Flavorless Mafia III: Game Over. Who Won?

[#HBC | Kary]

I need some sleep, man. I think i'm becoming increasingly incoherent. Y'all can stew on what I've said, deadline is about 28hrs away.

 

[Xivii]

Votecount 2.6

2. UtopianPoyzin
4. Z25: Pokechu
5. Giraffelasergun: UtopianPoyzin, Sabrar
6. Pythag
7. Pokechu
8. Kary
9. Sabrar

Not Voting
Z25, Giraffelasergun, Pythag, Kary;

Important Game Links
Game Links and Vote Counts

Notes:
45 minutes too late...

*= Currently being replaced
^= V/LA

With 7 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 2 is March 22nd, at 11:59 PM EST.

 

[Z25]

It would make sense from my POV if I was the sort of person who liked to gamble on whether an inactive is going to return or not.
That's putting aside the possibility where GLG is town and mafia no kill in order to try and frame him, AND the possibility of a town protective role, etc.

That seconded point I didn’t consider so that’s a fair point. The last is also possible but unlikely they protect the right role.

 

[Sabrar]

ISO on Kary focusing mostly on progression of reads re GLG and others:

#352: "It also seems reasonable to assume that at most one of poyzin / GLG is mafia given their near-constant opposition of one another."
Given the constant anti-Poyzin stand all throughout the day GLG should be town according to this.

#389: first inclination of still having doubts but asks for an out "I really don't want to waste two lynches on lazy townies so if you could show me some of that good stuff I would appreciate it."

#407: interaction with Poyzin feels weird to me. "But if GLG is mafia, what makes you so certain I am his partner in this situation?" normally I wouldn't ask this question from someone who I consider to be scum above everyone else.

#427: makes case against Pokechu, who is the scum-buddy? If still Poyzin (and there is no indication otherwise) then this should again clear GLG.

#437, #440: still no indication that GLG would be a prime suspect

#457: change of direction, contrast to #352, GLG + Poyzin suddenly viable scum-team with no reason given

#492-#499: interested in my case against GLG, accepts some points, denies others.

After all of this #535 comes out of the blue, Kary didn't show any real progression on GLG. There is no case, just constant questions to others what they find scummy in GLG. No explanation on what changed since #352.
To me this feels like scum jumping on the wagon when it looks inevitable.

Others to follow.

 

[Sabrar]

Did Pythag's ISO next to move them off the neutral line. Contrast to Kary's it shows progression with the steps clearly explained. There's not a lot of content nor a real push against anyone but in general I feel good about what there is.
There are a few minor things I question/disagree with but those can wait.

 

[Sabrar]

ISO on Z25:

#365 feels bad.
- I obviously don't have experience with games on this board but I never saw joke kills before, scum always deliberated the NK seriously.
- "And if your gonna to preach to me about staying on a target, your in the same damn boat" is OMGUS-y
- "Please explain to me how I can be proactive if there’s barely substantial evidence and content for me to analyze." This was called out by others as well.

Lot of short posts with little content. Not committing to reads, just having questions to others.

#416 actually feels good, I think scum!Z25 would be less likely to openly reflect on that.

#430 (and #501) I don't like, why not give a list now? Obviously a flip and an NK will help narrow things down, why even mention that?

#476 I don't agree with. It is very useful to compare the content of different people in the same slot, mainly to see whether they are attacking/defending the same person.

And I just can't find any big analysis performed, case built. For someone who complained about lack of content Z25 is not in a hurry to help town by producing some.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

- I obviously don't have experience with games on this board but I never saw joke kills before, scum always deliberated the NK seriously.

