Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[~ Gheb ~]

Weird, I was also thinking that I'm not too impressed by Ryker's play and that it may be something worth pursuing [not having read Mac's post, just seen the vote]. I'll catch up before I get into it though.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It looks like a big contradiction but I reconciled it in one of my earlier posts (#127). Did you read it? Basically I think you were faking when you said you wanted him hammered.

Exactly what was I faking? I straight-up said that I was hoping for somebody to chime in to hammer him. I already had my vote on him. That's about as much as I could've done there. It was not a joke.

What is true though is that I did not expect somebody to actually do it. That doesn't mean I wasn't serious, let alone faking it.

...

I don't know what gives you the idea that I was whining about the condiction of the wagon. Because I said I think the interactions between Soup, Zen and Bardull were worthless? I don't even know how the wagon happened and I never called out Zen for putting Bard at -1 or questioned any of the votes on him. There was no distancing or discrediting the wagon going on like you seem to see. You haven't reconciled anything in my book.

Why did Bardull change?

Disappearance. I want him to do stuff. He was really excited to play the game and now he's not doing anything.

See #HBC | Red Ryu this is why I'm saying you can't give Zen any pro-town credit for taking stances. They're just too random and inconsistent to be of any use. That's why I'm saying that Zen should be null and that the early-game interactions between him, soup and Bardull were a waste of time. Now, you can disagree with that but I'd like you to at least aknowledge that you can see where I'm coming from because this seems to be part of why you're voting me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't really see how Zen's posts till that point could have triggered Ryker enough to make him want to ignore Zen. I don't understand why he's already assuming he'd be jumping down Zen's throat toDay. Especially since clearly Zen was just ****ing around with his vote and there's nothing from his posts that would make it seem like he and Ryker would go at it all Day.

Maybe Ryker's post was supposed to be funny? in a weird reverse sarcasm meta type way and he was only pretending to get worked up over Zen's ****. Idk..

I think that's actually pretty likely fwiw.

What bothers me about Ryker though is how he reacted to me tagging him to hammer off Bardull. The more I think about it the more I doubt that town!Ryker would've commented on it without any following up whatsoever. He'd either ignore it because he'd consider it too insignificant or he'd interrogate the hell out of me - but just mentioning it as a reason to "not read me as town" which he supposedly "almost" did and then not doing anything with it is definitely odd for him. He also hasn't done much else - his votes have been pretty lazy and are similar to mine, just more sparse [as is his input in this game in general] and he has thrown out a townread on Bardull which isn't something I can give him a lot of credit for.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote

I'm not a big fan of Maven's play. Don't know if I should appreciate him clarifying what I was doing [I was kinda hoping for people to figure out **** themselves for once] with asking for Bardull to be hammered but I'm kind of unhappy with how he hasn't contributed anything else that's worth something. Like, what are his reads and where is his head at? Even I, who has been largely unconstructive, have started to take stances on most player so far.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

what's this about

Saw a vote on Ruy which is a place I'd be fine stacking pressure since the Bardull wagon isn't where I want my vote.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Bardull, what do you make of Soup's observations about Maven and When's relationship?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Mac, I mentioned why I voted Ruy when Vult asked.

I'm surprised I'm catching flak for my comment directed at Zen, much less catching it twice, when I did the same thing documentable in the last mafia game on SWF where I was town. Hell, I THINK I did it the last time I played with Zen before that, but I don't remember. I may have just formed the plan and then he quit playing.

For Gheb, I haven't jumped down anyone's throat this game. I don't think I've jumped down anyone's throat in the last bunch of games I've played in. I've also mostly played the first couple of games somewhat slowly and let other things play out. This is an effort to not force every game to revolve around me as they tend to do when I roll into Day 1 playing hardball. I can launch into an entire speech about WHY when it's not in game.

In any case, yes, I'm playing lazily. No, I won't bother extensively to trt and piece together Zen's alignment on D1. It's an exercise in futility and no one would back me up if I decided he needed to go anyway.

