First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

I have. There's nothing notable there, nothing that makes up for the combined cost of it's unsafeness and Roy's fragility. Lots of 'em are still easily DIable.

When it comes to jumping at somebody it's pretty poor since it leaves his bottom half exposed and has very little horizontal range. It's garbage at catching people above him because it's both pathetically weak and difficult to land. Marth or Corrin's are hard to land (doesn't stay out long, can't be spammed AKA whiffing means the opponent is landing) but are very powerful to make up for it, whereas something like Pit's is absurdly disjointed and stays out forever but doesn't really kill. Roy's is as hard to land as Marth's and even the strong hit is weaker then Pit's. Unless it was literally Sheik's Fair otherwise the trade-off of sucking as a normal Uair otherwise ain't worth it.

LOL. You lost me when you mentioned Marth and Corrin. Why are you putting Roy next to these two characters? What does that accomplish? When it comes to horizontal reach then I agree that the front of Roy's Uair just isn't good at all, but it's still pretty good for getting out of things like Mario's utilt strings and Sheik's Fair strings in some senarios. It has very good range behind Roy however, so his back must be facing the opponent when spacing Uair on shield (which also makes it different from Marth's and Corrin's Uair). The sweetspot also has about as much range as the early part of Pit's Uair if not more, so it's not as hard as you think to land. The reward is also very good at low to mid %s since if he lands with Uair he can get at least 20%, and that's if he doesn't extend the combo. And no, you can't DI out of it. Yeah, the sweetspot is weaker than Pit's. By 1% lol. The sweetspot is also extremely safe on shield since it has just 14 frames of landing lag. I can tell you're lying about watching Ryo's vids since I see no mention of Nair 1 confirms, which he does a LOT.

Oh, so you wanna talk puny hitboxes? I know you've seen Pit's hitboxes. They're "meh" or okay at best, if not bad minus a few moves. I get they have different purposes and have really good autocancels, but for real. His Fair is especially laughable. Uair is good though I'll give you that, but calling it ridiculously disjointed is pretty over-exaggerated, especially compared to other characters. But again, it's a completely different move, so comparing it to Roy's really doesn't prove a point other than "my character is better" which I really don't care about and doesn't relate to the topic at hand. It also makes you look very biased, which Halcy0n pretty much nailed. Who even does that lol.

 

Oh look someone bashing one person's character and at the same time praising their own.

Just an example... Naturally he's the one I know best. Really that simple guys.

LOL. You lost me when you mentioned Marth and Corrin. Why are you putting Roy next to these two characters? What does that accomplish? When it comes to horizontal reach then I agree that the front of Roy's Uair just isn't good at all, but it's still pretty good for getting out of things like Mario's utilt strings and Sheik's Fair strings in some senarios. It has very good range behind Roy however, so his back must be facing the opponent when spacing Uair on shield (which also makes it different from Marth's and Corrin's Uair). The sweetspot also has about as much range as the early part of Pit's Uair if not more, so it's not as hard as you think to land. The reward is also very good at low to mid %s since if he lands with Uair he can get at least 20%, and that's if he doesn't extend the combo. And no, you can't DI out of it. Yeah, the sweetspot is weaker than Pit's. By 1% lol. The sweetspot is also extremely safe on shield since it has just 14 frames of landing lag. I can tell you're lying about watching Ryo's vids since I see no mention of Nair 1 confirms, which he does a LOT.

Oh, so you wanna talk puny hitboxes? I know you've seen Pit's hitboxes. They're "meh" or okay at best, if not bad minus a few moves. I get they have different purposes and have really good autocancels, but for real. His Fair is especially laughable. Uair is good though I'll give you that, but calling it ridiculously disjointed is pretty over-exaggerated, especially compared to other characters. But again, it's a completely different move, so comparing it to Roy's really doesn't prove a point other than "my character is better" which I really don't care about and doesn't relate to the topic at hand. It also makes you look very biased, which Halcy0n pretty much nailed. Who even does that lol.

I know you have to face backwards... It's horizontal range like that is still not good.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's no early hit with smaller hitboxes on Pit's Uair. Right away it's a giant disjoint that extends past the animation, even. You can't challenge it ever with anything. Cloud's Dair flat-out loses when spaced properly, which yes isn't hard.

Pit's other hitboxes are overall good too. With things like Nair or Dsmash the hitboxes are smaller then Marth and Roy's but there's a bunch of other advantages like Dsmash's ~20 frames less endlag. Most moves just have good hitboxes.

You're the one starting this Pit vs. Roy talk... Pit's Uair does 1% more then the strong hitbox, 4% more then the weak hitbox you're almost always going to get, autocancels in a short hop, and stays out straight above him for 13 frames. Roy's is out for 8 and most of it is to his side. Pit's Uair, or most Uairs really, makes Roy's look like trash. That's the point.

Quit your hollow talk and present some evidence. The combos aren't reliable or easy to pull off. If they were you or any other person I've argued with would of brought them out.

Nobody believes in Roy. Ryo I seriously doubt thinks he's a good character... He just likes how he plays. Check out the SSB4 tier list discussion and ask what the more experienced and knowledgable players think, or just ask Pookum Gamer what answer he got.