I do see where you’re coming from with Z25. The pushing back of their reads list is certainly odd because if they’re town, then they should come to townie conclusions and there shouldn’t be a problem. However, I do like #365 from the perspective of tone, even if the points were disagreeable. Like none of the players in this game would make a joke kill, but the act of bringing it up isn’t that much of a scumtell in my book. I will admit that it was a weak point to bring up, but isn’t scum supposed to always sound more analytical and logical than town? Z25’s second point is his frustration with what he perceives to be hypocracy from Pokechu, and his third point seems like a genuine request for help. In the end, bringing up joke kills actually makes me favor Z25 as town more, as I don’t believe that scum!Z25 would have made the argument of joke kills. In the end, the points that your brought up don’t necessarily make him scum. Like a lack of a big analysis might make it tougher to read the slot, wouldn’t that just make the spot more null? Like I don’t agree with #430 either, but it doesn’t affect my read. Maybe they just don’t want to get anything wrong with the D2 lineup? I don’t agree if that’s what the case is, but it is what it is.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

ISO on Z25:

#365 feels bad.
- I obviously don't have experience with games on this board but I never saw joke kills before, scum always deliberated the NK seriously.
- "And if your gonna to preach to me about staying on a target, your in the same damn boat" is OMGUS-y
- "Please explain to me how I can be proactive if there’s barely substantial evidence and content for me to analyze." This was called out by others as well.

Lot of short posts with little content. Not committing to reads, just having questions to others.

#416 actually feels good, I think scum!Z25 would be less likely to openly reflect on that.

#430 (and #501) I don't like, why not give a list now? Obviously a flip and an NK will help narrow things down, why even mention that?

#476 I don't agree with. It is very useful to compare the content of different people in the same slot, mainly to see whether they are attacking/defending the same person.

And I just can't find any big analysis performed, case built. For someone who complained about lack of content Z25 is not in a hurry to help town by producing some.

EBWOP: meant to quote the whole post.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

ISO on Kary focusing mostly on progression of reads re GLG and others:

#352: "It also seems reasonable to assume that at most one of poyzin / GLG is mafia given their near-constant opposition of one another."
Given the constant anti-Poyzin stand all throughout the day GLG should be town according to this.

#389: first inclination of still having doubts but asks for an out "I really don't want to waste two lynches on lazy townies so if you could show me some of that good stuff I would appreciate it."

#407: interaction with Poyzin feels weird to me. "But if GLG is mafia, what makes you so certain I am his partner in this situation?" normally I wouldn't ask this question from someone who I consider to be scum above everyone else.

#427: makes case against Pokechu, who is the scum-buddy? If still Poyzin (and there is no indication otherwise) then this should again clear GLG.

#437, #440: still no indication that GLG would be a prime suspect

#457: change of direction, contrast to #352, GLG + Poyzin suddenly viable scum-team with no reason given

#492-#499: interested in my case against GLG, accepts some points, denies others.

After all of this #535 comes out of the blue, Kary didn't show any real progression on GLG. There is no case, just constant questions to others what they find scummy in GLG. No explanation on what changed since #352.
To me this feels like scum jumping on the wagon when it looks inevitable.

Others to follow.

ISO on Kary focusing mostly on progression of reads re GLG and others:

#352: "It also seems reasonable to assume that at most one of poyzin / GLG is mafia given their near-constant opposition of one another."
Given the constant anti-Poyzin stand all throughout the day GLG should be town according to this.

#389: first inclination of still having doubts but asks for an out "I really don't want to waste two lynches on lazy townies so if you could show me some of that good stuff I would appreciate it."

#407: interaction with Poyzin feels weird to me. "But if GLG is mafia, what makes you so certain I am his partner in this situation?" normally I wouldn't ask this question from someone who I consider to be scum above everyone else.

#427: makes case against Pokechu, who is the scum-buddy? If still Poyzin (and there is no indication otherwise) then this should again clear GLG.

#437, #440: still no indication that GLG would be a prime suspect

#457: change of direction, contrast to #352, GLG + Poyzin suddenly viable scum-team with no reason given

#492-#499: interested in my case against GLG, accepts some points, denies others.

After all of this #535 comes out of the blue, Kary didn't show any real progression on GLG. There is no case, just constant questions to others what they find scummy in GLG. No explanation on what changed since #352.
To me this feels like scum jumping on the wagon when it looks inevitable.