Bard is town because he's done more actively trying to read and push the game than anyone on the game save maybe Vult. Soup leans scum because his stance on Bardull was disgusting and wrong.

If you put a gun in my hand with the replacement for Mars, I'd shoot Maven or Soup.

I've been here for them all game, any questions?

 

[Vult Redux]

Regardless, I think Vult's criticism and pairing of Bardull/Gheb is largely invalid

Honestly? You're right <_<

and that I'm not really getting why Vult is being townread.

I've been thinking about this and i noticed that everyone except gheb and you put me as town. It's a red flag for me and was thinking about bringing it up last night but didn't have time to write something up. I think only Ryker put out a reason. Maybe Zen did too; can't remember.

..I guess before I submit this thought Vult suddenly thinks Gheb is town now?

He explained a post and I liked his explanation.

I also really dislike his reads post, mostly because he doesn't give reasons for why he thinks bardull is town and soup leans scum.

IZen town, vult town,

don't hate me but this makes me think you're stretching your case. Why would yourself do something that you are trying to frame as scummy?

esp considering you're like the 4th person to say I'm town without saying why. talk about easy reads.

 

[Vult Redux]

ebwop

I also really dislike his reads post, mostly because he doesn't give reasons for why he thinks bardull is town and soup leans scum.

IZen town, vult town,

don't hate me but this makes me think you're stretching your case. Why would yourself do something that you are trying to frame as scummy?

esp considering you're like the 4th person to say I'm town without saying why. talk about easy reads.

 

[Vult Redux]

What is true though is that I did not expect somebody to actually do it. That doesn't mean I wasn't serious, let alone faking it.

okay, I think we're on the same page now especially because of your #150. I misread you hard.

 

[Vult Redux]

re: ryker

his rvs comment about zen is null. it bothers me that it's even being brought up. I don't see it as relevant. I also have trouble reading certain players; I just try to keep it to myself. to see Mac call it the "scummiest thing". noooope

also imho Ryker has contributed more than Bardull.

yikes i've become a gheb/ryker defense warrior. im disgusted with myself

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

unvote

going to think about this more.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

unvote

going to think about this more.

Think about what?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gheb in general.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gheb, you got that Soup read?

 

[Vult Redux]

Ryu how do you feel about Bardull?

 

[Maven89]

I feel Xivii has the scummiest content with his Bardull vote then his push on Gheb that included straight up lies. It might be laziness on Xivii's part, I have trouble imagining scum lying about the posts they're quoting. At the same time I haven't seen anything else that I find scummier, so I'm keeping my vote. If gun to my head, I'd shoot Xivii. Put him 55%scum if you want.

@Soup: No, I don't really have a problem with Gheb. He voted Bardull in RVS, but then afterwards people were pushing Bardull and Gheb made his comment about hoping Bardull would be quickhammered, I asked him to see if his RVS vote had turned into a real vote at some point, but apparently it didn't. If he had already clarified that at any point then I didn't see it.

I like Vult's play because I do not see it as being manipulative in the least, which makes me read him more pro-town. He comes off super honest and willing to change his reads. Red Ryu I also read as town through his content, same with Bardull. They've generated discussion and done nothing scummy. I don't read Gheb as town due to his content but his attitude towards everything, explained in greater detail in earlier post.

I find Macman's push on Ryker to be bizarre and I'm not convinced by it. I'd include him second in the shooting list.

If deadline was today I'd push for lynching Xivii, as it is I want to see the day play out more because I'm not comfortable with any scum read to have them lynched yet. I also seem to be the only person scumreading Xivii which is confusing me and I haven't seen anyone give reasons for town reading him when I feel there's plenty of reasons to not town read him.