 

Just an example... Naturally he's the one I know best. Really that simple guys.



I know you have to face backwards... It's horizontal range like that is still not good.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's no early hit with smaller hitboxes on Pit's Uair. Right away it's a giant disjoint that extends past the animation, even. You can't challenge it ever with anything. Cloud's Dair flat-out loses when spaced properly, which yes isn't hard.

Pit's other hitboxes are overall good too. With things like Nair or Dsmash the hitboxes are smaller then Marth and Roy's but there's a bunch of other advantages like Dsmash's ~20 frames less endlag. Most moves just have good hitboxes.

You're the one starting this Pit vs. Roy talk... Pit's Uair does 1% more then the strong hitbox, 4% more then the weak hitbox you're almost always going to get, autocancels in a short hop, and stays out straight above him for 13 frames. Roy's is out for 8 and most of it is to his side. Pit's Uair, or most Uairs really, makes Roy's look like trash. That's the point.

Quit your hollow talk and present some evidence. The combos aren't reliable or easy to pull off. If they were you or any other person I've argued with would of brought them out.

Nobody believes in Roy. Ryo I seriously doubt thinks he's a good character... He just likes how he plays. Check out the SSB4 tier list discussion and ask what the more experienced and knowledgable players think, or just ask Pookum Gamer what answer he got.

I don't care if that was your point, that's the point I was making lol. They aren't reliable or easy to pull off? I dunno man they're pretty easy even to me, I've gotten lengthy low/mid % combos many times before. Be a little more open minded dude. When it comes to the early hitboxes of Pit's Uair then yes, they are in fact smaller. The final hiboxes (on the last hit) are much larger. The sweetspot of Roy's Uair actually does have about as much range as Pit's initial hitboxes. Don't believe me? See for yourself.

No I'm not. You're acting like a child lol. "Pit's Uair, or most Uairs really, makes Roy's look like trash." Well first off, again, they're completely different moves used in very different situations. Why must I repeat this? There are much worse Uairs than Roy's as well. Nothing really makes his Uair seem useless in comparison imo though there are many, much better Uairs for sure. It's safe on shield, is an excellent low-mid % combo starter (and extender if you're able to land quickly afterwards) and has good range. Even the sourspot has it's uses. Second, that statement is really contradictive if what you're trying to do is prove that you weren't downplaying Roy while praising Pit, which is undoubtedly the case. No one even cares about Pit aside from those who main him.

 

I don't care if that was your point, that's the point I was making lol. They aren't reliable or easy to pull off? I dunno man they're pretty easy even to me, I've gotten lengthy low/mid % combos many times before. Be a little more open minded dude. When it comes to the early hitboxes of Pit's Uair then yes, they are in fact smaller. The final hiboxes (on the last hit) are much larger. The sweetspot of Roy's Uair actually does have about as much range as Pit's initial hitboxes. Don't believe me? See for yourself.

No I'm not. You're acting like a child lol. "Pit's Uair, or most Uairs really, makes Roy's look like trash." Well first off, again, they're completely different moves used in very different situations. Why must I repeat this? There are much worse Uairs than Roy's as well. Nothing really makes his Uair seem useless in comparison imo though there are many, much better Uairs for sure. It's safe on shield, is an excellent low-mid % combo starter (and extender if you're able to land quickly afterwards) and has good range. Even the sourspot has it's uses. Second, that statement is really contradictive if what you're trying to do is prove that you weren't downplaying Roy while praising Pit, which is undoubtedly the case. No one even cares about Pit aside from those who main him.

Nobody cares how often you can pull them off on other nobodies. Proof is in high level play. Try pulling this in the tier list discussion and you'll get laughed out. Who are you fooling?

Pit's hitboxes are objectively better. You can beat Cloud's Dair with Pit's Uair 100% of the time easy. Even Lucina's Uair only barely reaches past Pit's for maybe two or three frames, but then Pit's are much better diagonally.

Roy's Uair is a terrible Uair and a mediocre Fair. It's not good however you slice it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkXgH7eXEAA0FKf.jpg:large
Actually according to the scatterplot of viability to usage Pit's played more then Roy... Stow the "childish" claims and prove something for once.

 

LancerStaff DarkDeity15
Sorry to intrude, but could you perhaps private message each other? If neither of you used inflammatory language you would have a legitimate debate, which would be acceptable to have in the thread for the Sm4sh tier list.
Now your discussion might be discouraging people from posting here, because there is a 2 page long argument about hitboxes and tournament results!
I am not a moderator, so you can do whatever you want, but I was hoping to talk about Mii fighters in competitive play (just kidding).

That aside, has anyone actually played as a Mii fighter in a tournament? I know there are Puff and Ganondorf players...

 

LancerStaff DarkDeity15
Sorry to intrude, but could you perhaps private message each other? If neither of you used inflammatory language you would have a legitimate debate, which would be acceptable to have in the thread for the Sm4sh tier list.
Now your discussion might be discouraging people from posting here, because there is a 2 page long argument about hitboxes and tournament results!
I am not a moderator, so you can do whatever you want, but I was hoping to talk about Mii fighters in competitive play (just kidding).

That aside, has anyone actually played as a Mii fighter in a tournament? I know there are Puff and Ganondorf players...

