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First opinions of character placements based on demos/trailers

Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4

Smash Journeyman
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This thread is basically designed to be a tier list maker for our first impressions of the game.
Rules:
Take everything at face value. I KNOW their going to nerf Ridley’s spear damage, but too many assumptions and things get messy.
Even if there isn’t much footage of the character (Diddy, Bowser, RosaLuma), you can position the fighters based on mechanics of the game and how they interact with the character.
If you place a character a certain way because of a tweet/announcement from a top player, try to post the link or quote directly what they said.
 

The Sparrow

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My tierlist based on what we saw so far (No nerfs assumption included, tierlist based on vanilla Smash Ultimate Reveal)

SS: Bayonetta
S: Pikachu, Cloud, Pokemon Trainer, Ridley
A: Mario, ZSS, Snake, Sonic, Ike, Rosalina
B: Marth, Fox, Roy, Zelda, Mewtwo

D: Samus


I only mentioned characters I know
 

DJ3DS

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Why did you put Falco and Ice Climbers in low tier exactly?

I can understand Pichu but not those two.
ICs grab game is neutered and they can't punish other people grabbing them. Right now it looks like playing them is waiting till you get grabbed once at which point Popo gets back thrown and a good opponent kills Nana, leaving you playing half a character.

Short of them being patched I don't see a universe where they aren't bad characters with this mechanic change.
 

Diddy Kong

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Very Good / Potential Top Tiers: :ultbayonetta::ultmewtwo::ultmarth::ultsheik::ultpikachu:
High Tier: :ultdk::ultmario::ultfox::ultness::ultcorrin::ultike::ultpokemontrainer::ultridley::ultcloud::ultsnake::ultvillager::ultryu::ultinkling::ulticeclimbers::ultsonic:
Mid Tier: :ultlink::ultganondorf::ultzelda::ultpit::ultmegaman:
Low Tier: :ultpacman::ultlittlemac::ultbowser::ultkirby::ultsamus:

My thoughts as of yet. Won't include characters we haven't seen in action yet.
 
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Tri Knight

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Very Good / Potential Top Tiers: :ultbayonetta::ultmewtwo::ultmarth::ultsheik::ultpikachu:
High Tier: :ultdk::ultmario::ultfox::ultness::ultcorrin::ultike::ultpokemontrainer::ultridley::ultcloud::ultsnake::ultvillager::ultryu::ultinkling::ulticeclimbers::ultsonic:
Mid Tier: :ultlink::ultganondorf::ultzelda::ultpit::ultmegaman:
Low Tier: :ultpacman::ultlittlemac::ultbowser::ultkirby::ultsamus:

My thoughts as of yet. Won't include characters we haven't seen in action yet.
This one looks good. I like how vast High tier looks specifically. A couple of the characters in there had weaknesses in Smash 4 that really held them back, like Ike. I like that, that may no longer be the case.

And I love how the cursed Zelda tier is mid tier lol
 

The Sparrow

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Unlike Rosalina and Luma Ice Climbers can't exactly "Get Nana back" once shes gone, and since Smash Ultimate will likely be a two stock tournament rule that just means Ice Climbers will be about 80% of the match playing at disadvantage state
 

Diddy Kong

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This one looks good. I like how vast High tier looks specifically. A couple of the characters in there had weaknesses in Smash 4 that really held them back, like Ike. I like that, that may no longer be the case.

And I love how the cursed Zelda tier is mid tier lol
Zelda seems quite solid compared to her earlier incarnations. Yet, that has been said ever since Brawl lol.

There seem to be a lot of High Tier characters indeed, and the likes of Pokemon Trainer, Snake, Cloud, Sonic and Fox have easy Top Tier potential. As all but Pokemon Trainer where Top Tier before, but seem a little nerfed since last time. And Pokemon Trainer has improved tons, but am playing safe here.

