Juce
Smash Ace
I understand how it works with the drill kick to shine, but is it worth the effort to learn and to do in a fight?
And is there any other infinite combos fox can do?
And is there any other infinite combos fox can do?
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Fox's Infinite Combo
- Thread starter Juce
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choknater
Smash Obsessed
Yes, they are worth it. I mean come on, they're infinite.
And yes, there are more than one.
Mainly they're finished off with a wd upsmash.
There's the basic one: sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd forward, repeat
The basic infinite can also be done on a wall, and there is no need to wd forward. Just wd in place.
Inverse: sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd forward, sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd BACKWARDS, repeat. This works on characters with less traction, like Ganondorf. This one's truly infinite because you don't need to move to the edge of the stage.
Incredibly hard one: First you shine on the ground, then jump out of it. But you don't actually jump. During the initial 2 frames of the jump, you don't leave the ground, and that's when you hit down B again. This takes incredible timing, and you may need to use your forefingers on the buttons. Just alternate B and Y very quickly.
And the next one I saw in a video featuring Jarrod (with his buddy in the background saying "JARROD DOES A COOL COMBOOOO")
This one's the easiest. Just shine your opponent against a wall, jump out (not a sh, which makes this easy), fast fall, drill, l-cancel and repeat. It's very easy to continue, and Jarrod almost reached 300% with this one.
These are common knowledge.
If there are others, someone tell me!
And yes, there are more than one.
Mainly they're finished off with a wd upsmash.
There's the basic one: sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd forward, repeat
The basic infinite can also be done on a wall, and there is no need to wd forward. Just wd in place.
Inverse: sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd forward, sh drill l-cancel, shine, wd BACKWARDS, repeat. This works on characters with less traction, like Ganondorf. This one's truly infinite because you don't need to move to the edge of the stage.
Incredibly hard one: First you shine on the ground, then jump out of it. But you don't actually jump. During the initial 2 frames of the jump, you don't leave the ground, and that's when you hit down B again. This takes incredible timing, and you may need to use your forefingers on the buttons. Just alternate B and Y very quickly.
And the next one I saw in a video featuring Jarrod (with his buddy in the background saying "JARROD DOES A COOL COMBOOOO")
This one's the easiest. Just shine your opponent against a wall, jump out (not a sh, which makes this easy), fast fall, drill, l-cancel and repeat. It's very easy to continue, and Jarrod almost reached 300% with this one.
These are common knowledge.
If there are others, someone tell me!
FaTmAn2k20
Smash Journeyman
[color=sky_blue] It's pretty useful to learn Fox's infinites, or at least his easy one (drillshine against a wall). It's not too often that you'll actually have a wall, but it makes counterpicking levels even more useful, because then you can pick a level with a wall. Even if you can't do the combo for an extremely long time, it is useful to be able to 20-30 hits with it because it racks up damage quickly. [/color]
CunningKitsune
Smash Ace
Juce, if you're still interested in Fox's infinites, you can check out my Fox guide here on SWF. It outlines each one of Fox's potential infinites, including how to do them (counting the Drill Shine and its corresponding two inversion methods as one infinite, Fox has 5 distinct infinite shine combos, 6 if you count each inversion method separately). One of these is character-specific to Link, Zelda, and Peach due to their respective tractions, so I guess you could have fun with that one given the correct situation...
It is largely a matter of personal player opinion on whether it is truly worth it to learn and regularly execute any one of Fox's infinite shines in battle. I myself think that learning at least one variant (of course, preferably the wall drill infinite shine or other wall-dependant infinite shine) could be a substantial boost to your game as well as a great method of intimidation in a match. Of course, none of the infinites themselves have ever (and probably never will) be made truly infinite by any one player (in the sense of, "I can just keep doing this as long as I want, 999% or otherwise, and not mess up"). For virtually every infinite-capable Fox player, his infinites are only infinite to the point where you can destroy the enemy with a single up-smash. Obviously, that is the most practical use of Fox's infinites, unless you really want to show off your Fox abilities.
