Fire and Lightning 2: DC Comics vs Pokemon Conquest Game over DC Comics Wins!

[Gargaglione]

Hey guys, there's n sensible reason in not joining the wagon at this point, unless you simply don't want a lynch to happen, which in that case, you're probably scum or an idiot, since that makes it literally impossible for Town to have a chance at winning.

 

[Dabuz]

Just going to say right now, lynch Hando. The wagon on me won't go through because i'm not scum.

 

[Gargaglione]

The wagon on me won't go through because i'm not scum.

They're arguing so hard to defend that notion aren't they?

Just can't refute

 

[Dabuz]

Trust me, unless you want this day to end in a no lynch, move to Hando.

 

[Gargaglione]

Trust me, unless you want this day to end in a no lynch, move to Hando.

That's what you're saying.

Hando, Raz, MiR, BLS, and Hollownote have to be the ones to decide that.

None of them have expressed any strong feelings towards lynching Hando (especially Hando)

 

[Make it Rain!]

Hi, sorry, we've been gone and all.

My other head's missing but I'mma at least read up and respond to some stuff.

 

[Dabuz]

Question, if my lynch becomes unattainable, how do -you- feel about moving towards Hando?

 

[Fandangox]

What situation would make Hando's lynch more likely than yours? For your lynch to go through 2 out of 6 standby players have to decide if they want to lynch you or not.

7 out of 11 players will have to decide if they want to lynch hando. In 25 hours.

 

[Gargaglione]

Question, if my lynch becomes unattainable, how do -you- feel about moving towards Hando?

I don't feel like he would be as good of a lynch as you, because you're actually active and scummy, and if you get away with that, it's a larger impediment to town than Hando, as he's being inactive.

 

[Gargaglione]

Question, if my lynch becomes unattainable, how do -you- feel about moving towards Hando?

And yea, your final desperate attempts are pretty pitiful. At least argue **** rather than be like

"Waaah, I'm town, lynch Hando instead!"

 

[Gargaglione]

And yea, your final desperate attempts are pretty pitiful. At least argue **** rather than be like

"Waaah, I'm town, lynch Hando instead!"

Or vote for yourself

 

[Fandangox]

I am fine with a Hando lynch, but I think its more favorable to lynch you before Hando. Handorin was VERY sucmmy, but his interactions (i.e lack of) with other players would make it hard to deduce much about a possible scumate.

 

[Dabuz]

I am fine with a Hando lynch, but I think its more favorable to lynch you before Hando. Handorin was VERY sucmmy, but his interactions (i.e lack of) with other players would make it hard to deduce much about a possible scumate.

T'is better to lynch scum with few connections then to lynch town at all.

 

[Fandangox]

Raz won't join because he doesn't want to bus his scummate unless he needs to and he's probably gonna stall the deadline

I read that one as a joke, but just to make sure, do you really think Raz and Dabuz might be scumates?

 

[Make it Rain!]

I'm not sure why people are of the opinion that town has to keep a consistent read throughout. Dabuz' 180 on us makes some sense given that I've been picking up his lack of hatred for my slot for awhile now. It's weird how he kept his vote on there but seeing those two votes push him the other direction might've been what he was looking for staying there.

For example, I'm more concerned about this:

Still making efforts, still finding similar results.

than I am this:

Nah, I was planning to get off later anyway if MiR continued to play the way he did after the whole Raziek dispute since I started to like the play. (See post #660)

Because the latter is clearly adjusting his read to situations while the former is just sitting on it for vagueness. And saying **** like this:

Get on the dabuz wagon with us, bro

In all seriousness though, this turn-around from you is sketching me out; it's making me think you're just doing it to look inconspicuous after we called out most of the MiR wagon being illegitimate.

And this isn't the first time dabuz has changed his play to steer away from what people said was scummy.