I agree with this man. And yes, I think there might have been a Mii sword fighter main in the early days of SSB4 that I saw on vgbootcamp.

 

Nobody cares how often you can pull them off on other nobodies. Proof is in high level play. Try pulling this in the tier list discussion and you'll get laughed out. Who are you fooling?

Pit's hitboxes are objectively better. You can beat Cloud's Dair with Pit's Uair 100% of the time easy. Even Lucina's Uair only barely reaches past Pit's for maybe two or three frames, but then Pit's are much better diagonally.

Roy's Uair is a terrible Uair and a mediocre Fair. It's not good however you slice it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkXgH7eXEAA0FKf.jpg:large
Actually according to the scatterplot of viability to usage Pit's played more then Roy... Stow the "childish" claims and prove something for once.

Keep in mind I play against much more experienced players than me from time to time and still got things to work, even though I get outplayed anyhow. It's just basic Roy things. Any decent Roy would do them. Ryo and Sethlon do it all the time for example. The evidence is right there. Uair to Bair is completely inescapable if done correctly. 21% just from that. From Bair, you can get Uair and so on. If they DI down and away, you can DED or Nair 1 into grab, etc. Nair into Nair, assuming he gets the sweetspot both times then that's 29% right there (and it is possible to extend the combo). How about instead of insisting that Roy has no lengthy true combos, just open your mind a little? The lingering hitbox on Cloud's Dair isn't even that large (though it is quite disjointed) so it's bound to get out prioritized by many things, especially from the sides. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Pit's Uair comes out frame 10 but it covers a large area at once (unlike Roy) and is a multi-hit move, so it probably is a valuable tool for the MU. That's not to say Roy's Uair is trash. He can do the same although it's much tougher for him than it is for Pit (who no one talks about unless they're on stream or something).

Just so you know guys, I'm not the one who started talking trash here. This guy is notorious for being a hard headed pessimist. I'm just stating the facts. Roy isn't trash, and he has the tools to compete though he clearly isn't amazing or anything. Sorry to drag things on like this, I'll start PMing if they continue.

 

Keep in mind I play against much more experienced players than me from time to time and still got things to work, even though I get outplayed anyhow. It's just basic Roy things. Any decent Roy would do them. Ryo and Sethlon do it all the time for example. The evidence is right there. Uair to Bair is completely inescapable if done correctly. 21% just from that. From Bair, you can get Uair and so on. If they DI down and away, you can DED or Nair 1 into grab, etc. Nair into Nair, assuming he gets the sweetspot both times then that's 29% right there (and it is possible to extend the combo). How about instead of insisting that Roy has no lengthy true combos, just open your mind a little? The lingering hitbox on Cloud's Dair isn't even that large (though it is quite disjointed) so it's bound to get out prioritized by many things, especially from the sides. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Pit's Uair comes out frame 10 but it covers a large area at once (unlike Roy) and is a multi-hit move, so it probably is a valuable tool for the MU. That's not to say Roy's Uair is trash. He can do the same although it's much tougher for him than it is for Pit (who no one talks about unless they're on stream or something).

Just so you know guys, I'm not the one who started talking trash here. This guy is notorious for being a hard headed pessimist. I'm just stating the facts. Roy isn't trash, and he has the tools to compete though he clearly isn't amazing or anything. Sorry to drag things on like this, I'll start PMing if they continue.

You're not talking you're way out of this. Just prove it instead of writing another wall of text and get it over with.

Disjoint matters more then raw size. You can have long-ranged moves with small hitboxes, like DK's Fsmash. Pit's got hitboxes further away from him then Roy does, which is to say they're better. The blind spot in the middle of Pit doesn't even matter because nothing can fit in there when the stomach hitbox is a thing.

Why are you trying to call me childish when you're just trying to insult Pit at every turn? People talk about Pit way more then Roy anyway because he actually has results (check the chart again) and is an actual good character. They talk about him as much as characters like Villager, Lucario, and Megaman which is fair for how he performs in the west. Roy is nonexistent everywhere, and for good reason.

 

You're not talking you're way out of this. Just prove it instead of writing another wall of text and get it over with.

Disjoint matters more then raw size. You can have long-ranged moves with small hitboxes, like DK's Fsmash. Pit's got hitboxes further away from him then Roy does, which is to say they're better. The blind spot in the middle of Pit doesn't even matter because nothing can fit in there when the stomach hitbox is a thing.

Why are you trying to call me childish when you're just trying to insult Pit at every turn? People talk about Pit way more then Roy anyway because he actually has results (check the chart again) and is an actual good character. They talk about him as much as characters like Villager, Lucario, and Megaman which is fair for how he performs in the west. Roy is nonexistent everywhere, and for good reason.

You really got nothing from that? Lol.

I never hear anyone talking about Pit, like, ever. Earth is an exeption because he actually mains the character and always does well with him, naturally people will be talking about him. They don't talk about him as much as Villager though, that's for sure. I hear people talk way more about Roy than Pit, anyday lol.

Disjoint matters more than size? If a move has the same disjoint as another, the one with the bigger hitbox will more often beat out the other. So not always. And when have I said that Roy has a better Uair than Pit? Never. There's no point in bringing that up at all. I'm done with this discussion, nothing you're saying is really refuting anything. If anyone is trying to talk their way out of this, it's clearly you. I don't need to link you proof. Find it your damn self lol. I've provided my proof already.

