Fundamentals of becoming competetitive

[Greenpoe]

Lately I've been playing a lot more Project: M and finding others in my area who play and here's what I've come to realize about the game, just some general principles that are incredibly helpful to constantly keep in mind, so please post any other fundamentals you guys struggle with or have really helped you out:


1.Spacing is everything. Use your farthest hitting attack at the very edge of it, just far enough so they can't hit you. (Sheik's Bair, Marth's Fair, Ivy's Bair etc.). Done well, your opponent may complain that you're "spamming," and that they can't get a hit in, which means your doing it right.

2.Take risks. You might screw up, but there's no better way than trying. This mainly applies to friendlies where losses don't matter. In friendlies, set your pride aside and don't worry about losing (i.e., I think we're afraid to lose because you want to prove to your opponent that you're good).

3.Be cognizant of your playstyle and compare it to those of others in videos/streams. Recognize what you do more often than them, or what they do that you don't do.

4.Be aggressive! Long combos are landed not by playing it safe, but by keeping an offense up so they can't get a hit in!

5.Be aware of your approaches and theirs! This is 100% essential to adapting to your opponent's attacks and learning to beat it, OR learning to stop using x-move to approach and instead try something else.

6.Know your grab-game. There's a lot of different types of grabs in this game (standing, pivot, dash, B-move, jump canceled etc.). Know the exact range of each type so you can adapt to whatever distance they are at.

7.You can repair a worn out Gamecube control stick with nunchuk parts. This is pretty practical, since a good controller is important.





Happy Smashing!

 

[GMaster171]

One of the biggest things my friends need to learn is projectiles. Its really close to spacing, but its just based on the safety of the projectile, and how far away you are from your opponents max range. Most of the time my friend uses Ivy's razor leaf, he's either too far for it to threaten/pressure me, or hes too close and I get him before it comes out, or I get him in the end lag.

Ones I have problems with include that risk vs reward aspect of playing. Especially with Wolf and his side-b, I have the problem where I ditch combos cause I don't think it will hit, even though looking back, It would have easily.

Good topic btw.

 

[traffic.]

The fundamentals of competitive gaming are really a mindset more than anything else. People who are discouraged from playing by a loss during friendlies or practice are simply not ready to play competitively, because they are playing against themselves and not their opponent.

Practice
This is obviously the most important part of competitive gaming, but also the most misunderstood. Playing a lot, is not practice. Practice is reliant on the idea that you have a concept in mind and you are dedicated to applying your time to working on this one thing over and over until you are comfortable with it. Practice partners are huge, having a good competent partner will help you learn faster than anything else. Set a 99 stock match, and if for example you want to practice ledgegame and recovering, run off the edge every single stock until you are surviving longer and taking advantage of being off stage. Your partner will be simultaneously practising his edgeguard, and will have input as to what bad habits you have/are developing, and what else you can try. Switch roles, and your brain will immediately provide you with new ideas as you get a rounded experience. Focus on loose concepts and aspects of the game, and you will experiment with new and original styles with varying degrees of success. This is imperative to finding your own strengths and not relying on metagame/board discussion for what is "right or wrong" as whatever you are most effective with will be best for you. Practice is where you become a strong player, with a unique style that will give you the edge in competitive play.

Attitude
You are playing a game, and the best way to get better at it is to remove your ego. The way you want the game to be, is not how the game is. If you are damned and determined to make your Luigi the best Luigi in the world, and can't seem to beat the majority of people you play, whatever it is you are doing is not working. This does not mean you or Luigi are bad, or flawed, but simply that you are stuck on the fact that you don't get to win doing whatever you want. This is hard for many people to get over. Learn how the game works and how the mechanics operate. Practice these basics, and ignore deaths, ignore kills, ignore who beats who or which of your friends is winning more. You are playing to get better, and to get better you must only be thinking about getting better. If you want to learn how to shuffle, keep shuffling, and if you aren't getting it, keep shuffling. If you don't think shuffling is going to help you be a better Falco player, stop thinking that, and keep shuffling. You will get it, and you will be able to do it more consistently. If you stop practising because you are not succeeding, you will never succeed. You will never be an excellent painter if you give up after your first few paintings are awful and you don't understand it.