Of course, Fox is easily more than capable of winning his share of games without the use of any infinites at all. Ask an experienced Fox player whether he regularly uses infinites in his matches. Usually, you'll get something along the lines of, "I prefer to rely on his less-fragile abilities, such as waveshining, shuffled sex kicks, and shine spiking." It's simply the more reliable nature of these techniques that creates this mind set. Just try effectively pulling off a perfect infinite every match in a tournament setting, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
So, to answer your question, it could be worth your effort to perfect at least one infinite shine for your Fox as another step in your development. If you still are not completely sure of his more basic attributes, such as wavedashing and shuffling aerials, I would say to base your game more around those, and not concentrate so much on pulling off an infinite in heated battle.
It is largely a matter of personal player opinion on whether it is truly worth it to learn and regularly execute any one of Fox's infinite shines in battle. I myself think that learning at least one variant (of course, preferably the wall drill infinite shine or other wall-dependant infinite shine) could be a substantial boost to your game as well as a great method of intimidation in a match. Of course, none of the infinites themselves have ever (and probably never will) be made truly infinite by any one player (in the sense of, "I can just keep doing this as long as I want, 999% or otherwise, and not mess up"). For virtually every infinite-capable Fox player, his infinites are only infinite to the point where you can destroy the enemy with a single up-smash. Obviously, that is the most practical use of Fox's infinites, unless you really want to show off your Fox abilities.
Of course, Fox is easily more than capable of winning his share of games without the use of any infinites at all. Ask an experienced Fox player whether he regularly uses infinites in his matches. Usually, you'll get something along the lines of, "I prefer to rely on his less-fragile abilities, such as waveshining, shuffled sex kicks, and shine spiking." It's simply the more reliable nature of these techniques that creates this mind set. Just try effectively pulling off a perfect infinite every match in a tournament setting, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
So, to answer your question, it could be worth your effort to perfect at least one infinite shine for your Fox as another step in your development. If you still are not completely sure of his more basic attributes, such as wavedashing and shuffling aerials, I would say to base your game more around those, and not concentrate so much on pulling off an infinite in heated battle.
Juce
Smash Ace
thanks for your help. i already got the infinite shine up aganst a wall but i'll work on the others you can do on a flat level
HavocLord
Smash Journeyman
Erm, Cunning Kitsune, ask most experienced Fox players and they'll reply that they can't do it at all.
As far as I know, only Mofo and Mow can actually use the infinite (non wall) in a real match. While I can't speak for Mow, as for Mofo he'll use it every chance he gets.
It isn't necessearily the fact that it's harder to do in Vs Mode, rather than that it's harder to start. Players do quite a bit to dodge shines, as they can lead to so much. That makes uncertainty if you're going to start, and you definitely need to know or you'll mess up. It's more so the meta-game, rather the technicality of it during matches.
Add in the fact that the infinites are truly not infinites via directional influence and that just makes it tougher. Albeit you can follow the DI, chances are you won't be able to follow them every time. Stage edges add to this difficulty. Often, you can DI right through the drill and completely miss the shine.
Starting it, the opponent's reactions (aka DI), and the technical aspect are pretty much the factors for the infinites in matches.
As per Juce's question, they're well worth the effort if you're proficient. Just don't expect it to be the be all end all tactic.
As far as I know, only Mofo and Mow can actually use the infinite (non wall) in a real match. While I can't speak for Mow, as for Mofo he'll use it every chance he gets.
It isn't necessearily the fact that it's harder to do in Vs Mode, rather than that it's harder to start. Players do quite a bit to dodge shines, as they can lead to so much. That makes uncertainty if you're going to start, and you definitely need to know or you'll mess up. It's more so the meta-game, rather the technicality of it during matches.
Add in the fact that the infinites are truly not infinites via directional influence and that just makes it tougher. Albeit you can follow the DI, chances are you won't be able to follow them every time. Stage edges add to this difficulty. Often, you can DI right through the drill and completely miss the shine.
Starting it, the opponent's reactions (aka DI), and the technical aspect are pretty much the factors for the infinites in matches.
As per Juce's question, they're well worth the effort if you're proficient. Just don't expect it to be the be all end all tactic.
RockCrock
Smash Champion
Can't do what at all ? Surely you dont mean an infinite combo do you?
