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From Ganon to Manon (Updated.)

Merkabo

Smash Apprentice
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Merkabo
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I'm not going to lie. I've been playing Smash Bros competitively for about... 8 days. That said, I've been playing smash for funzies since I was a small child, way back on the good ol' n64. I'm realizing that many aren't really realizing his potential in the most recent iteration of smash and don't understand why anyone in their right minds would play him. Now, assumptive insensitive internet basement dwelling moma boiyz, I don't mean all players. Just quite a few.

Its probably worth noting that I don't have to time to go make this all in one go, so I'll probably update it semi-frequently, and if anyone has any tips or suggestions, this would be the thread to post it in. I'm hoping this will eventually spiral into something useful for people.

I'll start with the 10 golden rules.

Rule One : Ganoncide is always in your favor.
This is one of the several things that make Ganon a true monster near the edge. One small mistake and it could very well be game over, regardless of your opponents damage percentage. Take advantage of the ending lag of his or her attacks and punish them for it. In SSB4, Ganoncide always works for you. And come on man. That **** is badass.

Rule Two: A careful Ganon is a scary Ganon.
We all know how frustrating it can be when those speedy pansies are dancing across the screen and foiling every attempt you make of squashing them. Ganon is slow. We know this. It makes an attack is a true commitment. The solution is in needing to know how to punish the enemy for their movements and mistakes. If they roll away from you, Ganon is one of those characters that has many options in which to punish that. Down B or a well timed Side B can work wonders, but if you **** up and miss, it could be game. You should always think of missing that way. Remember! attacking without knowing whether or not you will actually connect will not win you games. Also , try to minimize your vulnerability as much as you possibly can. Being safe is your number one priority.

Rule Three: No one likes stale bread. (Or a stale Ganon)
When you only serve white bread, if you don't shove it down their throat, the **** will get stale. Stale bread sucks man. So you need to try spice your bread up. They think they know their **** about this restaurant, so, surprise your customer. You have so many different options. So use them. Never serve the same dish twice. Remember. unpredictability is a sure way to become a Manon today.

Rule Four: A Manon must learn to read his opponent.
This is really more of a preference over anything else, but I play my Ganon much like an investigative journalist operates. If you have the mind for this sort of thing, try to gather data as you play. The way he/she moves, the way she/he engages with you, but most important of all, the way your opponent reacts to what you do. Everyone plays differently, and you can't expect your cookie cutter combos to work on everyone. Real skill is adapting to the situation in the moment. To learn while you play is probably the biggest asset you can have.

Now, Ill update this more down the line. When I feel like it. (Updated!)
 
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DooshMcDoosh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
7
you might wanna make a list of his moves and the situations u can use it for. also some combos to rack up dmg and how to land ur kill moves against enemies would help too. beginner players want to also see the data to back up ur thinking on why a move is good or not. if u need help, just ask here ill check later.
 

nesHoarder

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I totally agree that people don't realize the potential of Gannondorf. Might I suggest the key strategy of using his side tilt put off a little distance, or send them off the side where you can follow up with a side b gannonside or an f-air meteor. Also, you can very frequently catch people off guard and chain a grounded side b to rack up some serious damage with no knockback
 

Bittersweet

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In all seriousness, I'm gonna agree with Kamiko. The biggest rule of Ganon, above any specific strategy using any specific moves, is to be careful. Ganon is a punisher; active aggression is dangerous no matter what attacks you're using. Avoiding accurate strikes and punishing inaccurate ones is how Ganon works best.
 
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Merkabo

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The rules don't really go in any particular order of priority. It was all a stream of thought.
 

Goobgoyle

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I'm definitely looking to use Ganondorf, even if not competitively. I'd really like to know if any of his smashes are viable. Oh, and his neutral B Warlock Punch. I've taken stocks with it, but it seems so situational that if you miss, it pretty much costs you a stock.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
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"Rule Two: A careful Ganon is a scary Ganon."