I'm not wasting my time with this anymore because it seems like you'll just keep on going no matter what. There is no end to it with you lol. Just admit you were wrong about Roy not having lengthy true combos and kill confirms and it'll be over.

 

You really got nothing from that? Lol.

I never hear anyone talking about Pit, like, ever. Earth is an exeption because he actually mains the character and always does well with him, naturally people will be talking about him. They don't talk about him as much as Villager though, that's for sure. I hear people talk way more about Roy than Pit, anyday lol.

Disjoint matters more than size? If a move has the same disjoint as another, the one with the bigger hitbox will more often beat out the other. So not always. And when have I said that Roy has a better Uair than Pit? Never. There's no point in bringing that up at all. I'm done with this discussion, nothing you're saying is really refuting anything. If anyone is trying to talk their way out of this, it's clearly you. I don't need to link you proof. Find it your damn self lol. I've provided my proof already.

I'm not wasting my time with this anymore because it seems like you'll just keep on going no matter what. There is no end to it with you lol. Just admit you were wrong about Roy not having lengthy true combos and kill confirms and it'll be over.

Why should I believe you without any evidence? Why should, or would, anybody?

Not really, no. Pit comes up outside of Earth all the time in the tier list discussion mostly because he's the posterboy for the "honest" character.

You have it backwards. Disjoint is how far the hitboxes are hanging off the hurtboxes of the character. Hitboxes are just the bubbles. Two moves with the same disjoint but one with bigger hitboxes (extending inward, outwards is more disjoint) will trade equally or clash.

Who has a worse Uair then Roy? That's the question... I legit can't think of any.

Does a defense attorney have to do research for the prosecution's side because the prosecution is lazy? Hell no. Present it or you have no ground to stand on. I cannot be proven wrong without evidence to the contrary.

...I'm talking my way out of this? Explain.

 

I'm having some popcorn watching these arguments.

 

Why should I believe you without any evidence? Why should, or would, anybody?

Not really, no. Pit comes up outside of Earth all the time in the tier list discussion mostly because he's the posterboy for the "honest" character.

You have it backwards. Disjoint is how far the hitboxes are hanging off the hurtboxes of the character. Hitboxes are just the bubbles. Two moves with the same disjoint but one with bigger hitboxes (extending inward, outwards is more disjoint) will trade equally or clash.

Who has a worse Uair then Roy? That's the question... I legit can't think of any.

Does a defense attorney have to do research for the prosecution's side because the prosecution is lazy? Hell no. Present it or you have no ground to stand on. I cannot be proven wrong without evidence to the contrary.

...I'm talking my way out of this? Explain.

Anyone as blatantly ignorant and closed minded you are is a waste of my time and energy. I've already provided evidence, you're just too damn lazy to go on youtube and find it. It's a few clicks away, can't be that difficult. The Roy boards is a thing too. I don't need to spoon feed you links, and I won't. I know what a hitbox and a disjoint is and how they interact lol. When it comes to aerial attacks, the bigger hitbox will more often win and a trade will be less likely to occur. However, if the smaller hitbox is more disjointed, that's a different story of course. Oh and I forgot to mention that Lucina and Marth's Uair are almost twice as disjointed as Pit's. That's just a straight up lie lol. Even Roy's is significantly more disjointed. They have more disjoint horizontally as well.

I can't really think of any Uairs that are genuinely bad besides Little Mac's now that I think about it.

 

LOL. You lost me when you mentioned Marth and Corrin. Why are you putting Roy next to these two characters? What does that accomplish? When it comes to horizontal reach then I agree that the front of Roy's Uair just isn't good at all, but it's still pretty good for getting out of things like Mario's utilt strings and Sheik's Fair strings in some senarios. It has very good range behind Roy however, so his back must be facing the opponent when spacing Uair on shield (which also makes it different from Marth's and Corrin's Uair). The sweetspot also has about as much range as the early part of Pit's Uair if not more, so it's not as hard as you think to land. The reward is also very good at low to mid %s since if he lands with Uair he can get at least 20%, and that's if he doesn't extend the combo. And no, you can't DI out of it. Yeah, the sweetspot is weaker than Pit's. By 1% lol. The sweetspot is also extremely safe on shield since it has just 14 frames of landing lag. I can tell you're lying about watching Ryo's vids since I see no mention of Nair 1 confirms, which he does a LOT.

Oh, so you wanna talk puny hitboxes? I know you've seen Pit's hitboxes. They're "meh" or okay at best, if not bad minus a few moves. I get they have different purposes and have really good autocancels, but for real. His Fair is especially laughable. Uair is good though I'll give you that, but calling it ridiculously disjointed is pretty over-exaggerated, especially compared to other characters. But again, it's a completely different move, so comparing it to Roy's really doesn't prove a point other than "my character is better" which I really don't care about and doesn't relate to the topic at hand. It also makes you look very biased, which Halcy0n pretty much nailed. Who even does that lol.

Thank you. At least someone here knows something about Roy.

