For anybody miss zedla/shiek transformation down b?

[Baddest bih]

I know the change in smash 4 made them better as viability but I still miss switching characters on friends and surprising them. One minute I’m annoying shiek and the next I’m powerful Zelda. You could also use it to avoid final smashes. They should’ve added as a custom move in this game

 

[Coolboy]

what funny is that Sheik used to be the better fighter but now Zelda is waaay better then Sheik! so it would be a huge nerf for Zelda if she gets stuck with Sheik again :o
soooo i don't miss it at all

 

[Xelrog]

When I heard Pokemon Trainer was coming back, knowing that Charizard had four special moves, it really made me hope that there would be a special command to change Pokemon like Inkling has for reloading (special + shield). I then hoped this would be able to apply to the other transformation characters, as well.

Alas, my hopes were for naught. I know it would make balancing more difficult, but man, it would be cool to transform as Zelda again.

 

[Buuhan]

what funny is that Sheik used to be the better fighter but now Zelda is waaay better then Sheik! so it would be a huge nerf for Zelda if she gets stuck with Sheik again :o
soooo i don't miss it at all

That’s more opinionated, they are both pretty decent fighters overall.

 

[Lenidem]

I don't really miss this transformation. It was kinda fun in Melee, but most of the time I was playing as Sheik anyway, so the mechanic itself didn't really work. Plus in Ocarina, Zelda/Sheik didn't transform all the time and were presented as two independent characters until the very end of the game. So all in all, I prefer having two full characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Glad it's gone. Pissed that they brought it back for Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Transforming is lame and busted for both players. It's better that ZSS and Sheik don't have to deal with that. Just wish they didn't do it for PT.

 

[Lenidem]

I still have to test it (still don't have a Switch), but in Pokémon Trainer case I really like the idea. Wish there was an option to play each Pokémon separately though.

 

[channel_KYX]

I like it that way. Makes balance easier.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I wouldn't mind transformations coming back to other fighters, but there is no way I would accept it if it replaced Down Special.

There have been much better ways to implement transformations for Zelda and Sheik since Smash Melee. Taunting has given some characters like Luigi, Kirby, and Greninja extra attacks or versatility in combat, and Inkling's ability to refill her ink tank is a Shield Special. Why not use one of those? It's not like every fighter absolutely needs three legitimate taunts to be complete anyways.

 

[ssbashworld]

If they did bring it back I think both zelda/sheik and samus/zs samus should use a taunt to change, no specials or final smashes, same should be implement with pokemon trainer (would work even better if you use multiple taunts here so you can quickly go from say squirtle to charizard without going through ivysaur)

 

[Quillion]

Totally agree that transformation should be Taunt or Shield-B. But I don't want it to be as wild as Zelda/Sheik. Just have something where Ganondorf gets different normals with his sword, but keep the same specials.

Limited transformations would be better.

 

[Diddy Kong]

what funny is that Sheik used to be the better fighter but now Zelda is waaay better then Sheik! so it would be a huge nerf for Zelda if she gets stuck with Sheik again :o
soooo i don't miss it at all

Zelda isn't way better. She's probably still worse. Both are estimated to be Low Tier though, but Sheik still has potential. So I would say Sheik is still better.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

If they did bring it back I think both zelda/sheik and samus/zs samus should use a taunt to change, no specials or final smashes, same should be implement with pokemon trainer (would work even better if you use multiple taunts here so you can quickly go from say squirtle to charizard without going through ivysaur)

This was something I wanted. I would replace their side taunts so with the press of Left or Right on the taunt pad, you can change to either Pokémon at will and not have to worry about going through a Pokémon you don't want to be stuck as. For example, I dislike Charizard and would rather jump from Ivysaur directly to Squirtle when I want to change Pokémon. This taunt system will assure you can go in either direction at will.

It also frees up their Down Specials, so added bonus to those mains (one I think Pokémon Trainer could benefit from).

 

[Quillion]

This was something I wanted. I would replace their side taunts so with the press of Left or Right on the taunt pad, you can change to either Pokémon at will and not have to worry about going through a Pokémon you don't want to be stuck as. For example, I dislike Charizard and would rather jump from Ivysaur directly to Squirtle when I want to change Pokémon. This taunt system will assure you can go in either direction at will.