 

[Maven89]

I want #HBC | Mac to justify his Xivii read

 

[Vult Redux]

i guess i should reread Zen

I want #HBC | Mac to justify his Xivii read

i can't believe maven found out the scumteam within the first 300 posts. im shook

vote: mac

 

[Xivii]

I feel Xivii has the scummiest content with his Bardull vote then his push on Gheb that included straight up lies.

There weren't any lies. Your last response (below) didn't make any sense. Even if I am on some .01% chance misreading the situation, it would clearly be a result of confusion rather than scum intent.

Because one is talking about what he'd like to see happen and the other is talking about what he thinks will happen

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu how do you feel about Bardull?

I haven't seen anything bad from the slot and honestly from his responses I find him to be townie with what he posted earlier.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Honestly? You're right <_<

I've been thinking about this and i noticed that everyone except gheb and you put me as town. It's a red flag for me and was thinking about bringing it up last night but didn't have time to write something up. I think only Ryker put out a reason. Maybe Zen did too; can't remember.

He explained a post and I liked his explanation.

I actually do this all the time and it's not inherently scummy. I probably should have gone into more detail in the paragraph but that was my weakest point and i wasn't sure how to word/explain why i think the post is gross. but i'll try

here's the post

Random thoughts before I disappear until Monday:

Zen - Disliked that he put Bardull at L-1, but do like that he backed off.

Maven - Essentially working off one post. Need to see more reads evolve.

Vult - I like him more than most of the thread. Is pushing to move things along.

Bardull - I actually like him, believe it or not. I don't think he's one anything to warrant a lynch.

Mars - Post, bruh. I got nothing.

Gheb - ^

Ruy - I've seen some posting but none of it reads as meaningful.

Soup - IGMEOY. You take a party pooper stance on things and are looking at Bardull who I have no problem with. What are your thoughts on Gheb right now?

Basically Ryker's only gives three reads that weren't null/wishy-washy: reads on you, Bardull and soup. Vult you've come off to me as obv townie really quickly and people in the thread have been agreeing. Calling you town is an easy read to have so I disregarded it.

His reads on bardull / soup are much more valuable given that their head to head was the most important thing that's happened in the game thus far. At this point Bardull was L-2 and Zen had just unvoted Bardull and switched to soup. Ryker decides to go against the popular wagon and place suspicion on soup another wagon that could easily gain support. I think as scum this would be an apt move to make because if Bardull flips town Ryker'll get credit for not pushing the lynch plus joining a late wagon on town D1 would look bad for scum. The soup wagon had some support already (zen / bardull) so it's not like scumRyker would be missing out on much by establishing that he'd be ok with Soup going.

Of course from a town perspective these could just be the reads Ryker truly had (and honestly I had similar reads at that point). But I feel if that was the case he'd have done more to try to get weight off of Bardull's wagon, instead he gives no reasoning which makes it feel like he gave the read only so he can say he had that read in retrospect. Similar thing with his soup read.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

my read on Zen is mostly gut, he just feels like town Zen based on how off the cuff his posts had felt. I also just recently reread a game Zen was in, and in that game he did more holding back which isn't what he seems to be doing here.

Though I did think Gheb had a point last night (this morning) about how Zen shouldn't get credit for taking stances willy nilly. I could see scumZen doing that D1 and then being more reactionary the rest of the game. So my read isn't as strong as it once was. btw @Xiivi i had a question for you

In other news, I also think Zen has a point about Bardull's disappearance which is weird given that he dipped as soon as his wagon started to die down. I still think this slot is town though mostly because my gut reaction to Rykers first post was the same as his and if he hadn't brought that up I 100% would have.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Ryu you feel good about Bardull now? You were previously on his wagon right, what changed? Though i have to reread your vote on him could have been from RVS

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm still feeling Ryker scum. Even disregarding me wanting to tunnel him based on his first post, I know Ryker is actually good at this game and it makes me question his slot when the majority of his posts felt insubstantial / noncommittal.