"dabuz is scummy he's scared to step on toes"

his future posts are more aggressive

"dabuz is scummy he's not scumhunting he's just asking questions"

his future posts show a drastic change in playstyle to one that looks like he's scumhunting

"this MiR wagon is so scummy"

dabuz reconsiders his Toed scumread and gets off the wagon

seems like it invalidates players from reconsidering their stances or progressing their reads naturally based on the situation of the game.

So, really, I'm not feeling the dabuz hate, not for this. If he's scum, this isn't why.

 

[Make it Rain!]

@Potassium

At first I noted that and thought something similar to you so that by itself isn't an important. I want to know what your read on Garg is without referring to the slip and why that is since I didn't find much else to explain your town read on him in this thread (unless there's something past post 600).

So, to ask again. What about Gova after talking to him changed your opinion on the slot?

my question is why you're dancing around his question dodging an answer. C'mon now

 

[Fandangox]

T'is better to lynch scum with few connections then to lynch town at all.

This of course assuming you are actually Town, with only Hollownote and BLS who seems to think you are.

 

[Gargaglione]

I'm not sure why people are of the opinion that town has to keep a consistent read throughout. Dabuz' 180 on us makes some sense given that I've been picking up his lack of hatred for my slot for awhile now. It's weird how he kept his vote on there but seeing those two votes push him the other direction might've been what he was looking for staying there.

For example, I'm more concerned about this:

than I am this:



Because the latter is clearly adjusting his read to situations while the former is just sitting on it for vagueness. And saying **** like this:




seems like it invalidates players from reconsidering their stances or progressing their reads naturally based on the situation of the game.

So, really, I'm not feeling the dabuz hate, not for this. If he's scum, this isn't why.

No, it doesnt

dabuz's action of taking his vote right off of you as soon as we called out the wagon on you being scummy is scummy because it's an action of self-preservation and an attempt to appease the consensus and be inconspicuous

 

[Gargaglione]

@ Make it Rain!
Point I'm trying to make is that we didn't just keep our read on dabuz for the sake of doing so. His actions continued to lead us to believe he's scummy.

Only thing that says otherwise is literally dabuz saying "Hey, i'm not scum!" and if you're actually swayed by that, I don't know what to tell you...

 

[Make it Rain!]

At most one of Hando and Hollownote. More likely Hando solely because he knows better to play than how he does. Definitely not both of them and while possibly none of them, neither of their plays are acceptable. I get goosebumps about Garg, I really do. Similar to how you have some things on Gorf but it's a feeling you can't shake, it's how I feel about Garg.

Don't let BLS sit around since he could be scum and Ryker is a bit more active than this normally.

Fando is asking good questions with followups so I think he can be trusted. MiR I already explained.

Why are you acting like you're about to die?

Why do you think Ryker is scum for lurking? I'm concerned about his lack of activity but the way he's handled his read on me is exactly how I expect TownRyker to handle reading me. It might be scum searching for an easy lynch off of something he knows he can get but I think that's less likely at the moment.

 

[Fandangox]

I'm not sure why people are of the opinion that town has to keep a consistent read throughout. Dabuz' 180 on us makes some sense given that I've been picking up his lack of hatred for my slot for awhile now. It's weird how he kept his vote on there but seeing those two votes push him the other direction might've been what he was looking for staying there.

For example, I'm more concerned about this:

than I am this:



Because the latter is clearly adjusting his read to situations while the former is just sitting on it for vagueness. And saying **** like this:




seems like it invalidates players from reconsidering their stances or progressing their reads naturally based on the situation of the game.

So, really, I'm not feeling the dabuz hate, not for this. If he's scum, this isn't why.

While I agree, and did post something similar earlier, I think in this particular case seems to act more out of self-preservation than improving the play. Like constructive criticism does affect how players help, but man that stuff usually happens between games, like the way it has been happening here its just odd, like its very clear and transparent.

 

[Dabuz]

Why are you acting like you're about to die?

Cause I feel like I am going to die :L

Why do you think Ryker is scum for lurking? I'm concerned about his lack of activity but the way he's handled his read on me is exactly how I expect TownRyker to handle reading me. It might be scum searching for an easy lynch off of something he knows he can get but I think that's less likely at the moment.

