For anyone questioning why everyone flies so far after getting hit.

[ImaClubYou]

Actually I found these results to be the same for me as well. When I upSmash a Greninja with Little Mac at 96% he surprisingly didn't go very far, however at 102% he would be KO'd. Like I was saying in my last post all characters except for heavy weights get knocked out by LM's upSmash at 100% or higher. But anything lower then that does not work.

This is completely consistent with results. I played around 140 matches over 14 hours. I won the majority of my matches with three to six KOs. The main reason I was winning so much was because of my understanding of KO percentages. 100% or over was a guaranteed KO without any doubts. Knock back isn't random, small differences in percentages have a larger effect in this game. Certain thresholds have to be met.

So what you're saying is there is a potentially new mechanic/playstyle to the game that incorporates % thresholds in a more extreme manner?

If so, this can be revolutionary but I need more evidence here. I hope you played other characters besides Little Mac in the time you played.

 

[Venks]

So what you're saying is there is a potentially new mechanic/playstyle to the game that incorporates % thresholds in a more extreme manner?

If so, this can be revolutionary but I need more evidence here. I hope you played other characters besides Little Mac in the time you played.

Yup this is potentially something big. I noticed the same thing with Samus, Bowser, and the Villager. For instance the Villager's tree is devastating if it crashes into someone one after being chopped down. If it hits after 50% I've seen it knock someone from the right edge of Battlefield all the way into the left blast zone. But at 45% the hit character didn't go anywhere near as far.

Unfortunately I don't have any footage to prove my claims, but it seemed pretty consistent in my matches. The Nintendo Staff at Oz Comic Con and my local Nintendo Experience are both saying that the demo is going to be made available to the public again before the release of the 3DS version. There is no set date, but I'm told it will happen sometime after Pokemon National tournament.

Edit: This is of course in regard to Australia. No one knows if Smash will be made available else where.

 

[Hong]

@ Venks
Nah. You don't need footage. I believe you.

From a design standpoint, a random launch algorithm is just going to ramp up the time they need to spend fine-tuning the moves, and they actually just lose freedom in design. This is because if the RNG makes something launch too little, some attacks will actually become exponentially stronger than they were supposed to since they had assumed some kind of minimum launch to prevent an immediate followup. A lot of attacks also just might not outright work as intended at low percentages. Because of that, they would have to increase launch to such a degree that everything is balanced around the most minimum variable, and people are going to be getting wrecked by a Mario fsmash every now and then at like 25% or something because the game rolled at the highest variable. Mr. Sakurai is not always against RNG, but it's just horrendously impractical from a technical standpoint.

So if not by design, could it have been a bug? In this case, I think not. Since we have evidence of so-called variable launch on non-multihit attacks, we can't peg it on something as simple as people DIing before the last hit of an attack. What is more is there are no samples of this supposed phenomenon with attacks that should have no sweetpoints or ulterior conditions to make for severe changes; when you use that move and it lands, you know what you're going to get. So that's out of the question, but what about a more technical bug? Say, something like environmental pushboxes somehow lagging behind character models, going where they are not intended, and altering the physics of launches. Again, something like this, while it is a demo build, is something I highly doubt would allude notice since it would basically be affecting the game noticeably all the time. Going to have to write that possibility off as well.

So in summary, I could never think for a logical reason why characters would be suffering variable launch like the thread initially stated, beyond the expected perimeters of course design; such as %, stale move negation, etc. There is plenty of reason to suspect there is merely an increase in severity of any of those factors. Whether it be moves stagnate at a faster rate, % having a higher emphasis, or there being some flat numerical threshold where things take an increase in launch. I doubt the last one, but I'm just listing possibilities. All in all, I don't think RNG is involved with launch in an environment without customization.

I'm still thankful @ ImaClubYou posted this, since at the very least it brought on a discussion highlighting just how outdated the build is. In any event, as the product is refined, we can rest easy knowing the product will have had roughly five months minimum of development time between what we saw and what is released on the 3DS, assuming it was compiled in March at the latest. In the mean time, during speculation, yeah the community will make the wrong calls every now and then. People are thirsty for knowledge and it doesn't help that the folks who tried to test things on the June demo did not do the best job and we ended up with a lot of false information.

 

[LancerStaff]

@ Venks
People are thirsty for knowledge and it doesn't help that the folks who tried to test things on the June demo did not do the best job and we ended up with a lot of false information.

I'm not even trusting the demo anymore. Pit has a pretty big change between the two versions I played: His Dspecial either pushes (Wii U) or hurts. (3DS, and I used it on a character too, knowing wind moves hurt SSE enemies regardless.)

The demo was fun and showed off alot, but now it feels like it was a waste of time with the mechanics being so distorted.

 

[Venks]

I'm not even trusting the demo anymore. Pit has a pretty big change between the two versions I played: His Dspecial either pushes (Wii U) or hurts. (3DS, and I used it on a character too, knowing wind moves hurt SSE enemies regardless.)

The demo was fun and showed off alot, but now it feels like it was a waste of time with the mechanics being so distorted.