Others to follow.

You're wasting your time.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

hmm nice double quote kary

 

[Sabrar]

You're wasting your time.

Please tell me oh wise one how doing an ISO is a waste of time? I would love to hear that and be happy to do something else instead.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Please tell me oh wise one how doing an ISO is a waste of time?

You only ISO'd my Day 2.
I'm town

I would love to hear that and be happy to do something else instead.

Disprove my GLG - Poyzin scumteam
Case for Pokechu being town
Case for z25 being scum
etc.

 

[Sabrar]

In the end, the points that your brought up don’t necessarily make him scum.

Agreed. No content ever makes someone necessarily scum, we just vote for whoever is the most scummiest and often get it wrong.

The pushing back of their reads list is certainly odd because if they’re town, then they should come to townie conclusions and there shouldn’t be a problem.
...
Like I don’t agree with #430 either, but it doesn’t affect my read.

If you think it's odd why wouldn't it affect your read? If we're searching for excuses why someone might have posted odd/scummy things as town then we will have little to go on.

 

[Sabrar]

Disprove my GLG - Poyzin scumteam

You haven't addressed my point of you not having any progress on GLG. Where is your case?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You haven't addressed my point of you not having any progress on GLG. Where is your case?

You're voting for him but I have to make a case against him?

There's a pretty obvious reason why you can't see the progression of my GLG read today, it's because he's AWOL.

 

[Pokechu]

I do see where you’re coming from with Z25. The pushing back of their reads list is certainly odd because if they’re town, then they should come to townie conclusions and there shouldn’t be a problem. However, I do like #365 from the perspective of tone, even if the points were disagreeable. Like none of the players in this game would make a joke kill, but the act of bringing it up isn’t that much of a scumtell in my book. I will admit that it was a weak point to bring up, but isn’t scum supposed to always sound more analytical and logical than town? Z25’s second point is his frustration with what he perceives to be hypocracy from Pokechu, and his third point seems like a genuine request for help. In the end, bringing up joke kills actually makes me favor Z25 as town more, as I don’t believe that scum!Z25 would have made the argument of joke kills. In the end, the points that your brought up don’t necessarily make him scum. Like a lack of a big analysis might make it tougher to read the slot, wouldn’t that just make the spot more null? Like I don’t agree with #430 either, but it doesn’t affect my read. Maybe they just don’t want to get anything wrong with the D2 lineup? I don’t agree if that’s what the case is, but it is what it is.

How do you feel about my #531 and #534 against Z? I can bring more up about the buddying.

 

[Sabrar]

You're voting for him but I have to make a case against him?

Yes. If you think scumteam is GLG+Poyzin why do you ask me to make a case for Pokechu being town? See the double standard?

There's a pretty obvious reason why you can't see the progression of my GLG read today, it's because he's AWOL.

Yeah, that's not a reason for a lack in your content.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yes. If you think scumteam is GLG+Poyzin why do you ask me to make a case for Pokechu being town? See the double standard?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you asked for something you could be doing.

Yeah, that's not a reason for a lack in your content.

Actually when I'm trying to read an inactive slot by process of elimination and to try and identify potential partners or people looking to push a mislynch I don't find it helpful to explain all my notes on that player. I think it's counterproductive to give the answers to questions that I am asking. That's if you're asking about my content on GLG.

If you're talking about my content in general, I don't see what the problem is. The majority of players correctly think I'm top town, and I am continuing to push in directions I think need attention and ask ancilliary questions to keep other players honest.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yes.

Oh I missed this little word. I can make the case, lemme get my notes.

 

[Sabrar]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you asked for something you could be doing.

I meant something in irl.

Actually when I'm trying to read an inactive slot by process of elimination and to try and identify potential partners or people looking to push a mislynch I don't find it helpful to explain all my notes on that player. I think it's counterproductive to give the answers to questions that I am asking. That's if you're asking about my content on GLG.

I don't follow you here. You're not asking GLG anything, if he's only scum by PoE then you could say so, if not, you could explain yourself without giving answers.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I meant something in irl.

