Fox vs. Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Damp]

Some people new to smash don't know how to handle Fox. Fox can be very intimidating for new players, so we created this thread to spread information about what they should be doing so Fox doesn't seem so overwhelming. Yoshi v Fox is in Yoshi's favor. That doesn't mean Yoshi will automatically win. We need to let other Yoshi's know how to approach the matchup. That's it.

 

[Mumbo]

@ TomBoComBo I played Noghrilla on netplay today. He played a variety of characters but the one that suprised me the most was his fox. He does a lot of things and knows a lot of things about yoshi that makes this matchup much harder than i thought. First, he has nearly frame perfect shield pressure, and i felt like i had no OoS options. Any form of jumping (nair, djc, wavedash) was too slow because his frame advantage was so insane. Grabbing obviously isnt an option, and everytime i rolled i got punished harder because of the stuck in shield glitch which he knew about?! I felt like the only option was getting hit by shine and trying to tech or cc or just get out of there. Any advice? The second thing was he was shining out of all my combos. Maybe im just too slow, but he managed to shine me out of uthrow usmash. He also is a frame perfect masher and got out of egglay immediately, and with a perfectly spaced nair too. We still went 50/50, but this was on netplay and that seems like way too close a margin for a matchup i thought was so heavily lopsided.

Other than that i beat his ganon and had problems with his dk, which he said was opposite for you.

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ TomBoComBo I played Noghrilla on netplay today. He played a variety of characters but the one that suprised me the most was his fox. He does a lot of things and knows a lot of things about yoshi that makes this matchup much harder than i thought. First, he has nearly frame perfect shield pressure, and i felt like i had no OoS options. Any form of jumping (nair, djc, wavedash) was too slow because his frame advantage was so insane. Grabbing obviously isnt an option, and everytime i rolled i got punished harder because of the stuck in shield glitch which he knew about?! I felt like the only option was getting hit by shine and trying to tech or cc or just get out of there. Any advice? The second thing was he was shining out of all my combos. Maybe im just too slow, but he managed to shine me out of uthrow usmash. He also is a frame perfect masher and got out of egglay immediately, and with a perfectly spaced nair too. We still went 50/50, but this was on netplay and that seems like way too close a margin for a matchup i thought was so heavily lopsided.

Other than that i beat his ganon and had problems with his dk, which he said was opposite for you.

How you deal with fox is you have to know what kind of pressure he's dealing and what to do about it. If you cc a Dair, you can bring up shield at any time. the moment when you'd SDI something is when you roll away or behind him. Dtilt beat a ton of foxes moves and even if it trades, it's good to give yourself breathing room. Spacies MU is really a combo or be combo-ed kind of fight. Getting one grab can be death for Fox if you're prepared for any option he chooses to get away. You said he was shining you out of Uthrow Usmash? Either he's frame perfect or you're not fast enough or both, but the moment he did that, you should then choose to go Uthrow Utilt instead because Utilt is faster and it can lead to a Nair. Also, watch your percentage, at 85%~ you're in danger of a Usmash death, switch your play to defensive. The key is to know when to tank, when to shield, when to space and when to go all in. Here's a little trick I learned recently, maybe I'm scrubby for not realizing, but I just figured out you can reverse a grounded yoshi bomb and the initial hitbox will come out behind you. So (really in any MU) as an example you could Dair on them/their shield. If you get a Full or near-Full Dair, then land behind them and Lcancel DownB, You catch them or you get a shield break.
As for advice on Fox, earn what you need to do (grab, zone off the ledge, etc.) and how you're going to do it to this particular player. I think one of the reasons this Mu is easy for me is because of my mental game and my reliance of outsmarting the opponent. Get fox into a rock-paper-scissors situation and cover as many options as you can (eggs let you pressure correct options for free, just toss one to cover a roll-away and they won't choose it). Basically, get him on the ground so you can call him out on his tech. Lastly, I hope you were using Rising Nairs, they are insanely useful in the MU.

Also, I had trouble because both DK and Ganon MUs require dynamic aerial spacing that I frankly can't do on keyboard. I need a mayflash so bad.

 

[Mumbo]

How you deal with fox is you have to know what kind of pressure he's dealing and what to do about it. If you cc a Dair, you can bring up shield at any time. the moment when you'd SDI something is when you roll away or behind him. Dtilt beat a ton of foxes moves and even if it trades, it's good to give yourself breathing room. Spacies MU is really a combo or be combo-ed kind of fight. Getting one grab can be death for Fox if you're prepared for any option he chooses to get away. You said he was shining you out of Uthrow Usmash? Either he's frame perfect or you're not fast enough or both, but the moment he did that, you should then choose to go Uthrow Utilt instead because Utilt is faster and it can lead to a Nair. Also, watch your percentage, at 85%~ you're in danger of a Usmash death, switch your play to defensive. The key is to know when to tank, when to shield, when to space and when to go all in. Here's a little trick I learned recently, maybe I'm scrubby for not realizing, but I just figured out you can reverse a grounded yoshi bomb and the initial hitbox will come out behind you. So (really in any MU) as an example you could Dair on them/their shield. If you get a Full or near-Full Dair, then land behind them and Lcancel DownB, You catch them or you get a shield break.
As for advice on Fox, earn what you need to do (grab, zone off the ledge, etc.) and how you're going to do it to this particular player. I think one of the reasons this Mu is easy for me is because of my mental game and my reliance of outsmarting the opponent. Get fox into a rock-paper-scissors situation and cover as many options as you can (eggs let you pressure correct options for free, just toss one to cover a roll-away and they won't choose it). Basically, get him on the ground so you can call him out on his tech. Lastly, I hope you were using Rising Nairs, they are insanely useful in the MU.

