Flame Choke

[JUGGERNAUT043]

something i noticed from the earlier versions of project m till now( believe it started in 2.1) is ganons opponents gaining the ability to choose to fall behind him from a grounded flame choke, i dont really understand why this was changed, was it too good of a tech chase game? was it considered op? enlighten me to why this was nerfed on ganons part?

 

[Shell]

Without the little bounce you would automatically be in the correct spacing to cover 3/4 tech options where tech away was pretty much always the right choice. This was very powerful and very static. Everyone else has to deliberately space to get this kind of coverage, having it done for you weakened ganon's skill curve and made tech chasing less interesting.

 

[\Apples]

AKA balance issue. I'm glad character's skill curves are being acknowledged during the design process, they should be.

 

[GeZ]

Question for my friend who plays Ganon, what're some good options if your opponent repeatedly lands behind you? It's how I always DI and it seems to stop most of his continuation and combos off of flame choke unless he tech chases with another Flame Choke. Either way, it seems like the best option in most situations. What could he do to punish that?

 

[CORY]

jump back-bair? if heknows you're going to di behind him and tech roll backwards, it's gonna hit and he's ganon, so you know that's gonna hurt.

 

[Airrider]

I must say that i don´t really like the way flame choke works in P:M. I love him as a character in general, but IMO the flamechoke > techchase game is pretty clunky. Sure, it´s effective, but i think that it´s a little to much "either you hit, or you don´t". A bit boring, basically. I friend of mine suggested that it should be like falcons side-B but it would pop the opponent into the ground, just like aerial flame choke, setting up a nice followup. I agree. That would be much more smooth in my opinion. It would be similar to CF´s but it would also go through to the opponents shield.

Or what do you think? Do you love it the way it is?

 

[CORY]

so... you're saying make it work like the flame choke does now? the move you don't care for? i'm a little confused ;x

 

[Airrider]

Nono. I mean that i don't like the way it works when you do it on the ground. I think it's kind of sluggish and uninteresiting. I'd rather have it work like aerial FC when you do it on the ground as well, making room for a direct followup like with raptor boost.

The idea is: FC on the ground slams the opponent into the ground, making him pop up (like aerial FC) EDIT: (The difference basically being that it would send the opponent a bit higher and with more hitstun than aerial FC. Though essentially, they would be very similar). I just think it would be better that way. It would be direct, and it would set up at least one strong followup hit for Ganon, allowing him to choose for example dair, bair or fair (or grab?!) depending on the situation. I would like his playstyle more that way. Similar to CF, but still quite different.

I think there's too much slow side-b/down-b stuff right now. Just my opinion.

 

[Ace55]

Giving him a guaranteed hit after a command grab doesn't sound like a great idea. Unless they alter the endlag to be as long as the aerial version, which would make the move extremely unsafe.

And I totally disagree that setting up a techchase is more 'boring' than getting a guaranteed hit. The first is dynamic, the latter is rather static.

 

[Airrider]

Yeah, maybe.

EDIT: Just realised that it would basically set up combos like flamechoke > wizards foot so that it would be like it is now but with less variation. Probably not a good idea after all. So nevermind.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I wish that Flame Choke allowed for the C.Falc-esque punch if I pressed B again while in the attack.

this would give Ganon more tech chase options and make my opponent have to guess whether to dodge or shield

It could also be good for more variations of combo set-up when Ganon has offensive momentum.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

i was doing some research and realized the logic for the flame choke nerf is flawed, ganon covers 3 of the 4 options with the brawl flame choke, he still has to read right and or guess right to get the follow up. pmbr strongbads DKs downb hand slaps hitbox covers almost 4 of 4 tech options and he only has to face one direction, requires no read, no timing, and no prediction, and if the opponent manages to get out of the hitbox dk just has to move a hair to cover it, so as far as i can tell their is no real reason for it, just like the dair animation changes

 

[leelue]

It's not Ganon's flame choke that's the issue then, it'd be Dk's techbot 1000

Honestly, I just want there to be Tech-getup attacks and I'd be living the dream

 

[Needsmorespin]

http://www.twitch.tv/gmaster171/c/3300019 I think Flame choke is a pretty cool move :D

 

[Xinc]

Flame Choke is cool, especially if they don't tech.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

soooo many follow ups <3 <3 <3

 

[GeZ]

Why wouldn't they tech? It's got good tech chase potential but is limited in followups unless you catch them with an aerial FC.

 

[teluoborg]

If they tech you can potentially chain choke them.
The only reliable way to escape the chain choke is not to tech, but then they expose theirself to a free wizkick.

 

[GeZ]

Actually if you don't tech but DI behind them it's tougher for them to follow up with a wiz kick, but I still find that DI'ing behind them and then teching up instantly can give you an opportunity to punish their attempted chain choke if you've got a good read on them.