I see.

I don't follow you here. You're not asking GLG anything, if he's only scum by PoE then you could say so, if not, you could explain yourself without giving answers.

I don't think he's scummy by POE. I think he's scummy on what he's posted, but he hasn't posted enough for me to be very confident in that read.
I've spent all Day 2 pushing other players in my lynch pool (Utopian and Pokechu) in order to try and
a) improve my read on GLG by PoE.
b) establish connections between other slots and GLG to identify potential partners or people looking for a mislynch

You can infer from my current position that both GLG and Poyzin are scum that I am feeling more town on Pokechu right now and I am leaning towards z25 vs Pokechu being TvT.

Why would I not provide info about GLG?
Because for example in the case of Poyzin, I feel that his case against GLG is full of confidence but lacking in evidence. This is consistent with a bus in my opinion. If I provide the evidence before I question Poyzin, he can just use or react to the information I provide, which is quite easy for scum to do.
On the other hand, if I wait, and Poyzin independently produces some of the points that I have in my notes, then I can feel confident that Poyzin's case comes from a genuine place and he shares the same town mindset as me.
I usually only share information when I need to push town in the right direction, be that towards a scummy lynch or away from a townie one. My priority is much more on generating content and improving my own reads than spoonfeeding others.

 

[Pokechu]

Did Pythag's ISO next to move them off the neutral line. Contrast to Kary's it shows progression with the steps clearly explained. There's not a lot of content nor a real push against anyone but in general I feel good about what there is.
There are a few minor things I question/disagree with but those can wait.

ISO on Z25:
...Not committing to reads, just having questions to others.

What's the difference between Pythag and Z for you? Like looking through Pythag's posts, doing a thread search, about 20 of his 52 posts are purely asking questions. Like without making an additional observation or commentary like "I think it's town/scum/null because xyz".

Actually what bessie picked up on I liked

Asking GLG how he 'knows' that Raxel (or UP) is joking.

This feels like not that grand of an observation, to back up the way he did. It's about when GLG said "I know they're joking about being scum" but I feel like from the start it was obvious GLG didn't like factually "know," just that chances are they really did not come into the thread and say "we are the scum" LOL

I don't want to hold it against him since he's just putting out his thoughts but it comes off almost as empty posting to me imo. I think there's much interesting things he could have backed up and even with this he didn't add his own commentary. Which is my main problem with his slot, he's asking questions but putting out little analysis. This isn't one of the 20 posts I mentioned either as it's not a question post, so that means there's even less "real" content he's put out.

And I still think how he came into the Day with his post against Z, yet he hasn't much else about Z, is strange. Pythag I meant respond to my Z wall #364 por favor! but if you'd rather respond to my #531 and #534 that's cool too since they're more recent!

preemptively, yes, they could be a team together. I was asked that before.

I'm not good at reading GLG, so my meta analysis is pretty much all that is based on.

This is his #556 and I think it's kind of bad. Like just sitting back and saying "I'm not good at reading him so I'm using meta and that's it." Like it's a good start to form a read!!! But I feel this shows a lack of initiative on his part in that he's not really trying to use what GLG has put out this game.

But I'll go over his more recent posts again since they do definitely show his thought process better and I feel like I could be missing something.

 

[Sabrar]

What's the difference between Pythag and Z for you?

1. As I mentioned Pythag is actually giving reads.
2. I'm making some allowances for irl in case of Pythag. Z had a lot more opportunity to prove themselves.

@Kary: thank you. That's a very well thought-out post.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

If you think it's odd why wouldn't it affect your read? If we're searching for excuses why someone might have posted odd/scummy things as town then we will have little to go on.

Something being odd != scum or town. It is just confusing / unreadable to me.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

GLG read Part 1

I feel like I have an easy time reading you [Pokechu], and will probably decide what your alignment is before End of Day 1 and stick with it for the rest of the game.

This is the first thing that stuck out to me, it feels a bit like GLG is admitting to fabricating his Pokechu read.

