Five Things I Would Like To See in SSBB

[SeanTurner_26]

I am aware that I am new here (lol) but I got the cube the Christmas it came out, and have been playing smash off and on for these odd 5 or 6 years, with more serious playing as of recent.

1. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the X button as normal jump and the Y button as a short hop. (Or vise versa), I think that this would make it easier for novice players to get up to speed, so to speak.

2. No more clones, this in my opinion, shows laziness on the developers part. with characters such as Dr. Mario, in comparison to Mario, I see no issues, however Pikachu and Pichu was just a waste of time and effort. Think luige, (SP?) anyways, he had everyone of Mario and Dr's moves, but he had the green missile instead of super sheet. Green Missile only cause the computer controlled characters to SD.

3. Lower item spawn rates. I messed around with the items a month or two ago, put on some hearts and tomatoes, to make fights last longer, but they lasted a little bit longer then I wanted them to. On the very low setting, I saw capsules and boxes in like 30 seconds.

4. Make computers less repetitive on the most difficult level. I can't always play SSBM and soon to be SSBB with friends all of the time. It isn't possible. It is pretty much the same thing against a level nine computer. I got pissed a year or two ago because I was having trouble taking down two level nines teamed up against me, and the Fox kept FSmashing me, and I admit it; it got me quite annoyed.

And finally number five.

5. The moving wall courses while interesting at first, became pretty much forgotten, I know by me at least. I know everyone does FD, myself included, but is kind of nice to see a change in scenery every now and then.

Well here are my five thoughts on how to improve the game. I know items don't really apply to most of you, but if items were set on an even lower spawn rate, it could potentially bring some value to the system.

So give me your thoughts : -)

--- Sean

 

[McFox]

Your reasoning behind #2 shows that you don't know why clones were in there in the first place.

During Melee's development, there were other characters that were planned to be in the game. As the development took longer and deadlines approached, Sakurai (the director) found that they wouldn't have time to include all of the characters that they had wanted.

But, he also figured that by copying a couple of character templates and making smaller adjustments, it would take MUCH less time (and money) to do so, and would fill out the roster a bit. So during the last few months of development, these clones were added.

Some of the clones are pretty worthless, of course. Pichu is too similar to Pikachu to be any good. However, I'd say the differences between Falco & Fox and Ganondorf & Falcon are pretty substantial. The way you play as these characters is almost entirely different from their clone.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if they start to get near the end of development time, I woudn't mind them adding a couple of clones to Brawl.

It's better than nothing.

 

[Jump20X6]

I think I'd like to see them take all the time they need to fully develop the game. Even if we have to wait a few more monthes, I'd rather have, say 36 unique characters than 28 unique characters and 8 clones.

I think have two jump buttons would actually make the controls more complicated. It's easier to remember press soft=short hop than two separate buttons.

Item spawns can be adjusted quite well already. They don't really need to adjust the default rate that much.

Hopefully the A.I. will be smarter. I'd be really nice if you could get ghosts of other people's playing style and download them over WiiConnect 24.

Not sure what you mean by #5. But I'm sure we'll have plenty of standard platform levels and more interesting ones like Pokefloats.

 

[SeanTurner_26]

Well I sort of contridicted myself in number five. THe thread name is five things I would like to see, and item number five is talking about what I do not want to see.

--- Sean

 

[SeanTurner_26]

Well I sort of contridicted myself in number five. THe thread name is five things I would like to see, and item number five is talking about what I do not want to see.

MCfox - That backstory was interesting, thanks. And what you say about fox and falco is also interesting.

--- Sean

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

1.Far to many Arguments/Complications.Why have 2 diffirent buttons for 2 functions when you can have 1 for 2 functions?Slightly illogical.If you want to get better,just practice,don't make it so that the ones who worked hard have to play on par with someone who just started the game.

2.Personally,I like clones,they are similar in play,yet their priorities change dramatically.I don't see anything wrong with it.

3.They have that function,or you can just turn them off.

4.A.I. is difficult to program.Not to mention it is a waist of time when the game is primarily played as a multiplayer game with human opponents.So why waste time and money for a function that isn't well suited?

