Fox's Combo Game

[Hakkat]

We all know about Fox's amazing combo game. But I would like to know about it in even further detail. One main factor about his combo game is that his combos are incredibly hard to just randomly pull off compared to other characters. While some characters can just use grabs to tilts and aerials to combo, many of Fox's combos involve aerials to L canceling to shining, which can be followed up by Waveshining. When compared to the other combos of characters where you simply must just use rapid attacks in succession, these feel incredibly hard to use randomly if not in training mode. If pulled off successfully, however, these combos are probably some of the most rewarding in the game, and feel amazing to use in a real battle against your friends.

Thoughts? This is just my opinion, so please don't criticize me, and I'm typing from my phone, so I'm sorry about any typos there may be

 

[Deleted member]

fox is not a combo character. fox's job is to put the opponent into a bad position, wait for them to do something, and abuse it over and over until you get the kill.

abusing stage control and waiting are two really broken tactics in this game and fox is alarmingly unfair at both of them.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox is awful at comboing.

 

[Four Leaf]

Do you even know how to play melee Umbreon?

 

[KirbyKaze]

He taught me Sheik...

 

[Deleted member]

that's taylor. don't mind him he plays brawl.

taylor i'd make fun of you for dating an alcoholic but i just got dumped so you win lol

 

[Hakkat]

Lol, he isn't the best combo-er...I guess, anyway, so he isn't the best comboer, but he still has some good techniques, such as Waveshining (still a little confused on that, as the wavedash doesn't take me far enough for another shine, not sure if it's supposed to...), and drillshining, which is incredibly fun to use and pull off in a fight, as I use drillshining.

 

[Ziodyne]

Lol, he isn't the best combo-er...I guess, anyway, so he isn't the best comboer, but he still has some good techniques, such as Waveshining (still a little confused on that, as the wavedash doesn't take me far enough for another shine, not sure if it's supposed to...), and drillshining, which is incredibly fun to use and pull off in a fight, as I use drillshining.

i think ur missing a good amount of meaning behind their posts, but that's okay because ur fairly new and probably won't get what they're really saying until a lot later

waveshining works on specific characters depending on their weight and on some characters, u'll need a full wavedash length in order hit the next shine, which means ur stick should be as close to horizontal as possible when you wavedash. if it doesn't though, try looking for options other than another shine out of a waveshine (grab?)

drill shining is damage, but if ur getting caught up on it, i think ur thinking too small haha. also, learn uthrow -> uair against semi-floaties (marth/sheik) and floaties (puff/peach). it's a lot less reliable the better the other player gets, but it destroys noobs and will hopefully u'll learn to appreciate how good uthrow is when u use uthrow more

 

[Hakkat]

i think ur missing a good amount of meaning behind their posts, but that's okay because ur fairly new and probably won't get what they're really saying until a lot later

waveshining works on specific characters depending on their weight and on some characters, u'll need a full wavedash length in order hit the next shine, which means ur stick should be as close to horizontal as possible when you wavedash. if it doesn't though, try looking for options other than another shine out of a waveshine (grab?)

drill shining is damage, but if ur getting caught up on it, i think ur thinking too small haha. also, learn uthrow -> uair against semi-floaties (marth/sheik) and floaties (puff/peach). it's a lot less reliable the better the other player gets, but it destroys noobs and will hopefully u'll learn to appreciate how good uthrow is when u use uthrow more

I try to Uthrow Uair a lot, but usually they just easily DI out of it. I can only get it at low percents when I short hop Uair (against good players, that is)

 

[Bad Cupboard]

Upthrow faster
It can be hard to DI if they don't see the grab coming and you upthrow immediately
Too bad everyone plays fox all the time so it's easy to see it coming

Also get someone to DI behind you or rubber band the control stick or something so you can practice doing up air after they DI. It can be hard to do if you're not used to it

 

[Hakkat]

Upthrow faster
It can be hard to DI if they don't see the grab coming and you upthrow immediately
Too bad everyone plays fox all the time so it's easy to see it coming

Also get someone to DI behind you or rubber band the control stick or something so you can practice doing up air after they DI. It can be hard to do if you're not used to it

good idea, thanks!

I wouldn't say that EVERYONE plays Fox though.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

I meant everyone plays against fox
It's one of the most common matchups

 

[Hakkat]

oh ok I see lol.