Meta-game
This is all too often expected to be a "what beats what" solution to people who are frustrated with losing consistently. X move does not beat Y move, every time. You will benefit from reading what moves are best applied in what situations, but until you spend the hard time practising those situations, you will never know why until you have done it repeatedly to find our what gives you the most success. Watching videos is a great way to see new techniques and combos you didn't know before, but this is not a solution to beating that player, or that character. Always take new ideas from the world of players, but always spend the time experimenting in order to understand why they do what they do. Knowing Sheik's nair nerfs ZSS's laser does not mean that nairing every laser is a good idea. When you are faced with a problem, read and learn about what else you can try, but never assume there is a move you can do that means you don't have to practise the situation over and over again.

Tournaments
This is where your practice (and you may have noticed it's all I ever talk about) comes into execution. You are no longer playing your friends, or your practice buddies, you are now playing where losses count. When you play for extended periods of time, you develop hard habits and constant routines that will no longer be applicable, and you will now be relying on your core concepts and experience to get you through the match. You are now playing your opponent, which means in order to truly be effective, you must be reacting to what they are doing. Reaction is where your muscle memory and regimented exercises take over and when your opponent acts, your reaction reflects the amount of time you spent practising. If you are surprised, and confused by what your opponent is doing, you must adapt quickly, and fluidly. To play smart, means that you are not committing yourself to your own actions, and are waiting for your opponent to give you the opportunity to defeat them. Your biggest strength in a blind match is that your opponent doesn't know what you are going to do either, so your practice and comfort with your character is going to shine through when you do the unexpected (read; not the basic meta you read everyone copy and paste on the forums) and force your opponent to react. Do not repeat yourself, and do not keep trying what is not working. To be truly effective, your plan must be no plan. Your plan must change with every circumstance, which means with every circumstance you must have a new plan. That thing you really wanted to try will get you killed if you dont know when to do it, and that will always be determined by your opponent.

Variety
Your first tournament explodes your mind as you will meet a huge number of different playstyles and opponents. You will lose in ways you have never seen before, and find yourself better at things you had no idea were even that good. This will test you in ways you can't possibly predict, which will be the truest tests you face. To have one teacher is to learn half of what he knows, and all of his bad habits. You will need to learn from every opponent you face, and to grow in this regard is to constantly challenge yourself to find new situations to test yourself. Having many practice partners will help you smooth out your bad habits and weaknesses, and really start to help you see the sweeping trends in your play and the core concepts of the game you need to focus on. You will benefit greatly from learning what you do well, and what your opponent does poorly, because they are very different ideas that can be easily mistaken for one another.

Your Mind
You benefit greatly from learning about yourself, and the way you act or react. To know yourself is to know your strongest enemy, and you will never know yourself until you learn to acknowledge your deepest fears and weaknesses. This acceptance will allow you to forgive yourself and others, which means you will be free to transcend the distractions of anger and fear. Conquering your ego and removing yourself from the equation is the biggest obstacle many will face when it comes to getting better at anything. Training your muscles will build strength, but you must train your mind in order to use that strength effectively. The reason we can be defeated by any opponent is that you will always be outnumbered by the second opponent living in your head.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Traffic that was a really good post, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Missing a big amount of detail on adaption though. If you can't adapt to a situation or learn from mistakes, you won't go anywhere.

 

[Vashimus]

Where is Bamesy? He would have a field day in this thread.

 

[Greenpoe]

Here's another idea:
Play with your first priority, trying as hard as you can, as simply not getting hit. If you're playing against someone you're significantly better than (i.e., you win most or all of the games), then this can be a way to make it still fun and exciting for yourself. Better yet, it'll force your opponent to learn to get better moreso than otherwise since you're spacing would be improved this way.

Or, if you don't know when to use a certain move that you don't use very often, then go through the match with that move constantly in mind so you can figure out when the optimal times to use it is.
Of course, you should have only one of these "mindsets" at a time. Sports coaches frequently tell their players to focus on just one thing at a time, or you'll get flustered. The same is true here.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Here's another idea:
Play with your first priority, trying as hard as you can, as simply not getting hit. If you're playing against someone you're significantly better than (i.e., you win most or all of the games), then this can be a way to make it still fun and exciting for yourself. Better yet, it'll force your opponent to learn to get better moreso than otherwise since you're spacing would be improved this way.