Of the games we played together and both played the full game I’m 3 for 3, being Nabe’s Upick, Ryus Fire and ice, and My Mafia Academia.

When I question him about his success rate in reading Pokechu he says he's 3 for 3, but when I point out he's actually 1 out of 2 he doesn't continue.

I would want to see ZestofLife post more before we decide to lynch them. They asked about how our meta compares which leads me to believe they are experienced. Are you worried about they're experience in regards to your lylo fear, or is it more that you want players in lylo that you feel you can Meta read better?

I don't like that Zest has only made one post. I'd be fine with lynching them today if they don't get more active.

I didn’t agree with your desire to lynch them because they were new. I understand your logic behind wanting to do it, but I feel like it’s a lame reason to make a day one Lynch. However, we’re over 60 hours into the phase and they’ve only posted once. Unless they turn that around, I don’t want to play with someone that’s made 10 whole posts the entire game when we’re on day 4

Whichever way I look at it, this seems to be a strange turn of opinion. I was pushing Zesto BOTH because they might be a weak player and because I don't have any meta information about them; and I wasn't committing to lynching them Day 1 either. GLG's stance on this just seems awkward, and when I ask him about the possibility of Zesto being replaced, he disappears.

I want to see Maven's case on Raxxel. Also want Pokechu to post on other things like he promised. Do people have hobbies outside of mafia? That's not allowed.

For someone expressing a tough stance on inactivity, GLG has been remarkably hypocritical in that respect.

None of their content gives me reason to change my vote. He felt the need to say multiple times that he was town, without any prompt. He spent a lot of time talking about his statistical fallacy stuff and posted a read list but hasn't really provided his thoughts behind anything yet.

Why are you voting Maven?

When i ask GLG about his vote, his response is very mediocre, but what pings me in particular is he ends with the 'no u', asking me why I am voting the almost absent Maven. This strikes me as defensive and trying to get attention away from himself rather than a genuine desire to understand my vote.

You're just now doubting my towniness after you made an iso on me two days ago?

This is not a bad point that GLG makes about Poyzin, but when presented all on its own, it feels like a weak attempt at a 'gotcha' and feels more like scum scrambling to try and come up with some sort of comeback.

I think Bessie and Kary have real intention to solve and are good slots to trust. I am getting good vibes from pokechu which always give me pause. Z25 is probably town. Maven going inactive I feel like is not alignment indicative for him, dude always just seems to be busy. For the most part Raxxel has good posts but something about their where they vote for Maven didn't sit right with me. It might be the way he said that if mafia want to show themselves and quick lynch maven then that's fine. I also may just be reading into what he said too much. I don't like that poyzin won't admit his vote on me was for no reason or a joke, like I think that would have been fine to say but the justification he made feels forced. Pythag is null leaning town.

For someone who is most confident in reading Pokechu (discussed above) this is a vague and unhelpful thing to be saying about them.

However, the way that this whole post runs together, the sense of a stream of consciousness, made it feel legitimate to me. As though he was a townie simply trying to get information to help town before deadline. I'm sure I have said it before, but I would typically imagine scum to be panicked and trying to avoid the noose in this situation. This is probably his towniest post to me.

Whenever i listen to KPop I just listen to Gee by girls generation on repeat. Sometimes Run Devil Run as well

again I feel like mafia would usually have other priorities than talking about kpop

Raxxel as a night kill is a bit of a surprise, I went back and looked at people’s reads list and it seemed that Raxxel was a weak town/null leaning town read for most people, so he would probably be a hard person to mislynch later on but wasn’t universally viewed as townie enough to be protected by a potential protective role.

I still want to lynch Utop today but we have a lot of time in the phase still so and I don’t want so spend a second day phase in a row talking about him and only him.

Z25 , Pokechu @bessie Who is the one person you want to lynch most today? You don’t have to post an in depth reason as to why, just want to get a feeling of where everyone’s head is at going into the phase.

