Flare Blitz or Dragon Rush?

[ZephyrZ]

what's charizard's viability looking like with dragon rush?

I'd say that between Dragon Rush and Rock Hurl, Charizard's viability improves drastically. They cover up some of his largest weaknesses, which in turn improves some of his worst matchups. You can even use Fire Ball cannon to help deal with some projectile spammers.

However, Charizard is still a pretty big commitment, and his options are someone limited. He's not going to be top-tier with customs, at least not compared to the incredibly safe-to-play Shiek. I'd say around mid-tier.

 

[Steeler]

People fall out of my Dragon Rush all the time nowadays...

 

[Strider755]

A helluva lot better than without; I was able to run Charizard well in last weekend's tournament. The only thing I lost to with Zard was Captain Falcon (who i simply cannot handle).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I still prefer Flare Blitz to be honest, but a lot of that is my practice with it a lot more than Dragon Rush, even though Dragon Rush is really really damn good.

 

[Strider755]

Right; I occasionally use Flare Blitz (usually out of necessity) and spare it for killing. Sometimes you have to remember you have flare blitz and not d-rush, though.

 

[Ganonballer]

I think Charizards best move set is just his standard kit, 1111. But Im also not a huge fan of customs in general. I think they are cool but they lack a lot of balance and it makes the game feel jank and off kilter. I feel as tho DR doesn't help Charizard (apply to any character and/or custom move) become a better character with better match ups, it just simple gives him an exploitable means of damage that can be hard to get around and needs to be respected or it doesn't change much of anything. Which doesn't lead to fun gameplay for viewers or even the players sometimes, imo.

But that aside, DR is good but I feel like FB is better. DR is great for just trying to catch people and his good on shield but it can be shielded and punished if the opponent has the right character and is fast enough. Its pretty spammable if spaced right but its downfall is that it doesn't lead into any. The positioning it leaves you with its alright but the end lag it has doesn't allow for anything to follow up with other than waiting for their next move. Its a good stand alone move but his move set doesn't compliment it. With FB, all you really need is a good couple reads with a FB and its a lot of damage and or death for the opponent. As long as its not the only move you are using, the damage you take from FB really isn't a bother. Zard is a heavy weight and trading is always in his favour. Reading rolls, other tech chases, follow ups after Nair and covering landings are just some of the ways you can punish people with FB. Its pretty essential to his move set imo. Sure its risky but thats the whole point of the move lol. You can learn how to use it properly and its a very useful tool for him.

As for Rock Hurl, I haven't really experimented with it very much but Im pretty sure it doesn't have Super Armor like Rock Smash does and like you guys said earlier, SA is a necessity for Zard, being so susceptible to so many combos and juggles even. Zards got Utilt, Usmash, Nair and Rock Smash for anti-air options so he doesn't really need anymore imo.

 

[Strider755]

It does have armor; in fact, it gets Armor at frame 1.

 

[-LzR-]

I guess you aren't aware Bthrow combos into Dragon Rush and I have killed many times at below 20% with it. Good luck trying to kill anyone below 140% with Flare Blitz. That move belongs down there with sign as useless moves.

 

[rrrRandy]

I'm not a fan of Dragon Rush either, but I have to admit Flare Blitz is a pretty garbage move a lot of the time. I've gone over its specific advantages before, so this time I think I'll say a little about Blast Burn: it's hilarious, and not actually that bad of a move. It comes out slower than Flare Blitz, is useless for recovery and makes you take 16% recoil on hit, so why? Because it's somehow safer on shield than Flare Blitz, and it's actually worth hitting. It eats airdodges and covers every ledge option in existence, and is a multi-hit move that does 29% total; that's more than half a shield. It'll KO pretty much any character from anywhere on stage at about 90%, with the move doing a third of that on its own.

While I'm here, Rising Cyclone is actually an insane edgeguard option, and a completely viable move. Follow the opponent off stage after a B-throw at about 80%, their only options are to recover low or to try to hit you out of the move's startup. Characters with poor air speed/no hitbox on up-B are pretty much already dead. I recommend finding a Greninja player to try this move on, I can guarantee you will not be disappointed.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I guess you aren't aware Bthrow combos into Dragon Rush and I have killed many times at below 20% with it. Good luck trying to kill anyone below 140% with Flare Blitz. That move belongs down there with sign as useless moves.

Dragon Rush would have to be just as bad as egg roll in order to be useless. It still has it's niche uses, like trapping landings, covering tech options, and occasionally armoring through projectiles such sheik needles for the K.O. At high %'s, predicting any laggy option from the opponent is a stock.

Dragon rush is definitely the better move in general. It turns whole match ups around for char by taking us out of the neutral game (or weakest phase) and putting us in the edguarding phase (our strongest), pair that up with a good flamethrower gimp and characters like falcon are not going to be liking the Charizard MU at all.

Imo Flare Blitz is a niche choice for specific matchups, and Dragon Rush is the general move we'll want to take the majority of the time.

 

[Strider755]

I've gotten Flare Blitz KOs under 100%, and sometimes at 80. Anyway, I need to try that <throw - d-rush combo sometime; I may have done it without actually knowing it's a combo. I often do advanced techniques without actually knowing what they're called.

 

[-LzR-]

It's a very tight combo. You should try to practice it until you are comfortable with it.

 

[Strider755]

I'll do that right now.

 

[Strider755]

I'll do that right now.

Update: OK, that's a really awesome, underappreciated combo. I just practiced it for a couple of hours, and it can easily take out anything that doesn't have an insane recovery. Lemme link this vid that I found for a demonstration:

D R A G O N R U S H B O Y S - YouTube

 

[-LzR-]

That's exactly what I was talking about. If you can do that who cares about killing 120% with Blitz?

 

[Strider755]

Obviously, I'm gonna keep that combo hidden up my sleeve and not try to spam it. BTW, I also practiced getting back up to the stage after pulling that off.