Ridley seems solid, but a huge target and a little slow plus he's not even too heavy.
Inklings seem to have a lot going for them, but have apperant weaknesses to if their ink runs out.
DK seems great! Bigger, faster, and stronger too! The new ground game works for him very well, finally giving him some approach options, which he desperately needed.
Ness, Corrin, Villager and Mario seem much the same, which bodes great for them.
I haven't seen much of Ryu and Sonic but I can't think of them being lower than High Tier when they where Top Tier last time.
Ice Climbers will probably be like they where in Melee, but without the wobble. So lower part of High Tier is what I estimate.

Ike might seem to have received just about the most buffs! He actually seems to resemble the Radiant Hero of Blue Flames now. Lots of buffs, he might even be one of the best in this tier. That N Air and F Air are mighty sexy now and he improves a LOT from the new engine it seems! Gonna love making him one of my most steady secondaries yet again <3

Mid tier now.

Link seems unchanged. Still weak recovery, loss of bombs which where very useful, no more tether and ranged grabs (R.I.P. Longshot and Clawshot) but he seems to have a little more range, power and speed. Which he always got buffed, but never helped him all that much.
Ganondorf seems better, and more fun, but he'll keep some glaring weaknesses so I don't expect more than what he was capable of in Melee.
Zelda seems better overall. But I won't expect TOO much, as she's still Zelda.
Pit? Hardly any content of him. He was about as good as he was in Smash 4 as in Brawl however, so it's purely that. He seems most like the "all around guy" that Mario is supposed to be.
Mega Man? I just don't think the new, more offensively build engine, is gonna do him anything good. He'll likely feel far slower than before because of it. Might turn out to be Low Tier in the end even.

Low Tier

Bowser is never gonna be extremely viable unless he'll have some crazy exploits. Combo Food: The Character, that's his motto.
Pac Man is Pac Man and probably will suffer similary to Mega Man or even worse.
Little Mac? With recoveries seemily nerfed he might actually be one of the worst yet. Will benefit from the ground game, and will pull surprises, sure. But a Little Mac main won't win major tournaments. He might take games by surprise, but whenever the other player would read the Mac player, he's pretty much doomed. Seems far more polarised than before.
Everyone said Kirby feels much the same as in Smash 4, where he also wasn't that extraordinary...
Samus is just a lost cause since Brawl and I doubt Smash Ultimate will fix it.
 

**Gilgamesh**

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Top Tier
:ultsheik::ultsnake::ultmarth::ultpikachu::ultzss::ultmewtwo::ultmario::ultbayonetta::ultike::ultdiddy::ultpokemontrainer:
High Tier/ Potential Top Tier
:ultrosalina::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultyounglink::ultryu::ultcloud::ultfalcon::ultinkling::ultsonic::ulticeclimbers::ultwolf::ultroy::ultpichu:

Bad
:ultfox::ultmegaman::ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultbowserjr::ultdoc::ultsamus::ultduckhunt:

Depends on how combo food they are
:ultbowser::ultdk::ultridley::ultganondorf::ultrob:
 
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Diddy Kong

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Top Tier
:ultsheik::ultsnake::ultmarth::ultpikachu::ultzss::ultmewtwo::ultmario::ultbayonetta::ultike::ultdiddy::ultpokemontrainer:
High Tier/ Potential Top Tier
:ultrosalina::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultyounglink::ultryu::ultcloud::ultfalcon::ultinkling::ultsonic::ulticeclimbers::ultwolf::ultroy::ultpichu:

Bad
:ultfox::ultmegaman::ultkirby::ultkingdedede::ultbowserjr::ultdoc::ultsamus::ultduckhunt:

Depends on how combo food they are
:ultbowser::ultdk::ultridley::ultganondorf::ultrob:
DK was combo food in Smash 4, but still high tier.

I agree Diddy and Zero Suit Samus will probably remain Top Tier status, but we haven't seem them in action yet unfortunately... So it'll be a guessing time till then. That's why I only ranked the demo characters.

Why's Fox bad tho? Can't imagine him being worse than at least his Brawl self (who was mostly unused because of the brain dead Pikachu D Throw chaingrab honestly).
 

