was an unique idea and it suits Ganondorf, but Back Air seems odd for Ganondorf's sword move-set; it should rather be arranged to a stab, likewise Pit's B-Air, but obviously develop with a different animation.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ65CXfGoNw (Pit's Back Air shown at 00:42)

Down Tilt is rather likely to be part of Ganondorf's normal move-set's D-Smash, removing away the old one, which is not very useful.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCFk6T9wvpk (Electric Pound shown at 00:19)

Down Tilt for Ganondorf's sword move-set should be similar to the one shown in the video above (Electric Ground Pound) only difference, using his sword instead of punching the floor, taking similarities among Link's Final Blow.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6QDdOs65aM (Final Blow)

I suggest Neutral B get replaced by a chargeable lighting ball, like he does upon every The Legend of Zelda games, but only for Ganondorf's normal move-set; for his sword move-set I recommend lighting discs as projectiles, taking inspiration from Demise lighting discs attack, whereas it takes place upon Skyward Sword's final battle.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r580S90NECo (Lighting Discs shown at 3:39)

For example: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100415233429/zelda/images/2/2e/Dead_Man's_Volley_(Ocarina_of_Time).png (Lighting Ball)

The spring animation should be arranged when Ganondorf wields his sword and spring towards the opponent; his spring animation takes inspiration upon Twilight Princess final battle.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6HdMbyHr7A (spring animation shown at 14:45)

I think Ganondorf should as well as Mewtwo and Peach possess the floating ability, but for at least 3 seconds to balance his playing game.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3g8mtD9i8E (It's shown the final battle starts)

Down B should be replaced, adding the ability to reflect projectiles swinging his cape, like he does among Ocarina of Time final battle; Repelling Cape could be arranged for both move-set.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3g8mtD9i8E (Repelling Cape shown at 2:04)

I personally would consider adjusting Ganondorf's Flame Choke, making it a slightly longer and faster; adding the ability to grab (considering it a second grab) the opponent, similar to Bowser's Side B in Melee, only this time the player would have the chance to choose between throwing the opponent up or down for setting up different mix-ups or reads and instead of biting the opponent like Bowser used to; in Ganondorf's case it could be arranged to a continuously flaming choke as in every time the player would press the B button, Ganondorf would burn the opponent with dark flames.

For example: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090706023930/ssb/images/4/4b/Bowser_Koopa_Klaw_SSBM.png (Bowser's Forward B)

I think Ganondorf's normal move-set Dash Attack could raplaced, taking inspiration upon Little Mac's Dash Attack in the new installment of Super Smash Brothers, since it suits Ganondorf better; it could be arranged by making Ganondorf's fist animation similar to Wario's D-Smash earthquake effect.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70_ypdJS2I (Little Mac's Dash Attack shown at 1:32)

Ganondorf's normal move-set F-Smash has poor range and it's punishable if miss; I suggest It should be changed to a double punch attack, taking inspiration from Wind Waker's version of Ganondorf.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciTG9m2CuF4 (Double Fist shown at 11:14)

Up-B should definitely be removed and replaced by his teleportation ability, taking inpiration when Ganondorf tmerge into Zelda's body in Twilight Princess; Twilight Teleportation could be arranged for both Ganondorf's move-set, possessing the ability to attack afterwards likewise Mewtwo!.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj6vXjrZmfw (Twilight Teleportation shown at 3:36)

For grabs I don't have much of ideas...only the fact that Ganondorf could turn into twilight and merge into the opponents body, taking over possession; it could work well as a grab mechanic for Ganondorf.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj6vXjrZmfw (Twilight Teleportation shown at 3:36)

Ganondor's Up-Smash should have remained as Brawl version of Ganondorf's Up-Smash!

For example: http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki...-m/thumb/3/39/Ganon-03.png/228px-Ganon-03.png (Ganondorf's Brawl version Up-Smash)

I suggest all of Ganondorf's ground moves should have super armor as well as Bowser's, though!

Ganondorf's Side B (Spartan Kick) should be buffed, adding shield pressure mechanic; which would likely resemble Twilight Princess Spartan kick version, whereas Ganondorf uses to break Links guard!

I assure you, if Ganondorf's move-set gets improved and fully de-cloned from these ideas; he would likely be among the top tier list!

 

[GeZ]

I'll still never understand Ganon Mains saying he would benefit from a fireball. If you think about what he wants to be doing in a match it becomes apparent that a projectile wouldn't help him at all unless it was literally Falco's blaster.

His problems come from his poor movement, so changes to improve the character should first and foremost be aimed at improving his movement. None of this sword mode, and lightning ball malarky.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

I'll still never understand Ganon Mains saying he would benefit from a fireball. If you think about what he wants to be doing in a match it becomes apparent that a projectile wouldn't help him at all unless it was literally Falco's blaster.