It also frees up their Down Specials, so added bonus to those mains (one I think Pokémon Trainer could benefit from).

Alternatively, make it like Shulk's new Monado Arts and have it be selected by Shield-B+Stick.

 

[Coolboy]

Zelda isn't way better. She's probably still worse. Both are estimated to be Low Tier though, but Sheik still has potential. So I would say Sheik is still better.

Zelda is so not low tier... idk who told you this? o.o
i'm not saying shes top tier nor super tier etc but shes at least mid tier. while Sheik is low tier since she refuses to kill others even at high damage, and not all her moves work that great either.
Zelda's moves on the other hand do what their supposed to do!

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Alternatively, make it like Shulk's new Monado Arts and have it be selected by Shield-B+Stick.

With this though, there's no way to do it in the air because that would require you to use a ground restricted move to activate it. Also, Shulk still has the same move set, and half of his general statistics remain unchanged for most of the arts. Monado Arts fits the role of a special move fine. I see no reason for it to be affected by this idea for transformation moves.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda is so not low tier... idk who told you this? o.o
i'm not saying shes top tier nor super tier etc but shes at least mid tier. while Sheik is low tier since she refuses to kill others even at high damage, and not all her moves work that great either.
Zelda's moves on the other hand do what their supposed to do!

She's still exploitable, light, laggy, and therefore punishable. Zelda is definitely Low Tier. And so is Sheik, but by design alone Sheik is much better. She just struggles to kill a lot. Zelda struggles to hit people a lot.

 

[Coolboy]

She's still exploitable, light, laggy, and therefore punishable. Zelda is definitely Low Tier. And so is Sheik, but by design alone Sheik is much better. She just struggles to kill a lot. Zelda struggles to hit people a lot.

then you must have different experiences with Zelda...cause when i play Zelda i don't struggle that much with the things you are mentioning,
and hitting people with Zelda is not hard when you know which moves to use cause only a few moves (most of her air attacks) are based on the opponent's size whether they will easily hit or not, Zelda performs better on stage when it comes to hitting others then she does in the air.

 

[Quillion]

With this though, there's no way to do it in the air because that would require you to use a ground restricted move to activate it.

Ugh, why do people keep saying this whenever I bring up Shield-B? It's like people can't imagine canceling an air dodge (first few frames or otherwise) into Shield B.

 

[osby]

I like transformations but they are hard to balance. Considering current Zelda and Sheik have their own set of functional specials, it was best to keep them separate, even though switching can be fun.

Ugh, why do people keep saying this whenever I bring up Shield-B? It's like people can't imagine canceling an air dodge (first few frames or otherwise) into Shield B.

Because it might be too hard for casual players to use transformation reliably in the air.

 

[Quillion]

Because it might be too hard for casual players to use transformation reliably in the air.

Then they can have the air dodge cancelled into Shield-B at any point in the air dodge. I think that's fine as long as Shield-B is never a real attack because defensive attacks like that can quickly get annoying.

 

[Diddy Kong]

then you must have different experiences with Zelda...cause when i play Zelda i don't struggle that much with the things you are mentioning,
and hitting people with Zelda is not hard when you know which moves to use cause only a few moves (most of her air attacks) are based on the opponent's size whether they will easily hit or not, Zelda performs better on stage when it comes to hitting others then she does in the air.

Zelda is a little better than in Smash 4 yes, but still a bad character overall. Yeah you might have your own successes with her, sure. And congrats. So do I with Diddy, I am succesful with him, doesn't mean he's not way worse than in Smash 4 or Brawl. Perspective my dude. Zelda isn't a good character, and it would do good for you to realize that before you have expectations about the character that aren't realistic.

 

[Xelrog]

I would personally prefer a few I-frames to the knight from the game no one liked or cares about.

That said, a few I-frames aren't better than Bouncing Fish.

 

[Teeb147]

Considering bouncing fish and all that, I would probably only want it for down-b if they're buffed a little besides that.

But yes, I do miss being able to transform with them. If it'd be like people are saying, without removing down-b, I'd be 100% for it. Especially that they're not currently overpowered, so it could help them both.