DYED

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:ultridley::ultinkling: are definitely high tier, between B and S.
About the veterans, I wouldn't place them in a tier list until I get to play them and see all of them competitively, so I'll just place them compared to their previous versions, both from what I saw from the Smashbros.com spotlights and heard from players that used them at E3.

Fighters that seemed stronger and improved than their previous iterations:
:ultbayonetta::ultganondorf::ultike::ultlittlemac::ultwario::ultness::ultlucas::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultroy::ultsheik::ultroy::ultlink::ultmario::ultwolf::ultzelda::ultpokemontrainer:

Fighters that seemed way weaker and nerfed compared to their previous iterations:
:ultfox::ultfalco::ultkirby::ultmegaman::ultsamus::ulticeclimbers::ultpacman::ultolimar::ultduckhunt::ultrobin:ultcloud: (<- still top tier)
 

Fynnez

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SS (God) - Bayonetta (1 character)
S (Top) - Pikachu, Marth/Lucina, Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur, Squirtle, Charizard), Snake, Sheik, Diddy Kong, Sonic, Mario (11 characters)
A (High) - Mewtwo, Villager, Roy, Pit/Dark Pit, Ike, Little Mac, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley, Zelda, Luigi, Rosalina, Meta Knight, (13 characters)
B (Upper) - Ness, Lucario, Ryu, Lucas, Captain Falcon, Wolf, Corrin, Inkling, Link, (9 characters)
C (Mid) - Peach/Daisy, Megaman, Toon Link, Cloud, Donkey Kong, Young Link, Palutena, Mii Brawler, Doctor Mario, (10 characters)
D (Lower) - Samus, Shulk, Wii fit trainer, Duck Hunt, Ganondorf, Bowser (6 characters)
E (Low) - Robin, ROB, Yoshi, Fox, Kirby, Mr Game and Watch, Greninja, Mii Gunner, Wario, Pacman (10 characters)
F (Bottom) - Bowser Junior, Jigglypuff, Olimar, Ice climbers, Falco, King Dedede, Mii Swordfighter (7 characters)
G (****) - Pichu (1 character)
My reasoning for Pichu is I have no knowledge and everybody puts him low /shrug
 

OhMyBanana54

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I think it’s too early to accurately do this, but I’m going to talk about 10 characters in depth for a bit.

:ultbayonetta:
Bayonetta may not have the devastatingly safe shield pressure she had in smash 4 or quite as many guaranteed combos, but Bayonetta is still good, probably top tier even in site of the nerfs to her specials. I can see her struggling more against defensive characters or sword characters but I still think that until her moves get the amount of endlag they should have had to begin with, we still are in a very Bayo centric meta. Which leads me to...

:ultsnake:
Snake is seemingly one of the only brawl top tiers to have made it out largely unscathed: Some damage rebalancing, some range adjustments and a new downsmash that all in all still feel pretty solid. Snake’s defensive but punishing play style is likely to keep him in the top tier alongside Bayo and I can even see him winning the Bayo matchup.

:ultpokemontrainer:
People have been talking endlessly about the buffed Pokemon Trainer so I figured I’d weigh in here. With Pokemon Switch becoming usable in the air and faste and the disappearance of stamina, Pokemon Trainer is a good character now. Top tier though? I don’t know. I think their recovery is more predictable than it seems and I still think on their own each of the Pokémon have flaws. I see them starting strong then losing momentum as time goes on.

:ultcorrin:
Not nearly enough people are talking about how Sakurai buffed one of the best moves in Smash 4: Corrin’s pin now allows you to instantly drop down! This is huge for corrin’s neutral game as it makes instant pin practically unpunishable on whiff. That buff alone could mean the difference between high and top tier alone.

:ultcloud:
See my Bayonetta explanation essentially. Cloud was nerfed yeah but Zero himself showed some amazing Cloud play and with strengths like Cloud’s, it’s hard to see him as anything lower than high tier for now.

:ultike:
Ike gets my biggest jump up from Smash 4 award.He’s fast, he has long range, he has less landing lag, and since few characters have multiple good combos or a good recovery, Ike may have his time to shine in this new meta.