His problems come from his poor movement, so changes to improve the character should first and foremost be aimed at improving his movement. None of this sword mode, and lightning ball malarky.

The purpose of this thread is to de-clone Ganondorf and improve his playing game, recovery and combo game, exerting his Side B as a start of a combo; which serves to set up different and better mix-ups as an improvement with the moves shown in the video above!

 

[GeZ]

He's not a clone. No character is a clone. Some moves have aesthetic similarities but no player who's played at even a moderately high level would call a character in P:M a clone or call for decloning. That's why these topics are never taken seriously. This thread, the one with the intention of overhauling Ganondorf with the word declone in the title, has been posted in the Ganondorf subforums at least two other times, and the most recent one got locked by a moderator because decloning is a counter productive and wrong discussion to have about a character.

If you want to change Ganondorf to be better, you need to improve his movement game and maybe his recovery. Not his normals and combo game, as those are already incredible.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

He's not a clone. No character is a clone. Some moves have aesthetic similarities but no player who's played at even a moderately high level would call a character in P:M a clone or call for decloning. That's why these topics are never taken seriously. This thread, the one with the intention of overhauling Ganondorf with the word declone in the title, has been posted in the Ganondorf subforums at least two other times, and the most recent one got locked by a moderator because decloning is a counter productive and wrong discussion to have about a character.

If you want to change Ganondorf to be better, you need to improve his movement game and maybe his recovery. Not his normals and combo game, as those are already incredible.

If you play The Legend of Zelda games, you would understand why Ganondorf in particular should be de-cloned. He still remains as a semi-clone character! Would you rather prefer a fighting game whereas every character has random moves not based on real moves deriving from their respective games? That's not how it goes! Why clone characters when they already possess unique skills and abilities among their respective game series? I would understand if characters with similar skills or abilities would be develop as clones or semi-clones such as Luigi and Mario. It's fair, since there's evidence of having similarities among their skills and abilities! Unlike Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, both are different characters from different game franchise...they possess nothing in common!

 

[GeZ]

If you play The Legend of Zelda games, you would understand why Ganondorf in particular should be de-cloned. He still remains as a semi-clone character! Would you rather prefer a fighting game whereas every character has random moves not based on real moves deriving from their respective games? That's not how it goes! Why clone characters when they already possess unique skills and abilities among their respective game series? I would understand if characters with similar skills or abilities would be develop as clones or semi-clones such as Luigi and Mario. It's fair, since there's evidence of having similarities among their skills and abilities! Unlike Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, both are different characters from different game franchise...they possess nothing in common!

But this is how Ganondorf has been throughout all of Smash. So he's not going to get changed. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm really just telling you that threads calling for decloning characters won't lead to changing the game as it's not a valid reason in the development team's eyes to change it. So this thread won't effect anything.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

But this is how Ganondorf has been throughout all of Smash. So he's not going to get changed. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm really just telling you that threads calling for decloning characters won't lead to changing the game as it's not a valid reason in the development team's eyes to change it. So this thread won't effect anything.

Maybe it would not affect anything in the development PM:BR eyes, but this ideas could also serve as further development among the next installments of Super Smash Bros. game series! Although, the video above shows the designs among further de-cloning move-set for Ganondorf!

 

[GeZ]

That makes even less sense. These are the Project M forums. Why would posting here affect anything about future Smash games? God knows Nintendo doesn't check here.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

That makes even less sense. These are the Project M forums. Why would posting here affect anything about future Smash games? God knows Nintendo doesn't check here.

Fair enough!

 

[Da-bomber]

Make his neutral b a 5 second timer that let him go through projectiles. Like jade in umk3.

 

[ShadowGanon]

am i the only person that thinks ganon should be able to like... go super sayan or something? >.>

You called?

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[Yanoss1313]

You called?

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lol, ring ring.

 

[DarkMagicX2]

I just had a crazy idea. What if the size of Ganon's shield was increased slightly? It could lower the frequency of getting shield stabbed at his feet, and the extra girth could give a larger window for powershielding projectiles. Two defense buffs Ganon could do with.

 

[Yanoss1313]

I just had a crazy idea. What if the size of Ganon's shield was increased slightly? It could lower the frequency of getting shield stabbed at his feet, and the extra girth could give a larger window for powershielding projectiles. Two defense buffs Ganon could do with.

actually, i like the sound of that, doesn't seem too broken.

 

[CORY]

something i was wondering about, now that we're on that topic:

is shield decay a universal constant? or do some characters have faster/slower shield decays than others?

 

[Spralwers]

I'd actually like Brawl USmash back. Comes out a little faster and has a wider hitbox, while still dealing between 19-22% damage and having really strong knockback. Gives Ganon a viable option for KOing people at the ceiling.

I also like the idea of increasing Ganon's shieldsize slightly. Don't know about the shield decay. I thought all shields decayed to zero equally, which means bigger shields shrink faster.