Or, if you don't know when to use a certain move that you don't use very often, then go through the match with that move constantly in mind so you can figure out when the optimal times to use it is.
Of course, you should have only one of these "mindsets" at a time. Sports coaches frequently tell their players to focus on just one thing at a time, or you'll get flustered. The same is true here.

This this this this. Playing avoidantly is a tremendous tool to pick up on patterns and find openings, and is something nearly every character is capable of in some fashion. It doesn't mean throwing random projectiles and just desperately trying to run away, and you still have to be smart about how you approach the strategy, but it's a great place to start. Look to players like s0ft or even HungryBox for inspiration on just how effective patient playing is.

 

[Greenpoe]

I saw a pretty good video that elaborates on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw

It's not the most polished, but if you catch onto what they're really talking about, it's great to know and they elaborate on what spacing really is. Basically, constantly keep in mind what their potential hitboxes (particularly the big and/or fast hitboxes), and the level of commitment that comes with those. Like once they jump, they're committed to being in the air for a certain number of frames with can open a window of opportunity.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If you've seen my other posts on meta-theory, you'd reckognise my use of and emphasis on the phrase Neutral Game; it's a lot of what lucien is talking about in combination with spacing. For example: "Don't think of it as 'when is he going to nair?' Think of it as 'in case he nairs.' It's safer." That's neutral game stuff.

What I see as going into a character's neutral game and thus their primary method of obtaining hits is, to reiterate:

Mobility: Any sort of weaving ability a character posseses; goes greatly into the baiting and spacing game and goes hand in hand with Stage Control simply due to its effect on spacing. Examples include dash dances, high gravity combined with fast jumps, the ability to stall in the air for a time of the player's choosing, and anything to create spontaneous movement. Fox, Falcon, and Lucas are examples of characters with excellent mobility.

Coverage: All things that go into the ability for a move to cover your character, including startup speed, range/disjointedness, invincibility, super armor, and anything else that can also be described as giving a move "Priority." Fox, Marth, Peach, and many other characters have good coverage; it's almost a universal in Smash, but there are some examples of characters with low coverage.

Safety: Frame advantage or disadvantage on hit, block, whiff, crouch cancel, or anything else. Moves with good safety followed by moves with good coverage can create "frame traps"or other such pressuring strings. Safety is one of the only traits that is really accurately and measurable because we can look at how many frames advantaged a move is on block, or how laggy it is on whiff.

Space/Stage Control: Ties in with Coverage and Mobility to designate the ability to manipulate the opponent's approach and movement options, but it is very possible to Stage Control in general without high mobility or coverage just by having long-range options. In the Lucien tutorial example, Fox's dash dance nair is an excellent stage control because it effectively means Fox has control over the entire area of his dash dance and sh nair range at once. Falco is another character with absurd stage control.


All of these traits can be examined individually or in combination to get an understanding of just how deep the interaction of players can get in the game.

The fun part of looking at traits like this is it can give you a lot of insight as to how characters play in general without being vague statements like "Ike is fast and also strong."

 

[yahyakun]

i agree with traffic. completely.

The most important part about being good at the game, is to not get predictive. stop doing the same habits.
for example i have a friend that plays with Bowser, and every time he is blocking and i attack him, he press A to shield grab me.he does it every time and i keep telling him to stop doing that cuz i "know" he is going to do it and i will just shield+down and evade his grab and them punish him hard.

i can beat a lot of my mates only using c stick, cuz i know what they do, how they think, and their bad habits.
another example is that i have a friend that plays with CF. he is kinda quick, and some what intelligent, but he keeps spamming Down + B. and that's too bad cuz i can predict him easily.

Variety is way more important than mobility and combo-ing.

 

[Jandlebars]

i agree with traffic. completely.

The most important part about being good at the game, is to not get predictive. stop doing the same habits.
for example i have a friend that plays with Bowser, and every time he is blocking and i attack him, he press A to shield grab me.he does it every time and i keep telling him to stop doing that cuz i "know" he is going to do it and i will just shield+down and evade his grab and them punish him hard.

i can beat a lot of my mates only using c stick, cuz i know what they do, how they think, and their bad habits.
another example is that i have a friend that plays with CF. he is kinda quick, and some what intelligent, but he keeps spamming Down + B. and that's too bad cuz i can predict him easily.