:ulticeclimbers:
Alright so these characters are completely different than any Ice Climbers that predated them. They no longer can rely on their grabs yet they still have the same weeknesses as the old icies.Will they be viable? Maybe. They can’t be as good as the Icies of old but they might not be bad.

:ultinkling:
The Inkling is the most promising newcomer we’ve seen so far. Good mobility, range, frame data, recovery and probably even a few good combos. The roller and splat bombs in particular have me interested in her but it’s hard to say if Inkling will be as good as we’re hyping her up to be.

:ultfox:
So most professional players have been saying Fox is bad. I disagree. Fox’s frame data and movement speed alone make him better than a third of the cast. The lack of combos may seem scary but people said the same thing about Smash 4 Fox so I think we just need to spend some time researching him.

:ultpikachu:
Pikachu’s transition in this game is most comparable to Corrin’s. They took what made Pikachu good and buffed it. This game’s offensive, edge guard heavy meta seems like a Pikachu main’s dream. I’m a little concerned that Pikachu’s new Nair hurts his combo escape options but all in all I see Pikachu dominating this time around.

I didn’t feel like talking about characters who haven’t changed drastically like:ultmario::ultness::ultmewtwo::ultzss::ultvillager::ultrosalina::ultsheik::ultmarth::ultluigi::ultdiddy::ultryu::ultpit::ultdk::ultbowser::ultduckhunt::ultrob: :ultsonic::ultfalcon: and I also didn’t talk about characters who needed footstools to be viable like :ultmegaman: or :ultgreninja:.
 

Fynnez

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Looking back, I realised how bad my original list was, I think if you're gonna rank them based on buffs and nerfs, see how the new mechanics of the game changed the character, characters like Roy and Peach were buffed because of it, and characters like Pacman and Kirby were nerfed because of this

As well as that, my placement for Pit was highly based on this video https://youtu.be/lDpMRhNeRG0
 

DJ3DS

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Looking back, I realised how bad my original list was, I think if you're gonna rank them based on buffs and nerfs, see how the new mechanics of the game changed the character, characters like Roy and Peach were buffed because of it, and characters like Pacman and Kirby were nerfed because of this

As well as that, my placement for Pit was highly based on this video https://youtu.be/lDpMRhNeRG0
It would also help if you gave some reasoning, preferably based on their character videos (and demo footage if available) behind your choices. For example, I personally think that you may have overrated Samus (who I've heard bad things about from people who play her, including ESAM) and Mega Man (who seems to have lost much of his footstool stuff) and underrated Fox (He's had a few nerfs but that hardly warrants putting him below Bowser, who lost his throw combos) and ROB (who now has a burying throw with the potential to lead to much higher percentages off of throws at low percents than before, and a strong consistent kill combo in Down Throw Up Smash).
 

Bambinothegreat

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These are my tier list predictions, tried to be as unbiased as possible. (not in any order)

TOP TIER
:ultbayonetta::ultzss::ultpikachu::ultsheik::ultmarth::ultwolf: :ultlucina:(Lucina by default)

HIGH TIER
:ultganondorf::ultlittlemac::ultryu::ultdiddy::ultsnake::ultike::ultpokemontrainer::ultrosalina:

UPPER-MID TIER
:ultcloud::ultinkling::ultroy::ultgreninja::ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultridley::ultshulk::ultcorrin::ultmewtwo::ultness::ultlucas::ultlucario: (Ridley is a toss up between high tier and upper mid, i kinda just lobbed lucario in)

LOWER-MID TIER
:ultzelda::ultsonic::ultmario::ultluigi::ultmegaman::ultfox::ultfalco::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultgnw::ultmetaknight::ultdoc::ultrobin:ultwiifittrainer::ultyoshi:

LOW TIER
:ultdk::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultrob::ultolimar::ultjigglypuff::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultpalutena::ultpeach::ultdaisy:(<--- Tool) :ultvillager:

TRASH
:ultmiifighters::ultsamus::ulticeclimbers::ultpacman: (This is probably going to be really wrong, I tried.)
 