5.I can preety much agree with this,the FD effects are preety bizarre. :D

 

[Shotogon]

1: I understand where your coming from with the short-hop button. I've been praticing it for 2 years (TWO YEARS!) and still I can't short-hop. Its easy with some characters, but when it comes to Marth, Fox, and Shiek.... I just can't press the button and release it fast enough. BTW you dont press it soft. You just tap it. I can't get it down (prolly cause ive got big hands and thumbs). So yes I kinda agree with you they need a short hop button. Its for the people that really can't do it. Kinda for handicap people.

2: Clones are good. McFox has a point, we got that down.

3: I have only used items in fun matches and I dont play too many of those. I never use items unless the character has them. I dont care if they take them out.

4: I understand if you have no one to play against, yes the AI could be a bit more tatical, yet its a simple game (to noobs) and AI is simple. AI is simple to kill. Getting AI to act like a human (which sounds really awesome, and would be) is pretty hard. Very few games or maybe none of them have pulled it off. Give it time.

5: I think I understand what your saying. How the background changes in FD or something to that. I dunno. But one thing I REALLY hate is the tree in dream land... STUPID TREE...

I'd like to add something that I would like to see. Mid-air throws, ya know, Z in mid-air dosen't act like the A button but a throw. It would be cool I think, yet it would take more time to devlop the game and throws for the characters. Imagine... chain grabbing in the air... wow....

 

[Pye]

1. Please, no. As much as certain people have trouble learning to SH, I physically cannot use the Y button. Believe me, I currently use X to jump in Melee, and I've tried swapping to Y before. I just can't do it. If Brawl did something like that, the only jump I would use would be the one assigned to X (ether that, or have a full second delay as I activly think "press Y" in order to do it).

If you have trouble SHing, then you're doing something wrong. There are more ways then pressing the button fast (like flicking, for example).

2. Clones are awesome. I don't mind that 2 character's attacks look the same, visually, as long as their playstyle is different. Melee did an almost flawless job of this (with the exception of Pichu), and if Brawl's clones are like that, I'm 100% in favor of it.

3. I have no comment here, as I almost never, ever play with items, so I don't really know the spawn rates for them. When I do play with items, it's usualy FFAs, and we put the spawn on "Low". I've never found them too abundant at that level.

4. Yeah, I have to say, the "jab, straight, jab, straight, jab, straight..." ad infinitum AI is kind of annoying. I mean, with Brawl online anyway, I won't be playing against the AI very much, so I don't really care if it isn't improved. What I would like to see with AI are more training mode settings (as well as the ability to use the C-stick in training mode). Maybe a permanently shielding mode, or a permanently invincible mode?

5. Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean for this one.

Also, I think aerial grabs would be overpowered unless they are significantly slowed down when you do them in the air (like Bowser's overB).

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

1: I understand where your coming from with the short-hop button. I've been praticing it for 2 years (TWO YEARS!)and still I can't short-hop.

O_O

If you jump with X,you can easily just flick down on the bottom of the X button.

2 years though? That can't be,on one of the most simple techniques.

 

[Shotogon]

.... Ive got big thumbs, really strong thumbs, I'm not your average gamer, I actually work out so I'm not skinny or fat, just strong... and what do you mean by flick? Like press and let your thumb slide off? I've never heard of it. And yes two years. If I can get down the SH then I can really shuffle. Really really shuffle.

-edit: HOLY CRAP! Thanks! I just tried what you meant to tell me and jebus it worked! I know how to flick. Anyways... I feel really stupid. It helps me though... Thanks

 

[SeanTurner_26]

In response to all of you:

1. - Its not that I have trouble short hopping, its more along the lines of it might be nice to have a short hop button. Even if you could rebind your buttons. I thought this might be a cool feature.

2. - It isn't that I dislike clones, but they seem to give the game less variety. I guess this is a wish, either way it doesn’t really matter to me.

3. - I did not know that Brawl would be online, is this official?

4. - I guess it might make it more fun for an item to be like a "rare occurrence" one every two minutes or something. Trying to get the item might add some more amusement to the game, not like there isn't any amusement in the game at the moment.

5. - Where I was going with this one was instead of creating moving wall maps, create more regular maps like any of the maps except for the moving wall ones.

I truly hope this helps clarify some of the questions.

--- Sean

 

[SirKibbleX]

My question is how could you balance spawn of the super icon things in SSBB? Will they be disabled? Will certain characters' strengths (speed, jump height) be balanced with spawn position somehow? How about supermove strength? How big of a feature are these supermoves?