 

[R2_GP]

i think platforms shine landings are a very useful addition to fox's poor combo repertory, falco is the best at this tho

 

[Deleted member]

fox has the best conversion in the game with the famous observe > shine/grab/kick combo. powerful stuff there.

 

[Hakkat]

He seems to have some combos, just not a ton. He does haw Utilt juggles on some of the heavier/fast falling characters at low percents.

 

[Four Leaf]

that's taylor. don't mind him he plays brawl.

taylor i'd make fun of you for dating an alcoholic but i just got dumped so you win lol

Could be worse. You could be John

 

[Jim Morrison]

First posts were overreacting, Fox has a pretty good combo game but he cannot rely on it like Falco players or Sheik players can, where everything will combo into itself in a kill (though fox often does this too but not by a combo). Fox's amazing game comes from how fast he is, he enables you to react faster than any other character to what your opponenet does, so you're one of the best at following and punishing techs, covering the ledge when they're trying to come back up, cover the ground when they're above you etc. Those are things Fox excels at, and his combo game is nice, but not his strong point like it would be with Falco.

 

[Hakkat]

First posts were overreacting, Fox has a pretty good combo game but he cannot rely on it like Falco players or Sheik players can, where everything will combo into itself in a kill (though fox often does this too but not by a combo). Fox's amazing game comes from how fast he is, he enables you to react faster than any other character to what your opponenet does, so you're one of the best at following and punishing techs, covering the ledge when they're trying to come back up, cover the ground when they're above you etc. Those are things Fox excels at, and his combo game is nice, but not his strong point like it would be with Falco.

Falco has a strong combo game? Then again I've never really played Falco, and I don't think I've EVER used him in P:M...

Thanks though. I often find myself using Fox's sheer speed to kill someone, such as DDing to dodge/punish or attack them when they try to come close.

 

[BTmoney]

Falco has a strong combo game?

Lol have you never watched a match with a Falco worth their salt?

 

[Hakkat]

Lol have you never watched a match with a Falco worth their salt?

Probably not lol

 

[R2_GP]

Falco will hunt your dreams comboing

 

[Kaeon]

Falco has a strong combo game?

...

 

[Britex]

Fox combo game is weak?

This is all theoratically doable.

 

[Ziodyne]

Fox combo game is weak?

This is all theoratically doable.

With brasterd073's godly TAS on a level 9 CPU Fox

Yeah, compared to the other top/high-tiers, Fox's combo game is weak. It's hardly a weakness though IMO, he has pretty solid autocombos that don't do heavy damage but are always guaranteed, then he moves fast and hits so friggin' hard that the line between combo and neutral game blurs

 

[michael_li]

fox combos are just bunch of hits you chain together lol. then they tech, you hit em some more, grab em few times. hit em and keep doing that over and over again without gettin hit haha

 

[Zhea]

Can tack on upwards of 50% on a punish combo... Not a combo character... Wat.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

Fox combo game is weak?
This is all theoratically doable.

what if this fox went to apex lol
yea all this stuff is in like a 2025 metagame
i wonder if melee will evolve to near perfect techskill and combos
those perfect waveshines are rediculous, i wish i had a 1/100th of this guys movement GG

 

[ruhtraeel]

Fox's best move leading into combos is u-tilt. Do it after like every nair if you hit them.

F-air is also good too at certain times

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

ive heard that its dangerous to try to continue combos like forexample
nair shine-> nair shine etc.

if your arial shining a marth acros a stage is there a big window for getting grabbed or something
only asking cuz i thought that once your fox and you hitconfirm shine you can just mango it and chase him down with nair shine spam

obviously you mix up shine grab, nair shine-> grab, and landing arials behind them putting them in an awkward position
its very clear you can just spam arial shine arial shine on computers so for a character like marth who doesnt get infinited by arial shines like link or peach, will i be putting myself in a bad position by trying to mango it and continue my spam
or is this just fradulence and http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P631Tp9DBFQ#t=259 isnt a true combo/follow up lol

 

[ElloEddy]

LOL fox is awful at combing...hah tell silent wolf / mango / dark / javi ...that ....to be great at combining w fox your tech skill / control must be at least mango level , ...running shines on floaties is amazing..leads to alot , up tilts into soft aerials , pretty much the more technical you are with FOX , the better combos you can get ..(not that basic ****.)...

honestly....fox combo potential is godly...but there are really only a handful of foxes that can do it.......ppl think being able to wave shine and do SHFFL aerials well is tech , .......being able to do what you want , when you want to the utmost is tech skill with fox

 

[1MachGO]

Fox has a great combo game. I would agree that some other top tiers have him beat, but to call it awful is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Tero.]