aarchak

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Predictions (in no particular order):
S: :ultbayonetta::ultpikachu::ultsheik::ultsnake::ultzss:
A::ultmarth:(:ultlucina:):ultrosalina::ultsonic::ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultdiddy::ultinkling:
B::ultpeach:(:ultdaisy:):ultpokemontrainer::ultmewtwo::ultmario::ultpichu::ultfalcon::ultryu::ultfox::ultlittlemac:
C::ultike::ultlucario::ultluigi::ultness::ultlucas::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultdk::ultmetaknight::ultganondorf::ultwolf::ultjigglypuff:
D::ultbowser::ultdoc::ultroy::ultshulk::ultwario::ultyoshi::ultlink::ultridley::ultfalco::ultpit:(:ultdarkpit:):ultmiifighters:
E::ultwiifittrainer::ultpalutena::ultbowserjr::ultzelda::ultdoc::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultolimar::ultrob::ultvillager::ultgnw:
F::ultpacman::ulticeclimbers::ultsamus:
I think many characters now have become better, but I don't believe that Ganon and Ike are top tier now.
 

Bambinothegreat

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These are my tier list predictions, tried to be as unbiased as possible. (not in any order)

TOP TIER
:ultbayonetta::ultzss::ultpikachu::ultsheik::ultmarth::ultwolf::ultlucina:(Lucina by default)

HIGH TIER
:ultganondorf::ultlittlemac::ultryu::ultdiddy::ultsnake::ultike::ultpokemontrainer::ultrosalina:

UPPER-MID TIER
:ultcloud::ultinkling::ultroy::ultgreninja::ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultridley::ultshulk::ultcorrin::ultmewtwo::ultness::ultlucas::ultlucario: (Ridley is a toss up between high tier and upper mid, i kinda just lobbed lucario in)

LOWER-MID TIER
:ultzelda::ultsonic::ultmario::ultluigi::ultmegaman::ultfox::ultfalco::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultgnw::ultmetaknight::ultdoc::ultrobin:ultwiifittrainer::ultyoshi:

LOW TIER
:ultdk::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultrob::ultolimar::ultjigglypuff::ultkingdedede::ultkirby::ultpalutena::ultpeach::ultdaisy:(<--- Tool) :ultvillager:

TRASH
:ultmiifighters::ultsamus::ulticeclimbers::ultpacman: (This is probably going to be really wrong, I tried.)



It was today when i realized i put lucina in top tier, she is most likely somewhere in mid tier.
 

SwagGuy99

Smash Ace
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Dec 28, 2016
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Demo Tier List (Not Ordered)

Top 2 Best Characters:ultbayonetta::ultpokemontrainer:

Top Tier :ultmarth::ultmewtwo::ultpikachu::ultsheik::ultsonic::ultdk:(Squirtle)

Mario and Friends :ultmario::ultsnake:
(I made this tier because I was indecisive on their placement of High or Top Tier)

High Tier :ultlittlemac::ultinkling::ultryu::ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultike::ultness:

Mid Tier:ultlink::ultkirby::ultpit::ultridley::ultzelda::ultganondorf::ultvillager::ultpacman::ultbowser: (Charizard)

Low Tier :ultfox::ulticeclimbers::ultmegaman:

Bottom Tier :ultsamus:(Ivysaur)

Guess on Tier List upon games release (Characters not ordered):

SS :ultpokemontrainer: (This character will most likely be broken if all 3 Pokemon are utilized)

S :ultbayonetta::ultdiddy::ultluigi::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultmewtwo::ultpikachu::ultsnake::ultsonic::ultyounglink::ultzss: (Squirtle)

A :ultcorrin::ultfalcon::ultdk::ultgreninja::ultike::ultmario::ultgnw::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultrosalina::ultroy::ultchrom::ultryu::ultsheik::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultwolf:

B :ultcloud::ultdoc::ultduckhunt::ultike::ultinkling::ultlittlemac::ultlucario::ultgnw::ultness::ultpichu::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultridley::ulttoonlink:

C :ultfox::ultganondorf::ultjigglypuff::ultkrool::ultkirby::ultlink::ultmetaknight::ultolimar::ultpacman::ultshulk::ultvillager::ultyoshi: (Charizard)

D :ultbowser::ultfalco::ulticeclimbers::ultdarksamus::ultwario::ultzelda:

E :ultmegaman::ultrob::ultrobin

F :ultbowserjr::ultsamus: (Ivysaur)

G :ultkingdedede::ultwiifittrainer:

(SS, S = Top Tier; A, B = High Tier; C, D= Mid Tier; E, F = Low Tier; G = Bottom Tier)
 
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Lodestar65

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I don't think :ultpokemontrainer: is going to be Brawl :ultmetaknight: or Smash 4 :ultbayonetta: levels of broken.
 
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DJ3DS

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So guys, I have a question: why is everyone rating ROB so low? Can we have a serious discussion about him?

The character has a bad disadvantage state.
This much we are aware of, though I'd argue the mechanical changes aren't likely to make it that much worse - a directional air dodge finally gives him some horizontal mobility in the air and ROB always had to recover low without air dodging to avoid being juggled anyway. Still, it's his defining worst trait.

The character has a significantly improved advantage state. I think it's important to really note how strong a potential buff his new down throw (which buries) is. For perspective, ROB was previously only getting Down Throw Up Air combos from a grab, for a total of 10% after the throw. Let's take a look at the other options he has in smash 4 after a pitfall:

- Up Smash (17% uncharged). This move has a hitboz on the ground to link into the top one which conveniently unburies, making this an extremely strong KO option from a grab at an earlier percent than beep boop.

Once N-Air starts unburying, the reduced knockback from burying state makes it a potent combo starter:

- N-Air to F-Air deals 15% and sets up for a jab lock opportunity at slightly lower percents
- N-Air, U-Tilt, U-Air deals 27% and works at medium percents

Obviously these are from Smash 4, but it's the current best barometer we have for how much of a buff this could be. Namely, he's been given much stronger reward off of grabs and possibly the best kill option off of one in the game.

Beyond this, his projectiles (and more specifically, their speed and range) look to be very good for edgeguarding due to how much more of a commitment air dodging them is now.

The characters neutral has been buffed by the return of glidetossing. Sure, it's not suddenly stellar but it's loss was one of his more noticeable nerfs in smash 4.

TL; DR: ROB has been given a huge new tool and the mechanical changes in the game seem to work out for him quite well. Why are people being so pessimistic in their placings of him (I've even seen a bottom 6!), when even at his worst in Smash 4 he placed 36/55 on the tier list, which is much closer to the middle?
 

Zinith

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Why are people rating Yoshi so low? I'd think the improved down air, back air, new ftilt (for possible ftilt > utilt combo) and bouncing eggs (to improve his range) would at least put him in B-tier...

Plus, I don't find it fair to judge him based on the scant footage we have of him
 
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Rhus

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It's worth noting that although most pros have said Fox is bad are not actual Fox players. Most actual Fox mains think he'll be just fine as the engine benefits him immensely.

Additionally, people have been saying Fox is bad since Brawl. Fox mains are a pretty hardcore bunch that really push their character so he always ends up better than people's first impression.
 

Izanagi97

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It's worth noting that although most pros have said Fox is bad are not actual Fox players. Most actual Fox mains think he'll be just fine as the engine benefits him immensely.

Additionally, people have been saying Fox is bad since Brawl. Fox mains are a pretty hardcore bunch that really push their character so he always ends up better than people's first impression.
I mean hell, his Brawl appearance (his worst game tier wise) is only bad in that he was only around upper mid tier instead of high or top tier and that was the game where all but 2 of the original 12 were D tier or lower (Pikachu and Fox being the exceptions with Pikachu in B tier and Fox in C tier) going by the wiki.
 