Can you be more specific when you say (non wall)... Do you mean inverse, short hop drill shine, or WaveShine? WaveShining for me is a walk in the park. My brother plays as CF (low traction) so I can just shine, shine, shine, shine, shine, shine, him right off the edge, wavedash down after him , and hit him once more. After the last shine, I woulnt jump-cancell it. This is because when he mid-airs back up, ill just shine him again, then mid air to safe ground.
But if your talking about inverse... yes, there are few that can do it in a real match. Not even I! (Look Amazed) But then again, its
all a matter of which opponent your up against. Like Cunning said "One of these is character-specific to Link, Zelda, and Peach due to their respective tractions"
1. Link- The number of people that use Link at tournament level (L-Cancel, advance tactics and stuff) is very few. And even if a great Link player was pitted against a good Fox player, the Fox will still probably have the upper hand without the use of any intense combos.
2. Zelda- Same as above! Very Few people play as Zelda, most play as Shiek.
3. Peach- Now... Peach, a High-tier character, is likely to be seen more often than Link + Zelda combined. This is just because Peach is a very good character, and people know that. So, the only problem with Peach is her Down-Smash of Death!. I've just had too many bad experiences aginst that down smash, to where I dont even use my Fox agiast Peachs.
Example: Lets say your fighting on FD. A nice flat level, ideal place to use the inverse infinite. So you see an opening, and you short hop your drill, L-cancel, Shine, wavedash up to her and do it 2 more times. Except the last time, as coming down from the drill, you miss the L-Cancel. Now your crouching, waiting for the lag to go away, so you can shine. But its too late, Peach whips out a Down-Smash while you were still crouched. Your now trapped in the vortex, and go flying out with another 45%-65% on you. Now lets compair the damages of the infinite, to the Down-Smash. 5 hits from the drill is about 10%, times 3 drills, is 30%. Two Shines, each for 4% makes a total of 38% for the infinite.
So the Down-Smash out weights the infinite by atleast 10%. Not to mention that the Peach can follow up her last attack by edge-guarding with her D-Smash, which is very hard (imo) to get past.
What im trying to say is that althought the inverse has the potential to be the deadlyest of the infinites, it has the smallest rate of success, and sometimes the biggest consequences.
Drill Shine with wall > Inverse
MasterOfFlames
Smash Journeyman
mofo here
I recently 'discovered' a shine combo...I'm not sure if this is in your guide or not, honestly I'm too lazy to check... On high traction characters you can combo shine short hop, fast fall shine, repeat. If your REALLY good you can even fit in a laser. And I guess you could inverse it with a drill or whatever. This combo's pretty useless, but it looks pretty cool nontheless
The trick to making infinites less DI-able is to fast fall your drills. You won't do as much damage since only 3 drills hit, but it makes it a helluvalot more consistant.
EDIT: I noticed that alot of people here think you can only infinite high traction characters... I can infinite Marth, so i guess that opens up alot of posibilities for other characters to be infinited
. What i've noticed is that traction isn't the only factor. Some characters (like samus) become really 'thin' when you drill them so any little DI can really make you miss the shine.. oh well, grab works when that happens.
Well that's assuming you suck that bad at l-canceling. If it's a 5 stock match, infinite Peach to **** killing her 3 stock, and I mess up once and get eaten by a downsmash, to me that's a small price to pay.
I recently 'discovered' a shine combo...I'm not sure if this is in your guide or not, honestly I'm too lazy to check... On high traction characters you can combo shine short hop, fast fall shine, repeat. If your REALLY good you can even fit in a laser. And I guess you could inverse it with a drill or whatever. This combo's pretty useless, but it looks pretty cool nontheless
The trick to making infinites less DI-able is to fast fall your drills. You won't do as much damage since only 3 drills hit, but it makes it a helluvalot more consistant.
EDIT: I noticed that alot of people here think you can only infinite high traction characters... I can infinite Marth, so i guess that opens up alot of posibilities for other characters to be infinited
. What i've noticed is that traction isn't the only factor. Some characters (like samus) become really 'thin' when you drill them so any little DI can really make you miss the shine.. oh well, grab works when that happens.
D
Deleted member
Guest
yes Mofo showed me how much he uses his infinates lol. He uses them more than me in genreal....unless you include that match that I played Eddie or 3===D. heh Midwest Ganon players are so fun.