Variety is way more important than mobility and combo-ing.

Easily the biggest reason why I lose matches is due to grounding myself in a routine or predictable style, especially if it's one that works. And there's never a reason why something that works a lot of times is always going to work, so you constantly have to think to yourself: "Try something new, and then something new again, and then something new again".

The only times where I can imagine this might not be the case is certain BnB combos, and even then, a vast number of them can be broken depending on the match up.

I love all of what traffic said as well. Mindset in a competitive game is almost everything; the rest is simply technical work.

 

[yahyakun]

Yea thats pretty much it.

today i was playing against some friends, with a ps1 pad controller, and i was able to beat them all, just because they do not vary, and they are weak in mind games. and i told them how to get better, but they just keep doing the same and telling me that leave them alone, and them they get mad and we argue lolz.

Its nearly impossible for me to get better with them, besides, i become kinda worst.
the only way for me to keep playing with them is to let them win by being predictive (on purpose) and by "mistakenly" killing my self. thats the only way i can make them feel happy so that they do not stop playing or get bored.

so the only way to get better in my case, is to play with ppl better than me or to play against players with low ego. cuz my mates have a rly big ego. if they win they tell u " HAHA MOTHA FOCKER U SUX BALLs, I KNEED U IN UR *** IM DAH BEST, TEEHEE". and them u get mad and start arguing lolz.

 

[Arcalyth]

yahyakun, just routinely body them then tell them to step their game up. If their egos are as big as you say they are, they'll gladly accept the challenge. If they back away, then their precious egos aren't what they think they are - challenge them with the simple statement that they're running away from the challenge in order to protect their fragile feelings.

 

[Greenpoe]

I think in the situations where you're playing with people far worse than you (like yahyakun described), and it's a pretty common situation, especially if you're trying to invite new people into the game, then there's a few ways to deal with it. One way would be to pick a character that you're absolutely awful with and play against them with that character, trying your best. If they beat you, then switch to one your off characters, but not your best character. Use your best character very rarely (maybe a couple matches per smashfest) just to show that they can't beat your X character and as a way for them to get better and hope to beat that character someday. That way, even if you can destroy them with half the cast, they'd only think that you're unstoppable with just one character and still feel good enough to beat them someday.

 

[Jandlebars]

Yea thats pretty much it.

today i was playing against some friends, with a ps1 pad controller, and i was able to beat them all, just because they do not vary, and they are weak in mind games. and i told them how to get better, but they just keep doing the same and telling me that leave them alone, and them they get mad and we argue lolz.

Its nearly impossible for me to get better with them, besides, i become kinda worst.
the only way for me to keep playing with them is to let them win by being predictive (on purpose) and by "mistakenly" killing my self. thats the only way i can make them feel happy so that they do not stop playing or get bored.

I have a problem with my younger brother (and arguably, my older brother, too >.>) where I do make "mistakes" to give them the edge. Or at least make it so that if I do beat them, it's not by such a large margin that they rage-quit. :x
That being said, there are a few characters that they play as who actually are kind of menacing when they put their mind to it. Playing against a DK that knows how to space, or a C. Falcon that baits you and goes for a Knee combo can be difficult to retaliate against. It just doesn't happen often enough for me to be able to better myself in the end.

I think in the situations where you're playing with people far worse than you (like yahyakun described), and it's a pretty common situation, especially if you're trying to invite new people into the game, then there's a few ways to deal with it. One way would be to pick a character that you're absolutely awful with and play against them with that character, trying your best. If they beat you, then switch to one your off characters, but not your best character. Use your best character very rarely (maybe a couple matches per smashfest) just to show that they can't beat your X character and as a way for them to get better and hope to beat that character someday. That way, even if you can destroy them with half the cast, they'd only think that you're unstoppable with just one character and still feel good enough to beat them someday.

In my case, I play as characters like Peach and Ness, both characters that I never play as seriously.
I still end up beating them quite often, though. .__.'