As soon as I saw this post I felt I had made a mistake in saving GLG. He brings up the Raxxel kill but the thought doesn't go anywhere, so why mention it? He says he wants Poyzin, doesn't vote, and suggests he wants to talk about other things, as though he can somehow only do one thing at a time.
Finally he is pulling a HARD weathervane here, trying to gauge the opinions of others, in order that he can tell which directions are popular and safe to follow. If GLG didn't have a scumread in his pocket this might be understandable, but in this situation it seems very sketchy to be asking his top townreads for clues instead of pushing on slots he finds more null or scummy.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

GLG read Part 2

Pokechu or Z25. There's been a few posts from pokechu that have been overly buddying with other slots/overly defensive of slots without reasons that striked me as off. I would need to do a reread to find them. With Z25, this is more of a meta thing but I remember him being more proactive in most games than he has is this one.

I asked GLG where he would look if Poyzin flips town. This shows he has ideas that he could be pursuing, but isn't.

A lot of their early posts I didn't really like.

I don't like in two of their first posts they felt the need to call themselves both scum and town. This might be more of a personal opinion, but I'm generally more wary of slots that feel the need to comment their alignment without prompts from other, regardless if they claim scum or town.

Then there were the posts of law of averages.

I feel like the only reason they brought it up initially was a way to say that it's so statistically unlikely they're town, that there is no way they'd be scum. He also dropped it the minute got called out on it, which makes me question why he even brought it up in the first place if he didn't want it to be taken seriously.

There was this random question they asked to pokechu that they barely followed up on.

It looks like he gave a chance for both himself and pokechu to have more content without saying anything about the current gamestate. I would have been fine with this question if it was actually about the current game, but to go out of your way to ask someone else about mafia theory in general feels weird.

This is stuff that has already been touched up on, but going out of way to find ZestOfLife's game history felt weird, I don't like how multiple people(you, Bessie, pythag) asked why his initial vote was on me, made posts without answering the question about his initial vote, and then when he finally answered said "it was just a hunch". If it was a joke vote turned serious that would have been fine, but of the one post I made before he voted for me I don't understand why he decided it was enough to make a justified vote on.

GLG's reason for voting Poyzin seems very weak overall.
Mentioning your own alignment is rarely a tell one way or another. (I questioned him about this... to no reply).
GLG doesn't seem to consider the 'law of averages' could just be poyzin joking around, in the same way that (for example) poyzin voted himself.
If Poyzin was scum he could just as easily ask a random question about the current game.
For some reason having a hunch is not an acceptable in the early game...

In general, I can understand disliking Poyzin for these reasons, but nothing about it seems decisive to me. But GLG seems to be rather confident and settled in his read, not looking to develop it any further, as he said earlier in his opening post:

I still want to lynch Utop today but we have a lot of time in the phase still so and I don’t want so spend a second day phase in a row talking about him and only him.

In essence, this doesn't add up to a townie mindset to me. GLG seems to lack killer instinct (scumhunting), and isn't making further points against Poyzin or asking him questions to demonstrate to town that Poyzin is scum. He also seems TOO focused on Poyzin considering the strengths of the points he brought up, and his relative quiet on other players.

You understand you've been acting as a double vote and are now trying to say you haven't been overly buddying someone? Like there were multiple instances last day phase where Kary tagged you to vote for someone and you did?

Finall, this feels like a very weak point, especially when you consider there was NOT multiple instances and was in fact only one.

Conclusions

I liked GLG's reaction to his waggon and hated a lot other things he did. I cannot point to anything that is a slam dunk in terms of scumminess on GLG, but his overall pattern of behavior; not replying to certain points, not pursuing different scumreads, overall inactivity, and his all-game long opposition to Poyzin is very consistent with mafia behavior in my opinion. If GLG is town he could be doing a LOT more to show that, and I said as much in an attempt to coax something confirmatory out of him.

I only addressed GLG in this review but I believe his position and posts are consistent with a strategy of hard distance and bussing between himself and Poyzin. One thing I wanted to mention is that, the reason I swung the waggon away from GLG Day 1 was that I had an overwhelming sense that GLG was fine with being lynched, that he was not trying to fight the situation. That to me was not a scummy mindset.