I gotta find his post where he explains voting Ruy, I guess I skipped it when reading last night

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu you feel good about Bardull now? You were previously on his wagon right, what changed? Though i have to reread your vote on him could have been from RVS

I never was on his wagon.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Oh my B ruy, dunno why I thought that.

Also Ryker, thoughts on my slot?

 

[Vult Redux]

I find him to be townie with what he posted earlier.

?

I gotta find his post where he explains voting Ruy, I guess I skipped it when reading last night

look at post 205

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Thanks (tho fwiw he doesn't explain why he wants to pursue rut)

@Ryker my question was why you're voting ruy over the 3 ppl that were in your lynch pool.

 

[Vult Redux]

\In other news, I also think Zen has a point about Bardull's disappearance which is weird given that he dipped as soon as his wagon started to die down.

i can agree with you at least on this point.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Pressure ruy* though auto correct wasn't far off

 

[Xivii]

Vult go back to visible you dastard.

Unvote

soup your band of posts were refreshing and I am happy now.

Mac I'm getting to (reading) your posts presently.

 

[Maven89]

There weren't any lies. Your last response (below) didn't make any sense. Even if I am on some .01% chance misreading the situation, it would clearly be a result of confusion rather than scum intent.

You said

And he says in the very post I quoted above (#121) haha. What the hell dude?

Here is Gheb's #121

Unvote Vote Red Ryu

Bardull's not a play toDay. Not sure why anybody'd put him at L-1.

Please tell me where in that post he said "haha"? I looked and never saw Gheb say that in my post this entire game.

And please explain how you don't understand my other post because I think it's pretty clear? If you didn't understand it why did you wait until now, after Vult agreed with me, to mention it and not when you were responding to my posts earlier?

 

[Maven89]

I looked and never saw Gheb say that in my post this entire game.

Ebwop: Supposed to say "never saw Gheb say that in any post this entire game"

 

[Xivii]

You said



Here is Gheb's #121



Please tell me where in that post he said "haha"? I looked and never saw Gheb say that in my post this entire game.

And please explain how you don't understand my other post because I think it's pretty clear? If you didn't understand it why did you wait until now, after Vult agreed with me, to mention it and not when you were responding to my posts earlier?

I wasn't waiting for Vult. I dropped it because you clearly aren't making any sense so I thought you had some other agenda for defending Gheb. I didn't think you'd continue to push me on it.

Gheb never said "haha". That was me laughing in a casual and friendly manner. #121 has Gheb saying "not sure why anyone would put him at L-1" which indicates that he was not serious about Bardull being lynched. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

 

[Xivii]

Bard is town because he's done more actively trying to read and push the game than anyone on the game save maybe Vult. Soup leans scum because his stance on Bardull was disgusting and wrong.


I've been here for them all game, any questions?

Can you show how Bard has actively pushed the game? He made 1 analysis post (the one you). The rest of his posts were in defense to the pressure on him. Since then he has not returned.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Look at the beginning of the game. That's when that read was made and what I'm more than willing to defend. You want to talk about Bardull now, then it's somewhat more tenuous.

Reading.

 

[Xivii]

Ah I see you were just responding to Mac about your read from before. I thought that was your present outlook.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also Ryker, thoughts on my slot?

Incredibly annoying to deal with.

It begins with the comment about my first post which I REALLY don't understand the distaste for. I think your case on me is weak and predicated on what I'm not doing rather than what I am doing and doesn't so much try to ascertain my alignment so much as gauge public willingness to lynch me and go from there.

It becomes even more of a pain to deal with your slot when prodding would've been based off of one post until recently and taking any action would be construed as only taking an interest in the game when my slot is threatened.

It seems much more convenient to ignore you and sort it out later when I have more to work with so long as your push never takes.



For the record, if you want my opinion on something specific in the thread, I'll respond.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ah I see you were just responding to Mac about your read from before. I thought that was your present outlook.

My present outlook on Bardull is better than slots like Soup or Mac or Maven. I slot him in around Ruy or Gheb. I mostly just want him to talk to me more.