 

Anyone as blatantly ignorant and closed minded you are is a waste of my time and energy. I've already provided evidence, you're just too damn lazy to go on youtube and find it. It's a few clicks away, can't be that difficult. The Roy boards is a thing too. I don't need to spoon feed you links, and I won't. I know what a hitbox and a disjoint is and how they interact lol. When it comes to aerial attacks, the bigger hitbox will more often win and a trade will be less likely to occur. However, if the smaller hitbox is more disjointed, that's a different story of course. Oh and I forgot to mention that Lucina and Marth's Uair are almost twice as disjointed as Pit's. That's just a straight up lie lol. Even Roy's is significantly more disjointed. They have more disjoint horizontally as well.

I can't really think of any Uairs that are genuinely bad besides Little Mac's now that I think about it.

I'm not going on some wild goose chase for somebody else's argument. Either you're just that lazy or it doesn't exist... What do you think everybody else thinks?

Hitbox size has no direct effect on priority. Disjoint is literally all that matters. Remember disjoint is the measure of the farthest point a hitbox reaches, not the central point of a hitbubble. When two attacks collide in the air, nothing happens. It's only when a hitbox interacts with a hurtbox that anything happens.

It's not. Note that the two spinning blades are longer then Marth's sword... Diagonal matters more anyway because most moves aren't giant sweeping hitboxes.

Actually I'm pretty sure you're BSing at this point because for the most part Roy's hitboxes at max range are identical to Marth's when they share animations.

 

I'm not going on some wild goose chase for somebody else's argument. Either you're just that lazy or it doesn't exist... What do you think everybody else thinks?

Hitbox size has no direct effect on priority. Disjoint is literally all that matters. Remember disjoint is the measure of the farthest point a hitbox reaches, not the central point of a hitbubble. When two attacks collide in the air, nothing happens. It's only when a hitbox interacts with a hurtbox that anything happens.

It's not. Note that the two spinning blades are longer then Marth's sword... Diagonal matters more anyway because most moves aren't giant sweeping hitboxes.

Actually I'm pretty sure you're BSing at this point because for the most part Roy's hitboxes at max range are identical to Marth's when they share animations.

Fair, bair and Uair actually have different animations. A sword's length has little to do with an attack's range in the game anyways. For example, Corrin has a bigger sword than Marth, yet Marth's Fair has more range. Marth's Uair has much more range than Pit's either way you look at it and so does Roy. Talk about BS lol. Like I said, I already know how things work, I don't need an explanation. This is common Roy knowledge. Ask anyone playing Roy seriously and they'd tell you the same thing. Why would I lie lol. I even have a Roy main backing me up. I can get the other Roys over here as well if you want.

On a seperate note, if Hyuga is unable to come to the US anymore (or travel at all) due to recent happenings, I can see Toon Link dropping considerably in the tier list for a while since literally no one is as good as him with the character atm. The second best Tink would be CrazyCuban I believe.

 

Fair, bair and Uair actually have different animations. A sword's length has little to do with an attack's range in the game anyways. For example, Corrin has a bigger sword than Marth, yet Marth's Fair has more range. Marth's Uair has much more range than Pit's either way you look at it and so does Roy. Talk about BS lol. Like I said, I already know how things work, I don't need an explanation. This is common Roy knowledge. Ask anyone playing Roy seriously and they'd tell you the same thing. Why would I lie lol. I even have a Roy main backing me up. I can get the other Roys over here as well if you want.

They're the same animations with speed modifiers like 99% of customs.

Disjoint is disjoint, regardless of hitbox size. You've failed to explain otherwise.

Corrin's sword isn't bigger, and the hitboxes on Pit's Uair extend past the blades entirely... Marth's don't. Actually they're slightly less. It's just flawed logic. Here, actual proof that Pit's Uair is more disjointed overall for everybody else to see. http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-hitbox-visualization.432630/
http://smashboards.com/threads/dark-pit-pit-hitbox-visualization.436423/

The Roy community is largely seen as insane for things like what you're pulling. "I did X combo on my friend" literally means nothing to everybody outside of the bubble. Most combos talked about on the Roy forums are completely bogus because they're not properly tested which, again, erodes your credibility. Try pulling any of it in the tier list discussion and see what happens. http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-535#post-21328209
Here's a hint: The typical Roy community "I did a combo on my friend the other day" was the butt of a third of the April Fools jokes this year.

 

They're the same animations with speed modifiers like 99% of customs.

Disjoint is disjoint, regardless of hitbox size. You've failed to explain otherwise.

Corrin's sword isn't bigger, and the hitboxes on Pit's Uair extend past the blades entirely... Marth's don't. Actually they're slightly less. It's just flawed logic. Here, actual proof that Pit's Uair is more disjointed overall for everybody else to see. http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-hitbox-visualization.432630/
http://smashboards.com/threads/dark-pit-pit-hitbox-visualization.436423/

The Roy community is largely seen as insane for things like what you're pulling. "I did X combo on my friend" literally means nothing to everybody outside of the bubble. Most combos talked about on the Roy forums are completely bogus because they're not properly tested which, again, erodes your credibility. Try pulling any of it in the tier list discussion and see what happens. http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-535#post-21328209
Here's a hint: The typical Roy community "I did a combo on my friend the other day" was the butt of a third of the April Fools jokes this year.