 

[yahyakun]

yahyakun, just routinely body them then tell them to step their game up. If their egos are as big as you say they are, they'll gladly accept the challenge. If they back away, then their precious egos aren't what they think they are - challenge them with the simple statement that they're running away from the challenge in order to protect their fragile feelings.

I told some of them "i dare u to play with me without not caring about losing or winning" they said that game has no fun like that. lolz. i told them that i just wanted to practice so that when i go to a tourney i can do great at it. but they ignored me lol. at least that made them think about what i wanted and they didnt said much when they lost/win. it worked somewhat.

I think in the situations where you're playing with people far worse than you (like yahyakun described), and it's a pretty common situation, especially if you're trying to invite new people into the game, then there's a few ways to deal with it. One way would be to pick a character that you're absolutely awful with and play against them with that character, trying your best. If they beat you, then switch to one your off characters, but not your best character. Use your best character very rarely (maybe a couple matches per smashfest) just to show that they can't beat your X character and as a way for them to get better and hope to beat that character someday. That way, even if you can destroy them with half the cast, they'd only think that you're unstoppable with just one character and still feel good enough to beat them someday.

yeah im playing against players worst than me and new players to the game. not everyone is new but i have some that are old but they just arent that good. the new players i challenge them saying this "u win if u kill me one stock" and they say "yea but doint pick jiggs" (lol rest)
the older ones i try to tell them their mistakes in game, like for example if the do to much dashes i tell them "dont come with a dash again, im waiting that move from u", etc. and the normal skilled ones i just try to win 1 match and lose the other. i try to make things even. i some times pick wolf, cf, just a char that isnt that good.i almost never pick peach, i cant, they wont let me lolz.
and lastly, the ones that are on my lvl, the skilled ones from melee, i play serious and hard with peach and marth. but they are just 3 of them and they come to my house like once a month lol

I have a problem with my younger brother (and arguably, my older brother, too >.>) where I do make "mistakes" to give them the edge. Or at least make it so that if I do beat them, it's not by such a large margin that they rage-quit. :x
That being said, there are a few characters that they play as who actually are kind of menacing when they put their mind to it. Playing against a DK that knows how to space, or a C. Falcon that baits you and goes for a Knee combo can be difficult to retaliate against. It just doesn't happen often enough for me to be able to better myself in the end.

yea its hard to get better with ppl that are lower than u. but is fun sometimes cuz instead of playing to better urself u just play for fun and troll.

 

[traffic.]

Just start by giving them advice, "hey i notice you do [this] a lot in [this] situation, you should try this instead" followed by how to do it if they have any questions, the best way to encourage somebody is to show them how to do something better, ie; how to survive longer and not die to [whatever] every goddamned time.

if you are champ of the neighbourhood, trade off 1v1 matchups, doing bo3s, basically each friend loses 2 to you, then they switch, at which point after that they play each other in a bo3, winner plays you again, and then just keep going in that cycle of beat them each twice, and let them play each other. they will start to learn those broad stroke ideas that they can apply to a new situation, ie not you beating them in while they try to practice new ideas.

encourage them to just keep trying to survive longer and taking stocks against you, while giving them new techniques to practice against each other. they will get comfortable doing new things, while simultaneously learning defensive skills like DI and edge game against you. unfortunately with defensive skills, the only way to really learn them is to be relentlessly attacked by a pro, and slowly doing better. the offensive stuff you think up and work on will work its way in as you develop a safer neutral game, and new opportunities arise out of not being on the defensive all the time. it's only when you start getting those openings from a fierce attacker that you really learn the mix of offense/neutral/defense in a game, and when to play each role.

the most important thing is to tell them what they should be doing, and focus less on what they shouldn't be doing. they're noobins, until they start to see success develop from within, they will never start having it by trying to be less unsuccessful. if they are constantly dying to the same thing, tell them how to not die to it. if they are missing a grab opportunity, show them when and where to do it. always focus on the shoulds and insteads, it's absolutely paramount that you encourage the good habits, and NOT punish the bad habits. the constant loses will be punishment enough, they dont need to hear all about what they did wrong.