Ah, it's funny how this things need to be reminded. I was failing with Ganon in For Glory and was getting frustrated, but it was because I was playing aggressively. Big mistake. I main Lucario, which is why I'm used to be on the offensive.

After deciding to go the careful passive approach, things started looking up. I began winning most of my matches and even against higher ranking opponents such as Marth, Duck Hunt, Zamus and Yoshi. Ganondorf can survive even at high percentages and he has the advantage of dishing out a lot of damage with his attacks plus that awesome launching ability. I even managed to land a couple of Warlock Punches, best feeling ever.
 

Goobgoyle

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Landing Warlock Punches is arguably one of the most hype things about playing 'dorf. That split second delay before they go flying... It's like you're punching them with a fist made of pure salt.
 

DooshMcDoosh

Smash Rookie
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Oct 9, 2014
Messages
7
i think one of the ways i found landing warlock punch in a viable way is edgeguarding a ledge attack. in other words predicting the enemy will press a when he is hanging from the ledge and u pressing b to counter him. warlock punch has armor frames, apparently the more dmg u have on u the less armor u got. but i think it works good enough at all times against weak hits, such as ledge attacks which tend not to have high knockbaxk to them. ledge attacks also have alot of recovery to them at all times in this version of the game. u can even turn it around as u r doing this for the 1% extra damage and cool effect :D
 

Sykkamorre

Fights using psychology.
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Rule 4: Ganon runs for no man.

Don't go dashing everywhere. Walking as the lord of darkness presents many, many more options. Not to mention the psychological aspect of fear you shall instil in your opponent's heart.

Sprinting = DA or Usmash.
Walking = Everything.
 

GroundZero996

Smash Apprentice
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Rule 4: Ganon runs for no man.

Don't go dashing everywhere. Walking as the lord of darkness presents many, many more options. Not to mention the psychological aspect of fear you shall instil in your opponent's heart.

Sprinting = DA or Usmash.
Walking = Everything.
Dashing isn't all that bad either. The Demon King has some really amazing aerials and if he can get a punish on a roll that pops someone up in the air there's little most characters can do to keep him from piling on the damage and even getting a low-percent kill.

Sustained running is pretty terrible though.
 

Xinc

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Way #1 to spice up your bread: Up tilt to break a shield.
 

Poxnixles

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Way #1 to spice up your bread: Up tilt to break a shield.
Did this on accident to a Wario yesterday, topped it off with that tasty reverse Warlock Punch.
 

Merkabo

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Yeah. It'd be nice if the f tilt was a smash that behaved like one. and the current up smash we have now could be weakened a bit and become the new f tilt. Could be pre cool
 

GroundZero996

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Utilt is immensely fun when you intend to use it. Less fun when you accidentally use it instead of, say, Usmash or Ftilt.
Utilt is terrible. Sometimes lag spikes cause me to use Utilt when I mean to do short-hop Uair.

I did just get an amazing accidental Utilt kill though. Pacman's Hydrant stream pushed me into the perfect spot to get a hit with the explosive heel.
 
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Shogger

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Utilt is terrible. Sometimes lag spikes cause me to use Utilt when I mean to do short-hop Uair.

I did just get an amazing accidental Utilt kill though. Pacman's Hydrant stream pushed me into the perfect spot to get a hit with the explosive heel.
It's "terrible" as a bread and butter tilt move but it's actually pretty useful for edgeguarding.
 

Shogger

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I disagree. Downwards Fsmash has the same kill power and you can control the timing. Utilt is like Warlock Punch. You use it when you're being BM.
Well it is a great BM move as well, but I feel as though it has it's merits as an edgeguarding move because 1) it has much greater range, and 2) it oneshots shields.

Because of it's greater range, you can cover ledgerolls via positioning, and because of it's shieldbreak qualities, your opponents cannot do a standard getup > shield to block it.