Stop spreading misinformation. Not only is any of that true about the Roy community specifically, but the hitboxes do not expose the tip of Marth's sword. Corrin's sword is also in fact bigger, and no, Marth and Roy's animations for their aerials are different. Don't you have a copy of the game to compare them yourself? Anyone like that in the Roy boards are immediately told that they're wrong or that whatever they're implying wouldn't work. And LOL, not everyone I play are just friends, I go to tourneys as well. I've played online against Cat and Nimious who are both highly ranked in their respective regions and have played offline against players far more experienced than I am. I get bodied but still have been able to get combos to work on them. Trust me, they're properly tested as long as the competent players are around, and I actually made the metagame thread there just so you know. I don't add anything to the OP that either isn't a true combo or wouldn't work in a real match. If anything can be DI'd out of, then it's always mentioned or tested by me before being added. If it was said by a well known tourney player in the Roy community then It's not worried about as much. I lost credibility? Lol, you're the one trying to tell me lies.

 

I'm not going on some wild goose chase for somebody else's argument. Either you're just that lazy or it doesn't exist... What do you think everybody else thinks?

No one can argue about frame data without showing or linking the actual frame data. You can't say something like "It is really fast, like faster than [insert char here]". That is not proof, that is a relative comparison. Same with anything else. Although I initially agreed with your combos DarkDiety15, when you got into a completely other discussion, you haven't pulled any hard evidence. LancerStaff has... but its about Pit. I understand personal experiences, and I understand that generally people on a character forum all know what is or isn't a true combo. Apparently LancerStaff wants facts. Technically, your personal experiences aren't facts.

I am not entering this argument because I really don't care, but I think it is an interesting discussion. You both have been going in circles though.

 

Stop spreading misinformation. Not only is any of that true about the Roy community specifically, but the hitboxes do not expose the tip of Marth's sword. Corrin's sword is also in fact bigger, and no, Marth and Roy's animations for their aerials are different. Don't you have a copy of the game to compare them yourself? Anyone like that in the Roy boards are immediately told that they're wrong or that whatever they're implying wouldn't work. And LOL, not everyone I play are just friends, I go to tourneys as well. I've played online against Cat and Nimious who are both highly ranked in their respective regions and have played offline against players far more experienced than I am. I get bodied but still have been able to get combos to work on them. Trust me, they're properly tested as long as the competent players are around, and I actually made the metagame thread there just so you know. I don't add anything to the OP that either isn't a true combo or wouldn't work in a real match. If anything can be DI'd out of, then it's always mentioned or tested by me before being added. If it was said by a well known tourney player in the Roy community then It's not worried about as much. I lost credibility? Lol, you're the one trying to tell me lies.

Yeah, they're the same animation. Roy's Bair for example has less active frames because the part with the sword swing has a animation speed modifier... Tested this stuff day 1 man.

Never heard of any of those guys. Even then just pulling off a combo once or twice on a guy doesn't mean everybody will fall for it or that it's true. It needs to be performed on somebody with MU experience and lab time.

Lucina's sword extends past it's hitboxes for the entirety of the Uair animation. Anybody can see that. Remember the hard data says Marth and Lucina's hitboxes are the same outside of damage, too.

You could just, yaknow, post video proof instead of going in circles. People might actually believe you if it's good.

 

Yeah, they're the same animation. Roy's Bair for example has less active frames because the part with the sword swing has a animation speed modifier... Tested this stuff day 1 man.

Never heard of any of those guys. Even then just pulling off a combo once or twice on a guy doesn't mean everybody will fall for it or that it's true. It needs to be performed on somebody with MU experience and lab time.

Lucina's sword extends past it's hitboxes for the entirety of the Uair animation. Anybody can see that. Remember the hard data says Marth and Lucina's hitboxes are the same outside of damage, too.

You could just, yaknow, post video proof instead of going in circles. People might actually believe you if it's good.

I can assume this is what you're looking for, right?

 

I can assume this is what you're looking for, right?

Wooow, training mode combos. So useful. >_>

Were these even tested against a human?

 

Wooow, training mode combos. So useful. >_>

Were these even tested against a human?

you realize these are true combos, right?

 

you realize these are true combos, right?

The video doesn't really prove much... That was (until proven otherwise) a CPU.

Firstly, CPUs DI randomly even when set to stand. Even if you're testing for neutral DI (past the first hit that's LOL) it doesn't work.

Second, CPUs don't hitstun cancel, which means that even if by some miracle they DI'ed properly they won't airdodge out of anything that a human could easily.

Third, the combo counter is complete garbage. Some true combos aren't counted in it, and more importantly it counts things that absolutely don't work. Even things that wouldn't work on CPUs get counted.

Finally and most importantly, it's not a real match. Meaning that even if it were true it doesn't tell us how easy counterplay is and thus if it still matters after that.

If you don't believe me then ask in the mechanics and techniques discussion, or any decent smasher really. Training mode is t-r-a-s-h.

 

Wooow, training mode combos. So useful. >_>

Were these even tested against a human?