Vanilla. Still think my Lynch is better than a maven Lynch because I think I provide more info than he does.

However, given some time after Day 1, I realized that it was strange for GLG to not even vote for Maven, or try to swing the waggon in that direction. While at first I thought this post from him was townie, I think that it only makes sense for GLG to say this when he is town AND confident in Maven also being town. But as we know, Maven was rather inactive and null. So why would a town GLG not fight to defend himself, and want to roll the dice on Maven, who at least has some chance to flip scum?
It's not as if GLG said 'okay lynch me but when I flip town lynch Poyzin'. He also didn't say 'Maven is giving me PR vibes so I won't vote for him'. Given GLG's complete absence at this point, I can only speculate, but it certainly made me wonder if the reason GLG is okay with being lynched is because it was a possibility he had already prepared for, and it was part of the plan; he was being bussed.

Finally, Pokechu asked why lynching GLG before Poyzin gives more information. The answer is that I believe that the game has stalled out to some extent because of GLG's inactivity, and with several players (z25, Pythag, Poyzin), not really willing to move on from that slot without getting some answers. Removing the big question mark from the game, to leave Poyzin who is at least active and participating, gives us more information (or the same information but at an earlier time) than if I happen to be wrong on Poyzin, which still leaves the problem of GLG on the table.
Unless someone wants to argue that a scum Poyzin flip would clear GLG, and that they're confident Poyzin is going to flip scum, this is the correct order to proceed with things from my point of view. Even if I'm wrong on GLG (possible given how few posts he has), his slot is dragging the game down and presents a liability for Lylo.

끝

 

[#HBC | Kary]

For these reasons I'm sure you can understand I intend to vote for GLG before the Day ends, which as a reminder is in around 12 hours time.

 

[Sabrar]

I like Kary's case. I'll be asleep at deadline but didn't plan to switch anyway.

 

[Z25]

ISO on Z25:

#365 feels bad.
- I obviously don't have experience with games on this board but I never saw joke kills before, scum always deliberated the NK seriously.
- "And if your gonna to preach to me about staying on a target, your in the same damn boat" is OMGUS-y
- "Please explain to me how I can be proactive if there’s barely substantial evidence and content for me to analyze." This was called out by others as well.

Lot of short posts with little content. Not committing to reads, just having questions to others.

#416 actually feels good, I think scum!Z25 would be less likely to openly reflect on that.

#430 (and #501) I don't like, why not give a list now? Obviously a flip and an NK will help narrow things down, why even mention that?

#476 I don't agree with. It is very useful to compare the content of different people in the same slot, mainly to see whether they are attacking/defending the same person.

And I just can't find any big analysis performed, case built. For someone who complained about lack of content Z25 is not in a hurry to help town by producing some.

In terms of a reads list, There’s a triad of slots I’m thinking over.

I have decent feelings for them, but ultimately the flip today I believe is going to give me a good inkling of who could be scum. Less the night kill, more the flip I am looking for.

Already said my vote goes to GLG or Pokechu today. I’m honing it in on GLG though because he’s spot is part of the triangle.

I’ll explain more tomorrow. Maybe I’ll get to drafting it today, but I put off things to play animal crossing and need to get those done first.

 

[Z25]

Although in reflecting I can actually see I was a bit narrow minded thinking. If I get night killed tonight that reads list will never come.

So I’m going to try and get that posted tonight actually.

Lastly

Vote: GLG

 

[Pokechu]

giraffelasergun anything you want to say? I won't divorce you if you're town!

I'm not sure GLG is the direction I want to go toDay (ironically a lot of what Kary brought up as him being scum I brought up as him being busy town LOL) but her analysis makes sense.

As soon as I saw this post I felt I had made a mistake in saving GLG. He brings up the Raxxel kill but the thought doesn't go anywhere, so why mention it?