These are the questions we should really be asking about items.

The system reminds me a bit of Power Stone series from Dreamcast. The balance in that game was pretty attrocious. Basically the winner of a given match depended on A: What character and B: What stage. If it was a big stage, fast characters would always win, and if it was small, the strong characters had big advantages. I'm pretty trustful of Nintendo, they brought us not one amazing smash game, but two, and for 95% of the gamers out there, the sequel was better (I'm in the 5% lol).

Anybody got any answers to my questions?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

.... Ive got big thumbs, really strong thumbs, I'm not your average gamer, I actually work out so I'm not skinny or fat, just strong... and what do you mean by flick? Like press and let your thumb slide off? I've never heard of it. And yes two years. If I can get down the SH then I can really shuffle. Really really shuffle.

-edit: HOLY CRAP! Thanks! I just tried what you meant to tell me and jebus it worked! I know how to flick. Anyways... I feel really stupid. It helps me though... Thanks

That's great.Good luck on getting better. =D

 

[FreakoFreako]

2 Things I want to see in Brawl.

1) Online

2) Being as great/better than previous SSB's


I dunno, I just want that online freaking badly >_>

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

1. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing the X button as normal jump and the Y button as a short hop. (Or vise versa), I think that this would make it easier for novice players to get up to speed, so to speak.

No way. Really dumb idea, games have skill for a reason, k thx.

2. No more clones, this in my opinion, shows laziness on the developers part. with characters such as Dr. Mario, in comparison to Mario, I see no issues, however Pikachu and Pichu was just a waste of time and effort. Think luige, (SP?) anyways, he had everyone of Mario and Dr's moves, but he had the green missile instead of super sheet. Green Missile only cause the computer controlled characters to SD.

Ok, first of all thats a pretty arrogant statement for one smasher, champ Why don't you talk to Wak about removing young link, I wonder what he would think.

3. Lower item spawn rates. I messed around with the items a month or two ago, put on some hearts and tomatoes, to make fights last longer, but they lasted a little bit longer then I wanted them to. On the very low setting, I saw capsules and boxes in like 30 seconds.

Items are lame, they should remain optional with the best option being off. For who I play with anyway.

4. Make computers less repetitive on the most difficult level. I can't always play SSBM and soon to be SSBB with friends all of the time. It isn't possible. It is pretty much the same thing against a level nine computer. I got pissed a year or two ago because I was having trouble taking down two level nines teamed up against me, and the Fox kept FSmashing me, and I admit it; it got me quite annoyed.

better comps would be nice, that's something we'd all like but um... It wont happen Im afraid...

 

[SeanTurner_26]

Okay Dylan, you got me pretty good on the bit about clones and ignorance, I actually learned the advanced techniques from Wak's videos.

If Brawl is online, as I mentioned earlier, I would spend the majority of my time against human opponents, instead of AI.

I had no idea that the short hop button would be such a bad idea to so many of you. I apologize.

I don't use items when I play with friends. I do like the idea of having a recovery item appear every minute or so, it can be really game changing, and add to the amusement of the match,

An example ----

A mad dash by both players with their damage at 150% (I play with a low damage ratio for longevity) for the heart container. Marth nailed Samus, but wait! Samus grabbed Marth with his grappling beam and threw him in the opposite direction. Samus got the heart.

Visualize something like this in your head. You really don't think something like this might be fun every 10 odd matches or so? Bah never mind, that is lame as can be I am not going to delete it because I put the slightest bit of thought into that little passage above.

Goodnight
--- Sean

 

[FreakoFreako]

Well it's an idea. Not everyone agrees with ideas. I think current system's fine, so I like the motto, "If it's not broken, don't fix it!" >.>

Anyway, it seems like you like longer games, and that's fine. Some people play with items to add the more randomness. Some people play without items for competitive play. It's all fine in my opinion.

 

[PDOT]

We need a button to press while game is paused so you can reply the last couple seconds or something. I would love to see replays of some cool KO's. And it would be even cooler if we could save them.

 

[Shotogon]

Yea, a replay feature for those really awesome spikes, and maybe a match recorder on the Wii would be nice. Just press a button and it records the match and hooks up to the computer so it can be posted on.... youtube. It would be nice. I hope they might replace some of the characters moves that they've already got. Like Shiek's >B.... I hate that move.