Yes, they were tested with DI and they were mashing airdodge and jump. It's possible to test this all on your own, which I did for the most part. No matter how an opponent DIs, there is always a follow-up Roy can go for that is inescapable. Here's my full explanation:

Remember the 52% combo I posted here earlier? Well, I've been labbing the DI and found a few things. After Uair to Bair (which is always true), the opponent can choose to either DI up, down and/or away. As long as they don't DI away or down, you can get sweetspot Uair to connect. If they do DI down or down and away, you can easily get Nair 1 to confirm, which as you know opens up more follow-ups. The best thing about this is that the opponent's DI is very react-able since Bair will put people in lots of hitstun, giving you plenty of time to decide which follow up you want to go for.

The %s where these combos are possible on average is about 17 to 30%, varying on the character of course. At higher percentages, simply ending it with Fair after Uair > Bair is the best option though it is possible to get other follow-ups and extend the combo.

Something I forgot to mention before is that if you Uair to Fair on the ground onto a platform on Battlefield, you can immediately Uair and decide what you want to follow up with from there. If you start on the side platforms and land on the top platform of Battlefield though, you can Nair 1 frame perfectly after Uair to Fair as long as you buffer it. This will work at later %s though because Fair is slower than Bair, and sweeps downward instead of up.

This is not including the many, many other possible combos that Roy can pull off.

If that's not proof enough, check out Mason Eliwood's youtube channel. https://m.youtube.com/user/SquareFan7

And if that's still not enough for you, Izaw is making an Art of Roy video.

 

Yes, they were tested with DI and they were mashing airdodge and jump. It's possible to test this all on your own, which I did for the most part. No matter how an opponent DIs, there is always a follow-up Roy can go for that is inescapable. Here's my full explanation:


This is not including the many, many other possible combos that Roy can pull off.

Better, but still not in a real match. A major problem, past the specifics of hitting a standing opponent with a Uair at a specific and short range even, is reacting to DI. Human reaction time plus input delay means something like Mario's Fsmash with a distinct f1 "tell" is still unreactable. The Roy needs to guess right every time past the first two hits, 18% max. That's not really impressive... Still a just training mode combo you'll basically never see in a tournament.

 

Better, but still not in a real match. A major problem, past the specifics of hitting a standing opponent with a Uair at a specific and short range even, is reacting to DI. Human reaction time plus input delay means something like Mario's Fsmash with a distinct f1 "tell" is still unreactable. The Roy needs to guess right every time past the first two hits, 18% max. That's not really impressive... Still a just training mode combo you'll basically never see in a tournament.

You don't need to react to DI after the first Uair. It's always a true combo and cannot be escaped with DI. And like I said, Uair has fairly good range and is safe on shield. And it's 21% not 18 lol.

These combos I was talking about were just recently descovered (mostly because nobody knew you could get so much off of Uair) but this can and will definitely see tournament use in the future.

 

You don't need to react to DI after Uair. It's always a true combo and cannot be escaped with DI. And like I said, Uair has fairly good range and is safe on shield.

"As long as they don't DI away or down [after Uair to Bair], you can get sweetspot Uair to connect. If they do DI down or down and away, you can easily get Nair 1 to confirm."

After the initial two hits it's a guessing game... Whiffing is very bad in this situation.

>good range
>was practically on top of Ike to start every combo

Yeah, no. At best it has poor useful range. Any mediocre anti-air could stop it cold too. Just because a move is safe on shield doesn't mean it's not a commitment.

All said it still doesn't solve Roy's problems with getting damage and kills safely.

These combos I was talking about were just recently descovered (mostly because nobody knew you could get so much off of Uair) but this can and will definitely see tournament use in the future.

That's a poor excuse after the way you talked... Don't go hyping up untested combos and get ****y when people ask for tournament footage of them. You could of saved yourself a lot of trouble by saying so to begin with.

 

"As long as they don't DI away or down [after Uair to Bair], you can get sweetspot Uair to connect. If they do DI down or down and away, you can easily get Nair 1 to confirm."

After the initial two hits it's a guessing game... Whiffing is very bad in this situation.

>good range
>was practically on top of Ike to start every combo

Yeah, no. At best it has poor useful range. Any mediocre anti-air could stop it cold too. Just because a move is safe on shield doesn't mean it's not a commitment.

All said it still doesn't solve Roy's problems with getting damage and kills safely.



That's a poor excuse after the way you talked... Don't go hyping up untested combos and get ****y when people ask for tournament footage of them. You could of saved yourself a lot of trouble by saying so to begin with.

That was an example. It was the easiest to get to so I used that over looking for specific moments in a tournament match, because I made the content recently.

And no it's not LOL. The DI is very react-able. Did you even finish reading it?

That video was just a presentation. I'm not going to space it perfectly just for your sake. And of course, never have I said it's wasn't a commitment.

At around 1:22 you can see Mason Eliwood get a neat footstool combo. He talks about footstool combos and kill confirms in a few other of his videos so be sure to check them out as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FEAhOJnd4RI

 

That was an example. It was the easiest to get to so I used that over looking for specific moments in a tournament match, because I made the content recently.

And no it's not LOL. The DI is very react-able. Did you even finish reading it?

That video was just a presentation. I'm not going to space it perfectly just for your sake. And of course, never have I said it's wasn't a commitment.