For Ryker it's just a suspicion, i'm not gungho about him as scum but I feel the need to point out that it's unusual for him to be so inactive if he's town. I can't comment on how the meta of him reading you relates to town but I can comment that I don't see much content from his slot. It's not like he's Raziek or Hando, slots known to be inactive.

 

[Make it Rain!]

@ Make it Rain!
Point I'm trying to make is that we didn't just keep our read on dabuz for the sake of doing so. His actions continued to lead us to believe he's scummy.

Only thing that says otherwise is literally dabuz saying "Hey, i'm not scum!" and if you're actually swayed by that, I don't know what to tell you...

The fact that being wrong and changing your mind isn't scummy is why I say that. Of some of the backpedals in this game, that's one of the more natural ones based on the sense I'm getting off of his posts. You don't throw your vote on me and then turn around and make a giant post about Potato because you want me dead. That was a 180 coming a mile away and if this game is going to continue dislike people backing off (calling out Potato disliking us backing of of BLS as well) when it makes sense for them to do so, I'mma keep calling attention to this. That's not a scummy thing to do.

Lemme finish reading his other crap, but the LM meta and this just seem like calling out dabuz for the sake of calling out dabuz. That wagon's been whack for awhile now.

 

[Dabuz]

Ok, maybe I shouldn't say Raziek is inactive, but less active that most slots.

 

[Make it Rain!]

While I agree, and did post something similar earlier, I think in this particular case seems to act more out of self-preservation than improving the play. Like constructive criticism does affect how players help, but man that stuff usually happens between games, like the way it has been happening here its just odd, like its very clear and transparent.

While I'm rereading, show me. Get quotes. Put it together and show me the progression.

 

[Make it Rain!]

I meant in regard to the wagon jump. Inactivty = non-indicative. Jumping onto a wagon like he did = red flags

he's been scumreading us for awhile tho...

 

[Gargaglione]

The fact that being wrong and changing your mind isn't scummy is why I say that. Of some of the backpedals in this game, that's one of the more natural ones based on the sense I'm getting off of his posts. You don't throw your vote on me and then turn around and make a giant post about Potato because you want me dead. That was a 180 coming a mile away and if this game is going to continue dislike people backing off (calling out Potato disliking us backing of of BLS as well) when it makes sense for them to do so, I'mma keep calling attention to this. That's not a scummy thing to do.

Lemme finish reading his other crap, but the LM meta and this just seem like calling out dabuz for the sake of calling out dabuz. That wagon's been whack for awhile now.

Dude, he's had contradictory logic and has been trying to appease anyone who challenges him...
It's not the same thing as genuinely changing your mind.

 

[Make it Rain!]

Yeah. Maybe I didn't make it clear.

Hando is not an active poster, nor does he like to explain things, doesn't mean it should be excused and he should NEVER get to late game (or really past Day 1 but I doubt people will ever policy lynch that). However you can't get anything but null from that because people let him always play that way.

However I don't think him throwing a vote on people like the way he did with MiR is even close to part of his normal play.

Normally I see this type of behavior thrown at marshy, not Hando.

 

[Make it Rain!]

Dude, he's had contradictory logic and has been trying to appease anyone who challenges him...
It's not the same thing as genuinely changing your mind.

I never said I liked how he came to the conclusion of a townread on Potato, did I?

 

[Make it Rain!]

I also have never played a game with Handorin scum IIRC. I am not going to let the day end without putting him in the spotlight after that vote.

So any point about meta seems invalidated, does it not? You only have half the picture.

 

[Dabuz]

Hold your questions about my stuff on Hando till you get to post 946, since a lot of questions will probably be answered somewhere in between those posts.

 

[Gargaglione]

I never said I liked how he came to the conclusion of a townread on Potato, did I?

