flame choke then down tilt

[daftsir]

flame choke then down tilt, this is how i start most of my attack/combo depending on damage of opponent (the down tilt kills around 150). but here is my problem this only works 90% of the time (i miss the down tilt). I'm trying to figure out why the opponent can escape from this some of the time so i can prevent it from happening.

Ive watched it in slow-mo and regular speed, i've tried different damages, ive tried lvl 9 computer and human players, different characters, ect. ect. anyways frustrating any imput?

PS i apologize if this has already been a topic

 

[Phazon Warrior]

This is a good question thats needs further research. I've run into the same problem with both humans and computers, I would sometimes miss the down tilt.

Although I haven't looked into it that much, I do get a sense that the higher percent the opponent is at, the more likely you will be able to land the down tilt after a Flaming Choke. Don't take my word for it though, its more of a hunch without any factual evidence.

 

[daftsir]

yeah that is what i thought at first but i tested it in training with a large scale of damages (0-160 at intervals of 20), and different recovery moves used by the victim (neutral stand up, roll left, roll right, attacking). it did fail sometimes when it was the first damage inflicted you do. but it didn't fail consistently in order for me to conclude that that is the reason.

 

[tehSANDMAN]

>B to dtilt is not guaranteed...it can be avoided via roll or get up attack. The damage percentage does not matter, just what your opponent does and how quickly he does it (>B to dtilt is extremely easy to get out of).

 

[daftsir]

>B to dtilt is not guaranteed...it can be avoided via roll or get up attack. The damage percentage does not matter, just what your opponent does and how quickly he does it (>B to dtilt is extremely easy to get out of).

as i said I have tried many different things (such as rolling and get up attack) with many characters and Ganon still hits with d-tilt the majority of the time

 

[da K.I.D.]

mine doesnt. as far as my experience goes, that is never garanteed, what i do is hit them with it the first three times, than they are conditioned to get out of it and thats how you setup for a pretty little stomp or forward air. but if your opponent is fast enuff they should always be able to get out of it. but some ppl dont know whats coming so it puts you in a perfect position

 

[KoopaKoot]

The trick is to wait for Ganon to lower his hand, then link into a d-tilt

Edit:
After watching it again and again, It seems you have to lint into d-tilt before the opponent lands after bouncing of the ground, otherwise they can escape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyhZJ5kLjuk

 

[tehSANDMAN]

It can be gotten out of if the opponent rolls or getup attacks as soon as possible. Believe me I've tried anything I could for guaranteed hits but only jab on bouncing animation is guaranteed. It is decent ground game move and mix up if they wait but it is far from a free hit.

 

[Pururun]

I was playing around with flame choke and d-tilt in training mode with Ike at 1/4th speed. Usually I would flame choke, then hold the control stick to roll away with Ike while holding down and pressing attack with Ganondorf. It seems to end in failure most of the time as Ike would roll away too fast. Then I tried tilting the control stick down just slightly instead of holding it down after the flame choke and it seems to work a lot better.

I'm not entirely sure but I think if you hold down the stick enough so that he crouches, he ends up crouching just enough frames for your opponent to escape. If you tilt it so he doesn't crouch and goes straight from standing to d-tilt, you'll land it. I don't know, maybe I'm not rolling properly with my opponent but it seems to end up with the same results everytime.
Holding down the control stick and pressing attack = Failed d-tilt
Tilting down the control stick(enough not to enter crouch but still get a d-tilt) and pressing attack = Success

Can someone else test this? >_>

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Just a quick note but I've noticed its actually easier to chain a C stick up smash than a down tilt after the Dark Choke. I've had quite a high success rate on CPU lv9's and you know their tendencies to DI out of everything.

As far as I can tell down tilt is actually slightly slower as Ganondorf has to go into a crouch animation before he can attack. For the up smash he'll just throw that leg up almost instantly so the wind up is negated by the other matter.

 

[Pururun]

The level 9 CPUs are really slow at rolling away after a flame choke. >_> I don't think they even dodge f-tilts.. -_-

Oh, and you can skip the crouch by tilting the control stick down just slightly enough to do the d-tilt.

 

[Stalfoe]

You can land this on a CPU everytime, a Human player is a different story.

 

[J18]

what i've noticed is that if they roll away right away i miss it even though logistically i would hit them with my foot pretty much going through them.

 

[rockmace]

you can very well just use the neutral A, that one is even harder to escape even on humans. don't bother using smashes, they only work with cpus, but the point on this tehnique, is looking cool and pwner, so against a cpu, I do >B, then the forward tilt. Ganondorf Kiks ***, literally.

but against humans, use the neutral A, nos as monstruos powerful, still has somewhat of a punch, and is hardly avoidable, and in online matches, the minimum lag , even less than half of a second, almost makes this an awesome weapon.

 

[Pururun]

Okay, I did more testing with the flame choke follow ups. o.o;
All the testing was done in Final Destination and the lower area of Shadow Moses with 1/4th speed on in training mode. I'm not sure if that will have a negative effect on anything though. These are pretty much guaranteed hits.

A = Jab

DT = Down Tilt. It's safer to do a DT from a standing posiiton(slightly tilted down control stick) rather than crouching, if you hold down on the control stick, there's a chance that you'll enter crouching frames longer than usual if you press A at the wrong moment.

Away = Opponent DIs as soon as they start dropping and attempts to roll away from you.

In = Opponent DIs toward you and attempts to roll behind you.

| A(No DI) | A(Away) |A(In) | DT(No DI) | DT(Away) |DT(In) |
Mario X O X O O O
Luigi O O X O O O
Peach X X X O O O
Bowser O O O O X X
Donkey O O O O X X
Diddy O O O O O O
Yoshi O O O O O O
Wario O O X O O X
Link O O O O X X
Zelda X X X O O O
Sheik X O X O O O
Ganondorf X X X O X X
Toon Link X X X O O O
Samus O O O O X X
Zero Suit Samus X X X O O O
Pit O O O O O O
Ice Climbers N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A(Popo and Nana? Argghh!)
R.O.B O O O O O O
Kirby O O O O O O
Meta Knight O O O O O O
King Dedede O O O O O O
Olimar O O O O O O
Fox X X X O O O
Falco X X X O X X
Wolf O O X O X X
Captain Falcon X X X O O O
Pikachu O X O O O O
Charizard O O O O O O
Squirtle X X X O O X
Ivysaur O O O O O O
Lucario X X X O X X
Jigglypuff O O O O O O
Marth X X X O X O
Ike O O O O O O
Ness X X X O O O
Lucas X X X O O O
Game & Watch O O O O O O
Snake O O O O X X
Sonic X X X O O O

Wario: He can DI into you and if you jab or d-tilt, you'll push him behind you with no damage done to him. ._.

Squirtle: Same as Wario.

Wolf: If he DIs into you and doesn't roll, he can dodge the jab but he can't do the same for the d-tilt.

I totally forgot to do f-tilts. Hopefully someone will play around with it in training mode. (Maybe even skim through to list to see if I made any mistakes. >_>)

 

[Ganny]

You can B left/right him and then follow up immediately with a punch doing a good chunk of damage. If the character di's in the right direction, you can repeat. If he can't be hit with the punch, you have to either down a him (if he attacks right off the ground) or smash downwards (if he rolls backwards). If he rolls away from you, follow with a b down. If you hit him with an a down tilt, you can maybe follow up with the next combo.

You can B up him and smash him to the ground, following with a b down. Even a hairpin messes this combo up, but it lands sometimes. Does good damage too.

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Ya, I was way ahead of you guys. You want to punch no down tilt