Fox combo game is weak?

This is all theoratically doable.

No it's not.
No one would/could DI like that.

It's true that Fox is not a combo character (unlike Falco who is 100% combo based).
He still has some good stuff, people need to utilize Utilt and Dtilt more. The thing is that his "combo game" (like dair shine grab) always ends up with your opponent in a bad position (e.g. above you after getting uthrow uair'd) where you try to basically repeat your stuff again (over and over) until they die.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Fox combo game is weak?

This is all theoratically doable.

Not even in this vid do you see him comboing often.

Fox is a movement character.

 

[4 Aces]

ive heard that its dangerous to try to continue combos like forexample
nair shine-> nair shine etc.

if your arial shining a marth acros a stage is there a big window for getting grabbed or something
only asking cuz i thought that once your fox and you hitconfirm shine you can just mango it and chase him down with nair shine spam

obviously you mix up shine grab, nair shine-> grab, and landing arials behind them putting them in an awkward position
its very clear you can just spam arial shine arial shine on computers so for a character like marth who doesnt get infinited by arial shines like link or peach, will i be putting myself in a bad position by trying to mango it and continue my spam
or is this just fradulence and http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P631Tp9DBFQ#t=259 isnt a true combo/follow up lol

When hit-confirming, you have to worry about not just whether you hit their body or their shield, but you also have to think about whether or not they get popped off the ground when hit by nair (prolly easiest to just be mindful of what percent they're at when you connect with nair...and maybe whether or not they crouch cancel).

This is because when you shine someone, if they're in the air and they hit the ground after getting shined, they can retaliate/immediately do stuff. As such, if you nair Marth (or any character), and they are lifted off the ground, and you stupidly shine then wavedash towards them...they're getting a free grab on you.

This isn't '07 anymore where you can just nair shine someone all the way across the stage and then shinespike them afterwards. At least, it ain't free as **** like in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4liBCClr-M#t=1m09s

The whole game is like that, but more specifically, go to 1:09.

No it's not.
No one would/could DI like that.

It's true that Fox is not a combo character (unlike Falco who is 100% combo based).
He still has some good stuff, people need to utilize Utilt and Dtilt more. The thing is that his "combo game" (like dair shine grab) always ends up with your opponent in a bad position (e.g. above you after getting uthrow uair'd) where you try to basically repeat your stuff again (over and over) until they die.

I think I use uptilt and downtilt a little too much. lol

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

When hit-confirming, you have to worry about not just whether you hit their body or their shield, but you also have to think about whether or not they get popped off the ground when hit by nair (prolly easiest to just be mindful of what percent they're at when you connect with nair...and maybe whether or not they crouch cancel).

This is because when you shine someone, if they're in the air and they hit the ground after getting shined, they can retaliate/immediately do stuff. As such, if you nair Marth (or any character), and they are lifted off the ground, and you stupidly shine then wavedash towards them...they're getting a free grab on you.

- real talk, just being mindful of my opponents percent and position is how your gonna know your follow ups

- also not sure how the level of di varies among the different levels of smashers
but m2k always does heavy smash di on shines, and literally foils all foxs extended combo attempts

-i can see how impossible the marth fox mu is now since people di and all fox can do is not get hit

-but thanks for the tips, i feel myself becoming smarter now and i am figuring out my followups and ****,

also i have to learn to be able to approach with stuff other than arials, like raw baiting is a big hole in noob foxplay, i gotta put in work and level up not just my techskill lmao

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

sorry for the double post but just had to acknowledge how terrible that attempt to reply to you was lol gg

 

[4 Aces]

sorry for the double post but just had to acknowledge how terrible that attempt to reply to you was lol gg

lol gg.

But yeah, no problem. Lol I remember the advice for Marth match-up literally used to be, "Just nair --> shine --> nair --> shine all the way across stage." Like, you can go into the Q&A forums right now and you'll find it in the first and second page. Man...metagame's definitely changed a bit since then. Well, at least grab --> upthrow --> upair is still bawws on Marth.

That's actually not something I really thought about with Fox -- hard DI'ing his shine. I used to figure that you can't do that. Might gotta look into that and learn it for myself.

Yeah, same here. I think I go ham and just try to overpower them with raw Techskill. Against anyone worth their salt, it generally means bad things for me.