Friction and Omegas - It's not DACUS

[infomon]

Honestly until further research is done, all the Omega stages not tested on or have been tested on and aren't the same as Final Destination should be banned from major tournaments.

lmao you can't be serious

Omega stages are not Final Destination. They're Omega Stages. Each one is different. We've known that for a long time.

It's a new game. If that isn't enough metagame for you, then don't go to the tournament. If people show up, then it suggests that they feel comfortable competing with what's known about the game. We'll never have perfect information, or at least not for a very long time... hence a developing metagame.

And honestly, this is the most basic, most minor possible stage-variation that anyone could have mentioned. The wall variations in different omegas is much more significant. We've already figured out rulesets that accommodate this all perfectly well.

 

[internetmovieguy]

The walls play a much bigger part of counter picking than the terrain. for example I would want to counter pick a charazard to a thin FD which severely weakens his recovery by making it super easy to edge guard.

 

[Johnknight1]

lmao you can't be serious

Yes I am. MAJOR TOURNAMENTS should have a very restricted stage list. We can test out the "questionable" stages in smaller tournaments to test match data, match up data, match length, etc.

That IMO is how it should be done, and should always be done.

When thousands of dollars are on the line there should be no questionable stages in play.

We want the players to win, not the stages. Skill > hazards. That's the eSports way.

Honestly Brawl's large stage list at majors (with lots of moving stages) is one of many reasons that competitive scene took a nose dive into obscurity deeper than 64 ever dove into. By the time the majors stage list changed, it was too late. It's best not that history repeat itself. The scene must adapt or perish.

 

[Cornstalk]

The walls play a much bigger part of counter picking than the terrain. for example I would want to counter pick a charazard to a thin FD which severely weakens his recovery by making it super easy to edge guard.

That's a smart pick. Slamming into a wall with Flare Blitz/Dragon Rush is relatively easy to recover (assuming opponent can't interfere). Flare Blitz in particular with no wall will send poor Charizard deep under the stage before he regains control if he has to use it below stage level. There's a pretty low chance of recovery at this point if Charizard mucked it up vs the potential life saver of hitting a wall.

 

[Raijinken]

It's a nice find, but I would suggest leaving them legal in all cases until evidence is found to prove them unreasonable.

Treat 'em as separate if you have to, but there is no reason to ban this just because players aren't used to it. Familiarity could be grounds for a legitimate counterpick.

Yes I am. MAJOR TOURNAMENTS should have a very restricted stage list. We can test out the "questionable" stages in smaller tournaments to test match data, match up data, match length, etc.

That IMO is how it should be done, and should always be done.

When thousands of dollars are on the line there should be no questionable stages in play.

We want the players to win, not the stages. Skill > hazards. That's the eSports way.

Honestly Brawl's large stage list at majors (with lots of moving stages) is one of many reasons that competitive scene took a nose dive into obscurity deeper than 64 ever dove into. By the time the majors stage list changed, it was too late. It's best not that history repeat itself. The scene must adapt or perish.

A small and extremely consistent change of traction is in no way a hazard any more than the balloon in Smashville and Town are. Which is to say, if the traction change is that big of a deal, then the Animal Crossing stages pose an unfair detriment to Ness. To say nothing of Town's sidewards-exiting platforms being more than capable of taking a fighter off the blast line.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Yes I am. MAJOR TOURNAMENTS should have a very restricted stage list. We can test out the "questionable" stages in smaller tournaments to test match data, match up data, match length, etc.

That IMO is how it should be done, and should always be done.

When thousands of dollars are on the line there should be no questionable stages in play.

We want the players to win, not the stages. Skill > hazards. That's the eSports way.

Honestly Brawl's large stage list at majors (with lots of moving stages) is one of many reasons that competitive scene took a nose dive into obscurity deeper than 64 ever dove into. By the time the majors stage list changed, it was too late. It's best not that history repeat itself. The scene must adapt or perish.

If we were talking about stages like Pilotwings, Wuhu Island, Windy Hill Zone, etc, I'd be in full agreement with every word of this. But we're just talking about minor variations in friction here. Even I can't be assed to give a **** about that.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes I am. MAJOR TOURNAMENTS should have a very restricted stage list. We can test out the "questionable" stages in smaller tournaments to test match data, match up data, match length, etc.

That IMO is how it should be done, and should always be done.

When thousands of dollars are on the line there should be no questionable stages in play.

We want the players to win, not the stages. Skill > hazards. That's the eSports way.

Honestly Brawl's large stage list at majors (with lots of moving stages) is one of many reasons that competitive scene took a nose dive into obscurity deeper than 64 ever dove into. By the time the majors stage list changed, it was too late. It's best not that history repeat itself. The scene must adapt or perish.

Wrong. It was all about Meta Knight. He made the game into what it is today. You must be one of those people who complain about Frigate flips because you don't know to jump when the stage flips. Or maybe you didn't react in the 7 seconds it takes for the Halberd claw to actually hit someone.
Stop finding excuses for not playing interesting stages. Hazards = skill in many stages. Predictable hazards that aren't ridiculous (Port Town cars are too strong, while predictable) are perfectly fine.
The fact that someone is actually saying Omegas should be banned is ridiculous to me.

 

[KayJay]

You can update the OP with the Fox-trot video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE0fx6uZAM

 

[daguyontheladder]

Thats something to thing about when picking omegas......guess the "just a different skin" mentality is out the window now :3

I thought all we had to worry about were wall climbers...

 

[dizney]

With perfect pivoting becoming a thing it seems, has anyone tested if distance of a perfect pivot is affected by grass?

 

[Cornstalk]

With perfect pivoting becoming a thing it seems, has anyone tested if distance of a perfect pivot is affected by grass?

The short answer: Yes

Setting it to 1/4 speed using captain falcon, he would slide farther back on a normal friction stage compared to a stage with grass. I don't see this being too much of a problem unless the slide away takes you out of reach for your attack to land. Marth could potentially use it to great effect for tipper spacing. Luigi may suffer whiffs because he slides to far away, potentially preferring a grassy stage to use perfect pivots.