Fox Secondary help?

[TheNightRider]

I struggle finding a secondary for Fox. I know that Sheik, Pikachu, Diddy, MK and Mario are a few good secondaries for Fox, but I'm not having much fun with them, I don't know.
I enjoy playing Captain Falcon a lot, but he would be pretty much useless.
Advice?

 

[EpicSonicLatios]

If you don't like any of the secondaries, you can just solo main fox honestly. But having a secondary is great, pretty much everyone at a top level has one. If you think falcon is fun, don't drop him if he isn't a "good secondary". I play charizard still even though he probably doesn't do much for me, but I love playing zard. But for matchup purposes, you want a character that does well against rosa, luigi, Kirby, and ness, because these tend to be the MU's that fox mains say are hard. Notice similarities in these characters? They are all floaty, hard to combo, and relatively light. Therefore, I think you should use someone who doesn't rely on combos, or has combos that work on floaties, while also having the kill power to take advantage of their light weights. There are a multitude of characters that fit this role, but personally I use link. Link has kill power everywhere, and his zoning capabilities are especially good against luigi, Kirby, and ness, characters that can struggle to approach. He also doesn't need his combos to win, and he is heavy enough to take a beating and keep fighting. It's really up to you which character you pick, but in my opinion, you should pick someone with these traits.

 

[luke_atyeo]

you can pretty much go one of two ways, you can choose a secondary that plays very similar to fox so you can add some variation into your play to make it harder for people to learn you and be prepared for you (In my experience pikachu is the next closest character in idea and playstyle to fox)
OR
the much more common way to go, is to pick up a secondary that covers foxes bad matchups. Since fox doesn't seem to have any particularly bad matchups, you dont nessacarily NEED a secondary at all, but if there are any matchups you are just done with trying to win with fox, look up what characters can deal with those matchups.

Also ask yourself this, do you need a secondary? Would the time you'd normally invest in learning a whole new character be better spent improving your fox? If you enjoy playing captain falcon, why not play captain falcon? Does your secondary need to be an amazing fix all your problems character? (which doesnt really exist anyway)

 

[Kanunuu]

I didn't like sheik at first either, but with effort I found her playstyle really enjoyable. She suits him very well in terms of match up spread, as she wins some of foxes harder matchups, such as pikachu, sheik, and rosa. Another character I would reccomend is Cloud. He compliments fox very well with his far superior aerial speed, and can out camp some of foxes harder match ups. I also think villager is a solid fox secondary but you will probably still struggle with the rosa matchup. You don't truthfully need a secondary unless you have an unwinnable match up. I think foxes hardest match up is rosa, and I think falcon does really well against her or at least goes even.

 

[DKGrayson]

I reluctantly picked up Fox as a secondary to Marth, and now I pretty much don't play anyone other than Fox.

I love Fox

 

[NoSharp]

In my opinion the best character for secondaries for Fox are either Meta Knight or Sheik, they cover pretty much all his bad match-ups, specially Meta Knight giving Kirby and Rosaluma a really hard time.

 

[Kanunuu]

In my opinion the best character for secondaries for Fox are either Meta Knight or Sheik, they cover pretty much all his bad match-ups, specially Meta Knight giving Kirby and Rosaluma a really hard time.

I think meta knight still loses to sheild and to sheik, something that fox often has trouble with to. I would recommend a character that has the tools to deal with shield, such as diddy or sheik.

 

[NoSharp]

I think meta knight still loses to sheild and to sheik, something that fox often has trouble with to. I would recommend a character that has the tools to deal with shield, such as diddy or sheik.

Yeah Fox struggles against shield but I honestly don't think it's a reason to get a secondary, just learn to deal with shield as Fox, at higher percents up throw to try to get an up air or forward throw to get into an edgeguard situation, either by using ledge trump to bair, f smash on the edge, fair to drag opponents down into footstool or just rack up more damage. Because any character can sit in shield, so it's a must to know how to deal with it. But Meta Knight does better than Fox vs shields, his back throw kills at like 140 at the edge (I'm not sure) and his up throw can kill really early on high platforms like Battlefield or Dreamland.
And I honestly prefer the using Fox than any secondary to go against Shiek, the matchup is like 45-55 in my opinion it is very doable, I would use Sheik or Metaknight to go against hard matchups like Lugi, Kirby or Rosaluma.

 

[Kanunuu]

And I honestly prefer the using Fox than any secondary to go against Shiek, the matchup is like 45-55 in my opinion it is very doable, I would use Sheik or Metaknight to go against hard matchups like Lugi, Kirby or Rosaluma.