This isn't in reference to Potato

-It's in reference to the content of his fixation on me,
-His long analytical, try-hard wall-posts done out of request
-His jump off of the wagon on you

 

[Gargaglione]

This isn't in reference to Potato

-It's in reference to the content of his fixation on me,
-His long analytical, try-hard wall-posts done out of request
-His jump off of the wagon on you

Oh, and his
"Hey! Look at Hando and not me"

 

[Make it Rain!]

Hi, European head here to save Lexia's pretty face.

Don't think Dabuz lynch is good today, he looks bad over scummy, but will read more in depth and talk with my partner. For now, would definitely prefer a Handorin lynch.

 

[Make it Rain!]

I dunno guys.
Hando is a pretty easy target for dabuz to use as a scapegoat.

Like, this ****. This is what gets me. I want to go along with the idea that a dabuz wagon is good but then I just see **** like this and it gives me the impression you ****s don't care what he's doing, you just spin it into a scummy light all the time and it makes me hate the wagon. It doesn't feel like you guys actually think he's scum for solid reasons.

 

[Make it Rain!]

This isn't in reference to Potato

-It's in reference to the content of his fixation on me,
-His long analytical, try-hard wall-posts done out of request
-His jump off of the wagon on you

I mean he wall-posts regardless of alignment. I've played in more games with dabuz than LM, there's a reason I generally refuse to pay much attention to that slot. I've already discussed I don't mind his jump off my wagon because I disliked his vote there more than him being on it. I haven't noticed his fixation on you outside of gutfeels.

Lemme just circle back to the "this **** feels weak" thing and then reiterate to lynch hando/hollow instead as their votes were way worse than his unvote

 

[Make it Rain!]

Like

I was thinking this, but conversely what do you think about Hando being a target scum dabuz uses to look good on a flip? That page was really feeling unwarranted.

really, it's like a competition of who can come up with the worst reasons for dabuz to be scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Just going to say right now, lynch Hando. The wagon on me won't go through because i'm not scum.

What are you even saying? You're the most popular wagon, people aren't just going to let you live cuz... Well you're saying you're not scum. Nobody (hopefully) on your wagon atm will budge from it, so that'll mean that no lynch will occour, which I at least definitely don't want.

Trust me, unless you want this day to end in a no lynch, move to Hando.

He's flailing right guys?

I never said I liked how he came to the conclusion of a townread on Potato, did I?

I'mma just come out and ask, you down to join the wagon? Feels like you're ambivalent to join but you're not giving a solid stance on it. If not where would you rather look?

 

[Make it Rain!]

Gonna bring up the posts that Potassium made on Dabuz's play.

His http://smashboards.com/threads/fire...n-conquest-day-1.346599/page-21#post-16274237 832

The only I'd probably disagree with here is when Potassium asked to Dabuz to assign leans to his readlist, claiming that giving null reads is a co-op out. Sometimes you just get a null read from people not necessarily a co-op out, just means you can't really tell if they are town or scum, I don't see anything wrong on a Null read provided you elaborate on it.

Other than that however I don't disagree with anything else there, Potassium does make a point of Dabuz just posting questions to who he thinks are scum and not directly following up/tackling them. Only time he went on someone hard was Garg, and we all agreed that was just a very weird push, and his weaker stance on MiR which he abandoned when we all pointed out how badly it looked after the last two wagon jumps.

More neatly presented on his #872, on Dabuz.



To go on the chronology of this.

"dabuz is scummy he's scared to step on toes"

Goes after that weird push on Garg.

"dabuz is scummy he's not scumhunting he's just asking questions"

Pushes harder on Gorg, votes MiR.

"this MiR wagon is so scummy"

Abandons wagon, saying he didn't feel as good about it.

Vote: Dabuz

This though, this is actually solid. Fanny automatically loses that competition because this post makes me like that dabuz wagon more

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh, ninja

Like

really, it's like a competition of who can come up with the worst reasons for dabuz to be scum.

You actually think that's a reason for me to think dabuz is scum? Are you, like, trying to town read him or something?