Also, I had trouble because both DK and Ganon MUs require dynamic aerial spacing that I frankly can't do on keyboard. I need a mayflash so bad.

My edgeguards were on point. My techchases and jab resets were really good. My recovery and my offensive recoveries (nairing back to stage) went really well. I had problems with neutral (which is the be expected given fox has one of the best neutrals in the game), dealing with pressure, and getting juggles were hard, much harder than any fox.

Do you suggest using rising nairs in neutral or was that about edgeguarding?

And how should i use eggs in neutral? Should i throw them far to make him jump over them/run under them? Close to stuff approaches? I dont have a good grasp on eggs in neutral yet.

 

[TomBoComBo]

My edgeguards were on point. My techchases and jab resets were really good. My recovery and my offensive recoveries (nairing back to stage) went really well. I had problems with neutral (which is the be expected given fox has one of the best neutrals in the game), dealing with pressure, and getting juggles were hard, much harder than any fox.

Do you suggest using rising nairs in neutral or was that about edgeguarding?

And how should i use eggs in neutral? Should i throw them far to make him jump over them/run under them? Close to stuff approaches? I dont have a good grasp on eggs in neutral yet.

rising Nair is interesting to use in neutral, not really what you need for the MU, but it's good to get away from pressure.
Eggs are good for neutral as long as you're:
both in the air and you have more than enough space to throw them
at least double the distance away of the shortest angle
fox has just been knocked into a tech decision (tech roll, tech, 'miss-tech', ect).
you are at least at full-hop height traveling away from him and throwing a reverse

Eggs can give Yoshi more dynamic approaches. Even if it's reflected or perfect shielded, if you're ready to follow up on simply the opponent's Decision to do something about the egg, you'll get in. Best case scenario, they shield, free grab. if they spot dodge, you get a grab. The reverse is also just as true, if they focus you and ignore the egg, you get whatever you want (if your aim is good and you thought ahead). experiment, any time you're just floating in momentary safety, an egg can be thrown. Where can it go that makes your opponent mentally follow it? even if it's brief, that's all you want to do.

 

[theOVEN]

wow, I'm coming out of lurk mode for the first time ever to post about my favorite character...I'm happy I'm one of the featured videos! Those of you who might've seen me on netplay are probably aware that I'm absolutely clueless for the most part when it comes to spacies MUs, in that set you can actually see me learning as I go along vs. colum's fox (and a top tier SD in g1, that ain't 3.5). I like to think I've progressed a lot since May, today I'd probably go for a lot more reverse djc nair approaches and uthrow chain grabs, and less randomly thrown out butt bombs, especially on a wide open stage like PS2. I like to think my yoshi's advanced considerably...I almost beat orly in bracket this weekend, I wish we had a recording of that set -_-)

 

[zubat]

Ahhhhhh fax. such an annoying match up, thankfully i know how to gimp him and this guide is quite useful! i do like killing fox with a weak spot nair or even a D-tilt on ledge. I only lose to one fox and its my crewmate since he knows this match up far too well.

 

[Garr]

Love how the matchup poll doesn't have an option for the odds being in Fox's favor...

 

[Damp]

T

Love how the matchup poll doesn't have an option for the odds being in Fox's favor...

There is no such thing as bias

 

[DiZZ]

Hey its Noghrilla and I personally think fox wins this update 3.5 55 45 last update it was evenish but still pretty stage dependent. Fox makes yoshi have 0 options oos and is huge threat in neutral and can di out of some of the combos you guys believe to be true combos by wiggling out and shinning (has to be frame perfect but a good fox in the mu will always do it) Fox will just laser camp yoshi and eggroll on shield is pretty bad as of now allowing for a shine out oos from fox to wavedash grab/ another waveshine. If anything you guys should try to find something in neutral v spacies because as of now I believe yoshi is always at the disadvantage of having to approach fox.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Hey its Noghrilla and I personally think fox wins this update 3.5 55 45 last update it was evenish but still pretty stage dependent. Fox makes yoshi have 0 options oos and is huge threat in neutral and can di out of some of the combos you guys believe to be true combos by wiggling out and shinning (has to be frame perfect but a good fox in the mu will always do it) Fox will just laser camp yoshi and eggroll on shield is pretty bad as of now allowing for a shine out oos from fox to wavedash grab/ another waveshine. If anything you guys should try to find something in neutral v spacies because as of now I believe yoshi is always at the disadvantage of having to approach fox.

fight me