I do have this question though. Where did you want him to go with it? I think it's a complete thought. That he's saying scum would have targeted Raxxel to have a "safe" kill and not worry about a possible protect.

While at first I thought this post from him was townie, I think that it only makes sense for GLG to say this when he is town AND confident in Maven also being town. But as we know, Maven was rather inactive and null. So why would a town GLG not fight to defend himself, and want to roll the dice on Maven, who at least has some chance to flip scum?

And this one!

This is a good observation! But didn't GLG also say that he wasn't surprised by Maven's inactivity? And I think by that point the hosts said that Maven would be replacing out already. So from GLG's PoV it could be that his (GLG) problem (lack of content) wasn't going to be solved unless they found another replacement, but Maven's (inactivity) was already going to be fixed.

But there is always the chance of Maven being scum like you say so I think this goes both ways anyways. just my $0.02

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Voting GLG in ~ 1hour

 

[Z25]

Alright I got what I needed done.

So here’s My current thoughts subject to change based on tonight’s actions.

Town
Utopian:
Kary:
Bessie:
Town lean:
Pythag:



Scum

 

[Z25]

Alright I got what I needed done.

So here’s My current thoughts subject to change based on tonight’s actions.

Town
Utopian:
Kary:
Bessie:
Town lean:
Pythag:



Scum

Stupid mobile I was trying to format this before filling it out

 

[Z25]

Alright I got what I needed done.

So here’s My current thoughts subject to change based on tonight’s actions.

Town
Utopian: Their early content wasn’t great but when they came in with posts like their Kary and GLG breakdown, it felt more townie to me then scum trying to cash in on the building GLG Train. I don’t agree with his Kary point but I’ve seen similar things play out so it’s worth considering and gives a good understanding as to how Utopian may be thinking this game.
Kary: They’ve been active, provide honest thoughts, Their full breakdown on GLG is well written and pretty strong. While keeping things to ones self might be seen as scummy by some, it’s just as useful to a townie would good outlooks though.
Bessie: This slot when in felt like they were really trying to solve and I didn’t see any problem with their content. I don’t know why they left, but I felt confident in their alignment. Their replacement however has such a contrast. More on that later though.

Town lean:
Pythag: They are a quiet slot, but they have still been somewhat active. They’d be a good look at tomorrow or the next day. They aren’t in scum yet because I have bigger feelings on other slots before his.

Null to Scum Lean:
Sab: Very tricky slot. I don’t have experience here with them, but that push right when they caught up and their idea on the scum team feels really odd to me when you look at everything so far. I don’t fully suspect them as scum, but I’m keeping an eye on this one. They were a bit aggressive and it feels very different compared to how Bessie played making me unsure of this slot.


Scum
GLG: Before they went inactive again, their post before they would have been killed seemed like a last minute appeal, possibly to mislead us if we killed them. Almost feels as if after this that they gave up. It’s better to not keep them then to keep them at this point, but their slot has been broken down quite a lot that I don’t really need to say more.
Pokechu: Lack of commitment to their ideas, way to jokey of a personality then usual( as if they are trying to seem fun and appeal to people that way), supporting Kary then kinda of backtracking . Just everything they’ve done feels off to me. I don’t currently trust them.

That’s what my quote was originally going into.

For further reference, the triad is Kary , Utopian, Pokechu.

GLG as a flip can offer a lot of insight into all of these slots depending on alignment. I’ll touch upon that tomorrow though.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

you all done Z25 ?

 

[Z25]

you all done Z25 ?

For now yes, I don’t have anything else to add. Why?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Bessie and Sab are the same slot. How is Bessie town and Sab null-scum?

 

[Z25]

Bessie and Sab are the same slot. How is Bessie town and Sab null-scum?

I explained that. Pre Sab. Bessie looked good. Post Bessie, Sab is acting and playing a lot different l. Which is bound to happen, but it almost feels like they are playing towards a completely different goal with the slightly aggressive style they had going and butting heads with a slot considered top town

 

[#HBC | Kary]

because i'm about to hammer GLG is why