Juce
Smash Ace
im going to ask a good player that i know is good. Mow, do you infinite alot, and dose it help your game?
RockCrock
Smash Champion
Yes, tell our Mow, how often do you use your infinite combos?
I use mine alot!
the_suicide_fox
Smash Champion
Actually you can infinite every character in the game without a wall. Luigi and Ice Climbers are more of an instant death combo than a true infinite but still the point of the infinites is to make an unescapable combo until death. What you need to do is do a running reflector wd forward then Fox Trot towards Luigi and reflector again. Repeat until he is off the stage. The unfortunate thing is that you must be perfect in your timing, down to the frame. But it's at least possible to "infinite" the very low traction characters such as Luigi.
Also Mofo, in that vid you made where you did the infinite on Link you didn't ff your drills. And I don't remember you ff your drills in any of your matches at S4$. I have been practicing that infinite, as well as a few others, and I just wanna know how you do it exactly? What's your trick? If you want to tell me, your Fox buddy :D, you can PM me if you wanna keep it a secret. If not it's cool, but you can't infinite me I fall to the ground.
Also Mofo, in that vid you made where you did the infinite on Link you didn't ff your drills. And I don't remember you ff your drills in any of your matches at S4$. I have been practicing that infinite, as well as a few others, and I just wanna know how you do it exactly? What's your trick? If you want to tell me, your Fox buddy :D, you can PM me if you wanna keep it a secret. If not it's cool, but you can't infinite me
I fall to the ground.MasterOfFlames
Smash Journeyman
Suiside, I tried to respond to your PM before, but when I clicked send, it went to a black screen and loaded forever. Finally it said "Cannot Contact Server", so i pressed the back button, and alas, my post disapeared >_<.
The training mode computer doesn't DI, so i didn't bother to fast fall.
Certain characters have less room to DI, so you don't nescisarilly have to fastfall, on say, Zelda or Ganondorf. It's almost impossible to infinite characters like Samus or Captain Falcon without fastfalling, since when you start drilling them, they get really thin and can DI like crazy... it's hard to expain, try it, and you'll know what I mean.
And I'm working on a method of shine 'chaining' characters that fall over... I made a video of one aspect of it, just look for it on the DC Hub, it's called something like "MoF_Shine Chaining.mp4".
When i'm done perfecting the method, i'll present it to the public.....maybe
The training mode computer doesn't DI, so i didn't bother to fast fall.
Certain characters have less room to DI, so you don't nescisarilly have to fastfall, on say, Zelda or Ganondorf. It's almost impossible to infinite characters like Samus or Captain Falcon without fastfalling, since when you start drilling them, they get really thin and can DI like crazy... it's hard to expain, try it, and you'll know what I mean.
And I'm working on a method of shine 'chaining' characters that fall over... I made a video of one aspect of it, just look for it on the DC Hub, it's called something like "MoF_Shine Chaining.mp4".
When i'm done perfecting the method, i'll present it to the public.....maybe
D
Deleted member
Guest
I use a drillshine or a waveshine.....I dunno, twice a match if the opportunity shows up. I never go out of my way to do it. Unlike Mofo lol who did it to take 4 stock off my Zelda. Mad impressive, punk.
I don't ususally finish with upsmash. I realize that I might screw up, and most players shield first thing to avoid the next drill. So i grab them from shield, assuming I screw up. if not, it's just a grab. Anyway, upthrow to flip kick is much more reliable and no CC factor. IMO of course, I think Mofo prefers the upsmash.
Rock: alot you say? we should play! I'll use Zelda =)
I don't ususally finish with upsmash. I realize that I might screw up, and most players shield first thing to avoid the next drill. So i grab them from shield, assuming I screw up. if not, it's just a grab. Anyway, upthrow to flip kick is much more reliable and no CC factor. IMO of course, I think Mofo prefers the upsmash.
Rock: alot you say? we should play! I'll use Zelda =)
RockCrock
Smash Champion
Is that a challenge to inverse? Even if it isnt, sure why not! =)
I end my drill shine infinite with a fast falled u-air, not up-smash. I dont know why... its just the way I do it. I know I can link the shine to a u-air in the combo, but does drill to up-smash still combo?