Standlord

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Still need a fix tier: :ultbayonetta:
High/Top tier::ultcloud::ultmarth::ultpokemontrainer::ultinkling::ultpikachu::ultsnake::ultkrool::ultsonic::ultlucina::ultmewtwo::ultzss::ultsheik::ultfox::ultmario::ultike::ultcorrin::ultdiddy::ultrosalina:
Mid to high tier: :ultchrom::ulttoonlink::ultmetaknight::ultyoshi::ultryu::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultluigi::ultlucario::ultdk::ultfalcon::ultolimar:
Mid tier: :ultbowser::ultrobin:ultgreninja::ultlink::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultmegaman::ultness::ultwolf::ultdoc::ultvillager::ultpichu::ultzelda::ultlucas::ultrob::ultyounglink::ultlittlemac:
Mid to low tier: :ultroy::ultridley::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultshulk::ultgnw::ultwario::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultkirby::ultpacman::ultpalutena::ultfalco::ultbowserjr::ultduckhunt:
Low tier: :ultganondorf::ultjigglypuff::ultkingdedede::ultwiifittrainer:
I'm sorry but trash tier: :ulticeclimbers:


Reasoning behind Ganondorf's and IC's placement (someone is gonna ask): Ganondorf looks better, but in the end he still has a very bad recovery and overall the same issues than in smash 4. IC's were good in Brawl only because of their infinite grab if I'm not mistaken, take that away from them and they have nothing. Bad recovery, useless specials and probably easy to kill Nana leaving Popo even more useless.

Please note that these are just my early impressions, if I put your favourite character in low/trash tier it's not because I hate them. Also, they are not exactly ordered whitin the same tier (so, I'm not saying Rosalina is the worst of the high/top tier, she obviously isn't, in fact, she is probably top 5 again).
 
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SwagGuy99

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I don't think :ultpokemontrainer: is going to be Brawl :ultmetaknight: or Smash 4 :ultbayonetta: levels of broken.
My reasoning behind this is that Squirtle is clearly a top tier with excellent combo potential and speed but lacks kill power. Ivysaur has camping abilities and power but terrible frame data, no recovery, and poor speed. Charizard is in the middle with good attack power, recovery, and ground speed but with poor air speed and below average frame data. If each Pokemon is utilized correctly there is no reason Pokemon Trainer should have a losing matchup.
 

Lodestar65

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My reasoning behind this is that Squirtle is clearly a top tier with excellent combo potential and speed but lacks kill power. Ivysaur has camping abilities and power but terrible frame data, no recovery, and poor speed. Charizard is in the middle with good attack power, recovery, and ground speed but with poor air speed and below average frame data. If each Pokemon is utilized correctly there is no reason Pokemon Trainer should have a losing matchup.
The problem will be that :ultpokemontrainer: players will have to master the three Pokemon. I do believe he will be a top tier, but not completely, :ultbayonetta: levels of broken.
 

Izanagi97

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The problem will be that :ultpokemontrainer: players will have to master the three Pokemon. I do believe he will be a top tier, but not completely, :ultbayonetta: levels of broken.
It's kinda like how Fox and Falco are top tier in Melee: Impressive kit and they are the hardest characters in the game to master IIRC
 

TMNTSSB4

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All I can assume based on gameplay I watched about this character...I think :ultpit:(and :ultdarkpit: by default) will be upper mid/low high tier. His moves actually connect and are fast, can kill better than in Smash 4 (killed a :ultganondorf: earlier than in the past and somewhat far away from the blastzone), GO pop out quicker, infinite looks better, and...he’s illiterate
 

aarchak

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I'm going to revise my previous tier list, and go with a different style than previously.