I'm not saying it's a good move, but it has some uses.
 

GroundZero996

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Well it is a great BM move as well, but I feel as though it has it's merits as an edgeguarding move because 1) it has much greater range, and 2) it oneshots shields.

Because of it's greater range, you can cover ledgerolls via positioning, and because of it's shieldbreak qualities, your opponents cannot do a standard getup > shield to block it.

I'm not saying it's a good move, but it has some uses.
After replying to you I've tried it out. It has it's merits, especially against characters who can't sweet spot. I also enjoy a well spaced Usmash, because it has very low lag so you can do a follow up Ftilt very quickly to cover a roll or getup attack.
 

Shogger

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After replying to you I've tried it out. It has it's merits, especially against characters who can't sweet spot. I also enjoy a well spaced Usmash, because it has very low lag so you can do a follow up Ftilt very quickly to cover a roll or getup attack.
Oh yes, I am especially looking forward to the console version because Ganon can now DACUS. It's gonna be rad to see him fly across the stage and punt people.
 

Xinc

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Up tilt is a somewhat decent edgeguarding move. The explosion's a good pushback on recovering opponents.
 

Xinc

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it simply takes perfect timing
I know. Basically telegraphing what you're doing and the important timing weakens the (already not so good) viability of this move, but the shock factor really does scare the opponent. Into Shielding. Which up tilt can break in this game. Which can lead to a Warlock (Smoke w33d everyday) punch.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Rule 4: Ganon runs for no man.

Don't go dashing everywhere. Walking as the lord of darkness presents many, many more options. Not to mention the psychological aspect of fear you shall instil in your opponent's heart.

Sprinting = DA or Usmash.
Walking = Everything.
I'm not sure I agree with this one. Ganon's foxtrot ends so early that shield dashing is a pretty viable tactic.


Also...

Thou shalt abuse the Tipman spike against recovering opponents.
 

Lilfut

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Up tilt also sucks in opponents slowly, like the Unira item. Not a huge help, but it's there.
 

Bittersweet

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I'm not sure I agree with this one. Ganon's foxtrot ends so early that shield dashing is a pretty viable tactic.


Also...

Thou shalt abuse the Tipman spike against recovering opponents.
Abuse Uair in general. Even if you don't successfully Tipman it, it's an excellent move as a whole.
 

Wiley

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Haha I'm all for beginners guides and the like. I just think you could trim some of the fat in your words. The meat of Rule 3 for instance does not help newcomers to Ganon... it's you saying don't overuse moves in a very repetitive *(but fun for one who enjoys words) manner.

The idea that Ganoncide is "Always" the right answer though is a bit silly. It certainly feels good and ends with either neutral or advantageous stock counts in FG... but for the sake of using absolutes, if you're up a solid 80% on a rosalina because you had smart reads beat the crap out of Luma or just had a solid start vs anyone in general, and you throw that away with a Flame Choke sui-bomb, I wouldn't agree.

And I think the general smash pop is starting to see that Ganon is a powerhouse and was not properly judged off the bat. He just has a much harder time when opponents make fewer errors and have projectiles, and in a competitive scene that makes for a much harder road, and so will see less play. The dude is still my frontrunner in FG though, because that power is addictive.

GL to everyone and good start on the list, it's a motivation boost if nothing else for any fellow Ganon :D
 

Merkabo

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Well, I feel like people should learn, play the game and make their own options instead of having someone tell them what to do in any given situation. That said. Perhaps a beginners guide wasn't the correct phrase to use in the making of this thread. And there ''twas no fat in the third rule. It was a metaphor for not doing the same thing over and over again. xP
 
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Merkabo

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Updated the list of golden commandments. I'll be updating this everyday now, to hopefully mold this into something amazing.
STAY TUNED
 
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Davregis

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Oct 11, 2014
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ack ftilt and dtilt feel like the only safe moves, how does one avoid them becoming stale?
 
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