I prefer u-air when drill shining.
f5o0x
Smash Rookie
yo havoc lord this chris u probably remember me we talk on the phone together with mofo. But u are right mofo is on of the only people that i know that can use that infinite combo in a real match he woops me everytime just because of that combo. If it wasn't for that i could almost take him. I can only do the infinite like twice in a row but i'm still working on it.
FireFox518
Smash Cadet
for the infinite how can you set it up ? .... What would be the best way to set up for the infinite ( in other words )? im guessing you just do it right then in there but ive tried and usally throws me off. can anyone give me an idea ? ~ Thanks
Juce
Smash Ace
pretty much just if you get a drill kick off on them you L-cancel from the drill kick into a shine
Juce
Smash Ace
well, the reflector sends your enemy up with falco so the only place it would work would be pokemon stadium on the fire stage were there is a hole you can wave shine in the hole at the left side of the stage, it will send them up but they will stop and fall back in front of you and do it all over again
I'm still learning these things. I can barely SH with Fox, so no drillshines for me yet.
It's always a joy to play against Link since he can be waveshined (? vB,WD,vB...) out of the field so easily.
As for setting up an infinite I can only say it shouldn't be too impossible to land a shine or drill on the opponent.
If your opponent uses hard shield all the time, is it possible to keep doing drill, l-cancel, shine, SH... and have them stuck in their shieldstun until it breaks?
That would be a nice weapon to have.
It's always a joy to play against Link since he can be waveshined (? vB,WD,vB...) out of the field so easily.
As for setting up an infinite I can only say it shouldn't be too impossible to land a shine or drill on the opponent.
If your opponent uses hard shield all the time, is it possible to keep doing drill, l-cancel, shine, SH... and have them stuck in their shieldstun until it breaks?
That would be a nice weapon to have.
Final Fox
Smash Rookie
sadly i thing even if i used foxes infinites i would probably not know what i was doing. Im not worried about my gameplay currently though. I loooooooooooveeeee doing hit-and-runs with fox.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
This topic should be dead by now... it's been thoroughly explained.
Anyway, RockCrock: you're good. I could never end my infinite with a shuffled uair... I can't even shuffle a uair. Do you use the c-stick or do you just have excellent control stick control?
Anyway, RockCrock: you're good. I could never end my infinite with a shuffled uair... I can't even shuffle a uair. Do you use the c-stick or do you just have excellent control stick control?
RockCrock
Smash Champion
I never said I short hoped... I just full jump then fast fall. It works.
stilettotrap
Smash Ace
I can end infinites with shffl'd uairs 
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Oh, heh. I thought about that too, but I didn't think it was fast enough, so I assumed it was short hopped.
Anyway, stiletto is now cool.
RockCrock
Smash Champion
I was playing around with my infinite combo today, trying different attacks to end it...
Correct me if im wrong... but if the opponent is against the wall, and you Up smash them, doesnt the green bounce animation happen? Meaning they can tech? Doesnt it also reduceds the knock-back of the attack?
Whereas if you do it my way... and uair... there is no bounce, and it kills at a lower percent than the up smash.
Right?
Correct me if im wrong... but if the opponent is against the wall, and you Up smash them, doesnt the green bounce animation happen? Meaning they can tech? Doesnt it also reduceds the knock-back of the attack?
Whereas if you do it my way... and uair... there is no bounce, and it kills at a lower percent than the up smash.
Right?
Juce
Smash Ace
thats a good idea, you could ful hope fast fall the up air, or shffl would work just as well i guess...
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
I think you'd be better off shuffling it. I've been A'd out of a ff uair.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
kinda old topic here, but anyway, @ RockCrock, if you uair, and they DI towards the wall, they'll still hit the wall (with opportunity to tech/ reduced knockback), in addition, the usmash will kill at lower %s on the ground, and the uair can be SDI'ed out of.
And on another note, another way to make it harder to escape drillshining, is to not always use the drill, waveshine a bit in there too. then it's less predictable and they might not sdi out of the drill.
And on another note, another way to make it harder to escape drillshining, is to not always use the drill, waveshine a bit in there too. then it's less predictable and they might not sdi out of the drill.
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