High Tier:
Upper::ultbayonetta::ultmarth::ultpikachu::ultpokemontrainer::ultsheik::ultzss::ultmario::ultdiddy:
Middle::ultsnake::ultsonic::ultcloud::ultmewtwo::ultinkling::ultluigi::ultrosalina:
Lower::ultcorrin::ultfox::ultlucario::ultlucina::ultmetaknight::ultryu::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultlucina::ultfalcon::ultgreninja:

Mid Tier:
Upper::ultjigglypuff::ultkrool::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink::ultlittlemac::ultlucas::ultness::ultpichu::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultroy::ultchrom::ultdarksamus::ultsimon::ultrichter:
Middle::ultbowser::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultike::ultkirby::ultridley::ultshulk::ultlink::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultwolf::ultyoshi:
Lower::ultdk::ultduckhunt::ultganondorf::ultmiifighters::ultpalutena::ultzelda:

Low Tier:
Upper::ultkingdedede::ultrob::ultmegaman:
Middle::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultrobin:ultolimar:
Lower::ultpacman::ultgnw::ultbowserjr:
 

Mogisthelioma

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S::ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultsheik:
A::ultzss::ultcorrin::ultmarth::ultrosalina::ultryu::ultdiddy::ultmewtwo::ultmario:
B::ultzelda::ultdk::ultfox::ultcorrin::ultkirby::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultfalcon::ulticeclimbers::ultsnake::ultness::ultluigi:
C::ultkingdedede::ultkrool::ultridley::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultsimon::ultmetaknight::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultinkling::ultpikachu:
D::ultlink::ultlittlemac::ultroy::ultrobin:ultwolf::ultyoshi::ultpalutena::ultmegaman::ulttoonlink::ultsonic::ultolimar::ultduckhunt:
E::ultshulk::ultbowserjr::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultganondorf::ultrob::ultsamus::ultwario::ultpit::ultpacman:
F::ultjigglypuff::ultpokemontrainer::ultgnw:

These are rough estimates and don't in any way reflect who I use or like in smash
 

aarchak

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S::ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultsheik:
A::ultzss::ultcorrin::ultmarth::ultrosalina::ultryu::ultdiddy::ultmewtwo::ultmario:
B::ultzelda::ultdk::ultfox::ultcorrin::ultkirby::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultfalcon::ulticeclimbers::ultsnake::ultness::ultluigi:
C::ultkingdedede::ultkrool::ultridley::ultwario::ultwiifittrainer::ultsimon::ultmetaknight::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultinkling::ultpikachu:
D::ultlink::ultlittlemac::ultroy::ultrobin:ultwolf::ultyoshi::ultpalutena::ultmegaman::ulttoonlink::ultsonic::ultolimar::ultduckhunt:
E::ultshulk::ultbowserjr::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultganondorf::ultrob::ultsamus::ultwario::ultpit::ultpacman:
F::ultjigglypuff::ultpokemontrainer::ultgnw:

These are rough estimates and don't in any way reflect who I use or like in smash
Wow, this is interesting. :ultzelda:&:ultdk: in B tier? :ultpikachu: in C tier? :ultpokemontrainer: in F tier? These placements are not where most people would put them, and this fascinates me. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's different.
 

Izanagi97

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All I can assume based on gameplay I watched about this character...I think :ultpit:(and :ultdarkpit: by default) will be upper mid/low high tier. His moves actually connect and are fast, can kill better than in Smash 4 (killed a :ultganondorf: earlier than in the past and somewhat far away from the blastzone), GO pop out quicker, infinite looks better, and...he’s illiterate
I know Mockrock was happy about how Pit is in Ultimate
 

TMNTSSB4

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I know Mockrock was happy about how Pit is in Ultimate
Anyone who loves to play Pit must love his changes (especially his “I never learned how to read” line...the best buff of them all)
 

Mogisthelioma

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Wow, this is interesting. :ultzelda:&:ultdk: in B tier? :ultpikachu: in C tier? :ultpokemontrainer: in F tier? These placements are not where most people would put them, and this fascinates me. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's different.
With the overall balancing of end lag, Zelda and DK get a heavy bonus to their neutral game, also considering their true combo grab follow ups. Maybe it was just me, but it looked like they nerfed Pikachu in terms of his combo game. Pokemon trainer may be higher up, but as long as we don't have serious footage I'm putting them in F tier simply because it's hard to get used to all 3, I'd rather tier place each individual pokemon instead. I probably should have unranked them.
 

DJ3DS

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Perhaps now people will listen and stop suggesting ROB will be one of the worst characters in the game.
 
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