 

[rsc_390]

I think everyone else has done a great job of discussing/arguing your points, however I want to add why I would personally hate 1.

Everyone has their own position when holding a controller. Personally, my thumb is always over Y and A, leaning towards the left side of both buttons, so i can slide to B quickly.

I simply CANNOT use X. It is rediculously hard for me. currently I can short hop and full hop fine with Y, and i'm happy like that. If I had to use both X and Y I would cry, because i'd have to change my whole finger position, and i'd be uncomfortable

Also like someone else earlier said, it's more logical to have two functions on one button. This way, you can add MORE functions with extra buttons, or do as Melee did and let people choose (both work fine ^_^)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Okay Dylan, you got me pretty good on the bit about clones and ignorance, I actually learned the advanced techniques from Wak's videos.

If Brawl is online, as I mentioned earlier, I would spend the majority of my time against human opponents, instead of AI.

I had no idea that the short hop button would be such a bad idea to so many of you. I apologize.

I don't use items when I play with friends. I do like the idea of having a recovery item appear every minute or so, it can be really game changing, and add to the amusement of the match,

An example ----

A mad dash by both players with their damage at 150% (I play with a low damage ratio for longevity) for the heart container. Marth nailed Samus, but wait! Samus grabbed Marth with his grappling beam and threw him in the opposite direction. Samus got the heart.

Visualize something like this in your head. You really don't think something like this might be fun every 10 odd matches or so? Bah never mind, that is lame as can be I am not going to delete it because I put the slightest bit of thought into that little passage above.

Goodnight
--- Sean

Don't got any problems with how you play man, as long as you enjoy the game, I remember the mad rush for the heart from my old days aswell. Anyhow I prefer to just focus to straight 1v1 anything goes combat on a mix of all the allowed stages, except I hate battlefield (I ban it in tourneys, you're allowed to ban 1 stage) and I dont play poke floats, its allowed but meh I dont like it its too gay of a level.

I dont really like the shorthop/large hop button because to me itd be like taking dynamic out of an instrument, its like controlling volume. Isn't the WII supposed to be all about motion and control? Well they already achieved it in SSBM because of how delicate the shorthop is and how different the longjump is and how you must be able to pull of either one depending on whatever suits the moment. This should not be too hard to master, there are many techniques to shorthop, I personally just do this:

Put your thumb on the corner of x, and slide it off. Simple as that, just nick the corner of it. And then your thumb can easily acess A or B and the c-stick. Its very easy to do wavedashes with too, but find your own rhythm.

Remember also to practice the most essential combination, Short hop, Fast fall, L cancel with a given air attack. shffling is NOT hard to do, it is simply rhythm, its not fast at all, the average gamer can pull it off, so just spend at most 1-2 hours learning these techniques if you want to really see an improvment in your speed

Oh and if you're not a nub and Im down talking you I'm sorry but I guess im trying to be helpful incase no one ever explained it well before...

Just a tip though if you ever want to get into the tournament scene (and its really fun) then you should just avoid the items, if your intent is just to smash with your buddies and chill without obessing over the best way to win, thats fine too.

Anyhow you seem to enjoy the game so we'll see how we all adapt to the sequel. peace.

*Doesn't mean I won't be pissed if wavedashing is out, It would destroy my mario game

Mario is the pwnage!!! (I main him now )

 

[Superstar]

Yay, another Mario main. I know how important the wavedash is to his game, but if its gone, I'll hope that the rest of his game is improved to substitute.

Well, I'm happy with jumps the way they are. Also, I use X to jump, is more comfortable. I can also shorthop, but I never knew about the sliding trick, I learned how to do it by tightening my thumb muscles when I press the button.

Clones, I do not really care, its lazy, but some clones make sense. Falco has the same job as Fox, he should be a partial clone. Luigi is Mario's brother. Of course, Ganon's moveset makes little sense.

I assume when you mean items, you want a very VERY low setting. Well, I think its fine the way it is.

Also, with AI, it wouldn't be that hard to improve them slightly. Ever hear of the random functions. If two moves work for a situation, it could randomize between them. Also, maybe they can have some built in combos, or take opponent character physics into the formula. For example, a CPU Fox could try upsmash against a Jiggly instead of Foward smash.