If you want my honest opinion fox goes even. Whoever wins neutral is going to rack up a **** ton of damage to do their combos on each other. But fox out damages her, out camps out, and out 'kills' her. The only issue is her edgegaurding. Fox can make it back yes, but she often nullifies your side b with d tilt, and needles. Most Foxes are anything but optimal, so instead of getting like 60 percent combos, they get maybe 40 or 20. Making the matchup really hard. I really do recommend a secondary to to Foxes other bad matchups. (Sheik, pika, zss, bayo.)

 

[Foster J.]

Meta Knight doesn't lose to shield (I want what you're smoking), that's where you're wrong.
MK can set up "read" like situations from his Dthrow at higher percentages, together with a kill throw that makes you ban Platform stages and a Bthrow that can force you into getting edge guarded depending on where you stand.

The thing that is keeping the MU evenish is just how neutral is played out.

But speaking of picking up a secondary, Luke already explained the overall picture, of:
A: Adding another hand to play
B: Covering Match Ups

In my case, I feel like Cloud covers most of Fox's bad MU's and can be slightly reminiscent of Brawl Fox in the sense of running away and charging limit is very rewarding, as how laser spam was in the previous games.

 

[Kanunuu]

Meta knight has no reliable way to initiate the kill combo outside of dash attack up tilt and grab, but grab and dash attack can both be di'd in order to prevent that. While it is difficult to di dash attack on reaction, d throw is not. Since d throw, dash attack, and up tilt lose to sheild, he loses to sheild since this is his primary source of damage. At later percents he has f smash, but that's not the issue. If you can't get anywhere in neutral, you're not going to win the game. I'm not saying it's impossible, but do to the strengths of shield, and how many characters can out camp him, he loses to shield. None of his aerials are safe on shield either.

 

[NoSharp]

The thing is Meta Knight doesn't rely on the kill combo a 100% he can dash forward throw at kill percent to shuttle loop, a grab can also be used to keep racking damage until you can kill with back throw or up throw, you just need to learn how to deal with shield. Also staying in shield vs MK is not a good idea, he can charge an f smash and wait for you to drop shield and if you don't then he takes a ton of shield damage with him plus f smash being unpunishable on normal shield makes it really scary to stay in shield vs MK. He really does have a lot of tools to deal with shield and you can get around shield with Fox too, you just need to learn how to do it.

 

[Kanunuu]

Both up throw and back throw take a long time to kill, even on dreamland/battlefields platform. If you camp the ledge, there is little meta knight can do. I'm not saying that he can't win, just that his neutral is very predictable and subpar, something that fox can sometimes struggle with as well.

 

[DKGrayson]

Samus?

Just watched Izaw's video...

 

[Foster J.]

This isn't the damn MU thread DKGrayson lmao

 

[NoSharp]

Samus?

Just watched Izaw's video...

Do you mean Samus as a secondary or are you looking for someone to counterpick Samus? Because if it's the second one then there is no need because Fox wins that matchup

 

[WoolMoth]

Samus?

Just watched Izaw's video...

I honestly Co main samus and fox not because they cover each others match ups well but because they cover different game style counter picks. Some people do worse against high pressure aggressive fox while some do worse against a slow campy defensive samus. Also I feel more comfortable against some matchups with samus because I have a habit of choking and dying to hard hitting characters when they get rage while looking for kills. (I'm looking at you Ike) But with Samus I don't have to worry about dying early or over committing because I can just win via defensive options and charge shot. The two different play styles go hand and hand IMO.

 

[NoSharp]

I honestly Co main samus and fox not because they cover each others match ups well but because they cover different game style counter picks. Some people do worse against high pressure aggressive fox while some do worse against a slow campy defensive samus. Also I feel more comfortable against some matchups with samus because I have a habit of choking and dying to hard hitting characters when they get rage while looking for kills. (I'm looking at you Ike) But with Samus I don't have to worry about dying early or over committing because I can just win via defensive options and charge shot. The two different play styles go hand and hand IMO.

Nice point of view, also if you feel good with that secondary then **** it keep using him, look at Larry, do you think DK covers Shiek well? Hell no dude but he feels confident while using the kong! And that works out great for him.

 

[DKGrayson]

Do you mean Samus as a secondary or are you looking for someone to counterpick Samus? Because if it's the second one then there is no need because Fox wins that matchup

I meant as a second to Fox; I wasn't asking about the MU

I have a pocket Samus.