 

[Jandlebars]

Just start by giving them advice, "hey i notice you do [this] a lot in [this] situation, you should try this instead" followed by how to do it if they have any questions, the best way to encourage somebody is to show them how to do something better, ie; how to survive longer and not die to [whatever] every goddamned time.

if you are champ of the neighbourhood, trade off 1v1 matchups, doing bo3s, basically each friend loses 2 to you, then they switch, at which point after that they play each other in a bo3, winner plays you again, and then just keep going in that cycle of beat them each twice, and let them play each other. they will start to learn those broad stroke ideas that they can apply to a new situation, ie not you beating them in while they try to practice new ideas.

encourage them to just keep trying to survive longer and taking stocks against you, while giving them new techniques to practice against each other. they will get comfortable doing new things, while simultaneously learning defensive skills like DI and edge game against you. unfortunately with defensive skills, the only way to really learn them is to be relentlessly attacked by a pro, and slowly doing better. the offensive stuff you think up and work on will work its way in as you develop a safer neutral game, and new opportunities arise out of not being on the defensive all the time. it's only when you start getting those openings from a fierce attacker that you really learn the mix of offense/neutral/defense in a game, and when to play each role.

the most important thing is to tell them what they should be doing, and focus less on what they shouldn't be doing. they're noobins, until they start to see success develop from within, they will never start having it by trying to be less unsuccessful. if they are constantly dying to the same thing, tell them how to not die to it. if they are missing a grab opportunity, show them when and where to do it. always focus on the shoulds and insteads, it's absolutely paramount that you encourage the good habits, and NOT punish the bad habits. the constant loses will be punishment enough, they dont need to hear all about what they did wrong.

I do, in earnest, attempt to teach both my brothers what I've learnt from the Smash community, but in most cases they don't want to listen (think I'm patronising them or something, I dunno), or they don't want to spend the time.
But eh, what can you do? :X

 

[Isprayaxe]

Lately I've been playing a lot more Project: M and finding others in my area who play and here's what I've come to realize about the game, just some general principles that are incredibly helpful to constantly keep in mind, so please post any other fundamentals you guys struggle with or have really helped you out:


1.Spacing is everything. Use your farthest hitting attack at the very edge of it, just far enough so they can't hit you. (Sheik's Bair, Marth's Fair, Ivy's Bair etc.). Done well, your opponent may complain that you're "spamming," and that they can't get a hit in, which means your doing it right.

2.Take risks. You might screw up, but there's no better way than trying. This mainly applies to friendlies where losses don't matter. In friendlies, set your pride aside and don't worry about losing (i.e., I think we're afraid to lose because you want to prove to your opponent that you're good).

3.Be cognizant of your playstyle and compare it to those of others in videos/streams. Recognize what you do more often than them, or what they do that you don't do.

4.Be aggressive! Long combos are landed not by playing it safe, but by keeping an offense up so they can't get a hit in!

5.Be aware of your approaches and theirs! This is 100% essential to adapting to your opponent's attacks and learning to beat it, OR learning to stop using x-move to approach and instead try something else.

6.Know your grab-game. There's a lot of different types of grabs in this game (standing, pivot, dash, B-move, jump canceled etc.). Know the exact range of each type so you can adapt to whatever distance they are at.

7.You can repair a worn out Gamecube control stick with nunchuk parts. This is pretty practical, since a good controller is important.





Happy Smashing!

Thanks dude this helps a lot

 

[Isprayaxe]

I suggest that you don't practice with bots, they tend to be predictable most of the time. If you get used to playing bots for a while and then play a real player you will be doing the wrong things and they can DI out of your combos.

Also try to have a large variety in your opponents, if you only play one person that has the same tactic every time it is essentially the same as practicing w/ a bot. By playing many different players it keeps you adaptable and stops you from getting bad habits.

 

[Hashtag]

I suggest that you don't practice with bots, they tend to be predictable most of the time. If you get used to playing bots for a while and then play a real player you will be doing the wrong things and they can DI out of your combos.

Also try to have a large variety in your opponents, if you only play one person that has the same tactic every time it is essentially the same as practicing w/ a bot. By playing many different players it keeps you adaptable and stops you from getting bad habits.

Well, u don't normally practice against a bot to get ur combos down. If u are, then u shouldn't be. U can use bots to practice some basic reactionary skills and some spacing with attacks on a "moving" target.