Are you sure? Smash Run is pretty chaotic so you might of seen it wrong or had some random effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXICr1VIEw&feature=youtu.be&t=2m42s
In this video Pit's down special does not deal damage, it only pushes just like it does in the Wii U version.

 

[LancerStaff]

Are you sure? Smash Run is pretty chaotic so you might of seen it wrong or had some random effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXICr1VIEw&feature=youtu.be&t=2m42s
In this video Pit's down special does not deal damage, it only pushes just like it does in the Wii U version.

I was playing the game myself, and rather clearly hit TL with the GOs and delt damage, and my friend watching saw the exact same thing. No items, no reflected projectiles, no pushing, just outright damage and weak knockback. I did it right at the beginning too, to ensure items wouldn't of spawned.

 

[Venks]

I was playing the game myself, and rather clearly hit TL with the GOs and delt damage, and my friend watching saw the exact same thing. No items, no reflected projectiles, no pushing, just outright damage and weak knockback. I did it right at the beginning too, to ensure items wouldn't of spawned.

What do you think caused it to hit? It just seems weird since no one else is seeing this down+B damage. Perhaps it's based on positioning? There are a lot of things that haven't been tested out too well.

 

[nessokman]

Still isn't melee, 0/10 would not bang

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

I don't get why people are complaining about grab kills, Ness's on brawl kills at almost the same percent.

Still isn't melee, 0/10 would not bang

I don't get people like you, just stick to Melee? Lol Or PM, which ever one works best for you.

 

[Bladeviper]

I don't get why people are complaining about grab kills, Ness's on brawl kills at almost the same percent.

it because throws are much harder now to follow up on if possible at all

 

[Venks]

it because throws are much harder now to follow up on if possible at all

It's really character, throw, and percentage dependent. Villager and Little Mac have some throw combos. We'll have to wait and see if other characters have them or get them once the game releases.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

it because throws are much harder now to follow up on if possible at all

I understand, maybe they did this to prevent chain-grabs but some grabs may have combo follow ups maybe?

 

[ImaClubYou]

I don't get why people are complaining about grab kills, Ness's on brawl kills at almost the same percent.

I think it's more so that all the grab options, or at least 90%, are potentially kill throws. It's to the point where grabbing has no other use but to get you off stage and to kill at 100%.

No tech chase potential, no combo potential for most of the cast, and nothing unique about every grab. They all do the same thing.

Bowser's down throw used to keep opponents close, now it launches them at 0%

 

[LancerStaff]

What do you think caused it to hit? It just seems weird since no one else is seeing this down+B damage. Perhaps it's based on positioning? There are a lot of things that haven't been tested out too well.

It could be positioning or something, but then that'd mean I got a one-in-a-million shot. There's atleast four versions that were played. Wii U E3, Wii U BB, 3DS E3, and 3DS BB. 3DS BB didn't get alot of videos recorded, and wasn't even at all BBs with the demo. It could simply be I saw one aspect of one character on one version that people didn't pay attention to.

Unless the shields only damage when they've reflecting projectiles, which would be pretty bizarre and basically impossible to hit people with, Pit's Dspecial dealt damage on my game.

 

[Venks]

It could be positioning or something, but then that'd mean I got a one-in-a-million shot. There's atleast four versions that were played. Wii U E3, Wii U BB, 3DS E3, and 3DS BB. 3DS BB didn't get alot of videos recorded, and wasn't even at all BBs with the demo. It could simply be I saw one aspect of one character on one version that people didn't pay attention to.

Unless the shields only damage when they've reflecting projectiles, which would be pretty bizarre and basically impossible to hit people with, Pit's Dspecial dealt damage on my game.

Fair enough. Though the Nintendo reps are telling me there are only two builds. The Wii U one and the 3DS one. Apparently the builds playable by the masses at E3, Best Buy, Nintendo World Store, Japan, Italy, and Oz Comic Con are all the same builds. Still though I have no reason to disbelieve you about his down+B dealing damage.

Do you remember which character you hit with the down+B? Perhaps that can help with the speculation of what caused the damage.

 

[LancerStaff]

Fair enough. Though the Nintendo reps are telling me there are only two builds. The Wii U one and the 3DS one. Apparently the builds playable by the masses at E3, Best Buy, Nintendo World Store, Japan, Italy, and Oz Comic Con are all the same builds. Still though I have no reason to disbelieve you about his down+B dealing damage.

Do you remember which character you hit with the down+B? Perhaps that can help with the speculation of what caused the damage.

Toon Link, pretty much ran straight into it.

And wasn't there definitely two Wii U versions? Something about the direction you faced after rolling, but I can't remember which was which.

 

[Venks]

Toon Link, pretty much ran straight into it.

And wasn't there definitely two Wii U versions? Something about the direction you faced after rolling, but I can't remember which was which.

Yeah, good point. I think the Invitational Build and general E3 build were different. I assume we were all playing the general E3 builds. Given the fact that our builds don't have the option for Stock while the Invitational one did.