At around 1:22 you can see Mason Eliwood get a neat footstool combo. He talks about footstool combos and kill confirms in a few other of his videos so be sure to check them out as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FEAhOJnd4RI

I did read it and your numbers don't add up. Human reaction time is about 18 frames for something distinct with one option to react with, and Bair has 25 frames of endlag while you almost always attacked as soon as possible. Realistically you're not going to be able to determine what the launch angle is in 7 frames and react accordingly. You're just not going to get it every time.

And I already said that Roy sucks because his risk/reward is perpetually out of his favor. Space safely and do crap damage or go deep and get turned into a bloody smear for it. Another stupidly risky combo isn't helping him at all.

That's an online match... Even with the least lag possible there's still a gigantic difference between online and off. Anybody can tell you that.

 

I did read it and your numbers don't add up. Human reaction time is about 18 frames for something distinct with one option to react with, and Bair has 25 frames of endlag while you almost always attacked as soon as possible. Realistically you're not going to be able to determine what the launch angle is in 7 frames and react accordingly. You're just not going to get it every time.

And I already said that Roy sucks because his risk/reward is perpetually out of his favor. Space safely and do crap damage or go deep and get turned into a bloody smear for it. Another stupidly risky combo isn't helping him at all.

That's an online match... Even with the least lag possible there's still a gigantic difference between online and off. Anybody can tell you that.

Just stop already. You're pulling at straws at this point. And Bair has 16 frames of landing lag not 25 haha. Again, you're telling lies. Do you really think I wouldn't have knowledge of the characters I play? I'm helping evolve this character's metagame. I know what I'm talking about. Almost none of that even made sense LOL. Say what you want, but I'm done arguing with you.

 

Just stop already. You're pulling at straws at this point. And Bair has 16 frames of landing lag not 25 haha. Again, you're telling lies. Do you really think I wouldn't have knowledge of the characters I play? I'm helping evolve this character's metagame. I know what I'm talking about. Almost none of that even made sense LOL. Say what you want, but I'm done arguing with you.

...You used the Bair while rising and Fair'd before touching the ground. Bair has a faf of 36 and you hit on around f10. So 25 frames of endlag. Don't be so quick to call somebody a fool or you'll look a fool yourself.

 

...You used the Bair while rising and Fair'd before touching the ground. Bair has a faf of 36 and you hit on around f10. So 25 frames of endlag. Don't be so quick to call somebody a fool or you'll look a fool yourself.

That's just completely nonsensical rubbish lmao.

 

That's just completely nonsensical rubbish lmao.

What don't you understand? It's on Kuroganehammer. http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy
Hitbox active 8-10, faf or first actionable frame is 36. 35 frames from f1 of the move until you can move again, subtract 10 and there's your endlag. Ask the mechanics and techniques discussion if you still don't get it.

 

What don't you understand? It's on Kuroganehammer. http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy
Hitbox active 8-10, faf or first actionable frame is 36. 35 frames from f1 of the move until you can move again, subtract 10 and there's your endlag. Ask the mechanics and techniques discussion if you still don't get it.

the site you just gave us just proves that he's better than you say. Almost everything you've argued against is stated here; recovery being average, Roy's great speed, great pressure, great combos and kill potential. If you're going to random sites to back up your argument, first make sure that it's YOUR argument it's backing up

 

the site you just gave us just proves that he's better than you say. Almost everything you've argued against is stated here; recovery being average, Roy's great speed, great pressure, great combos and kill potential. If you're going to random sites to back up your argument, first make sure that it's YOUR argument it's backing up

Yes, this is true...

 

the site you just gave us just proves that he's better than you say. Almost everything you've argued against is stated here; recovery being average, Roy's great speed, great pressure, great combos and kill potential. If you're going to random sites to back up your argument, first make sure that it's YOUR argument it's backing up

The stats and junk are a joke, lmao.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mega Man
Megaman's style (and profile picture) is lemon lemon lemon.

Previously there was a skill stat though it was removed because people were complaining. Initially an Olimar said his was to low so KH drained the whole thing. Actually he's talked about removing them altogether because people put waaaay too much stock in them, which is to say any at all.

 

The stats and junk are a joke, lmao.
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mega Man
Megaman's style (and profile picture) is lemon lemon lemon.

Previously there was a skill stat though it was removed because people were complaining. Initially an Olimar said his was to low so KH drained the whole thing. Actually he's talked about removing them altogether because people put waaaay too much stock in them, which is to say any at all.

Can you do anything beside ***** for two pages about how Roy is ***?

 

Can you do anything beside ***** for two pages about how Roy is ***?

When people stop claiming he's any better then that. I'm tired of all the "wait wut I thought Roy was top tier" or "Roy is the best character because he can kill you in one hit lol this list is a joke" every single time somebody makes a tier list.

 

When people stop claiming he's any better then that. I'm tired of all the "wait wut I thought Roy was top tier" or "Roy is the best character because he can kill you in one hit lol this list is a joke" every single time somebody makes a tier list.

Who the hell even said that lol. It's almost unbelievable how much of a queer you are.

 

Who the hell even said that lol. It's almost unbelievable how much of a queer you are.

Page 16, post 629. Pookum Gamer said it too.

...Why are you trying to call me queer when you're ending every other sentence with "lol" and "lmao" while outright ignoring everything I've presented?